[loramin]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Still would take Regen over FSI.

Genuine question (not an edgy insult): have you played a Torpor Shaman? I ask just because I honestly find it very hard to believe that anyone who has would give a crap about regeneration. They might only give two craps about FSI, but that's still > the less than one crap they'd give about regen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Think of it this way: how many Torpor Shaman do you see wearing fungis? Not many, and if you asked I'd guess most are still wearing them from their pre-Torpor days and just haven't gotten anything better yet. A fungi adds more regen than Iksar/Troll racial adds, and yet the vast majority of Torpor Shaman I know don't wear one because the regen is less useful to them than some stats or a clickie (eg. the one from the Velious Armor chest piece).

But in contrast if you're soloing a Western Wastes dragon, or a named in the Crypt in Seb, or any other hard mob, reducing the chance of being stunned does matter. Even if it doesn't reduce that chance by that much (there's still other ways Ogres can be stunned), stuns are scary. When Torpor Shaman solo they need to keep re-casting Torpor periodically or they die, and a single stun can be all it takes to turn a successful solo for some phat lewtz into a long annoying corpse run.

And I say all this as a Barbarian Shaman with zero skin in the game (of Iksar/Troll vs. Ogre).

Originally Posted by Rathnir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 60 Shamans regain so much mana and HP with their kit (Torpor + Canni 4) that other forms of mana/hp regen are comparatively weak.

Fungis, Regrowth, Racial regen - these aren't drops in the bucket - they're buckets in the ocean (at 60)

First off, let me say that I appreciate you taking the time to crunch the numbers and trying to look at this objectively; most posters are fine with saying more or less "I feel this way so I must be right" [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And the stuff you wrote above is absolutely correct. But I do want to point out just one small thing I think you're missing:

Originally Posted by Rathnir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FWIW: If you sit on all 4 ticks of Torpor, you gain the 22/tick meditate x4, which is 88 mana - slightly over the value of a Canni 4, as well as not costing the 148 hp to cast the 5th time.

...

If all the hitpoints are consumed with 4 more cannibalizes (~2 more ticks) we have a net positive of 656 mana over 7 ticks.

You're looking at long-term efficiency ("If ... 4 more cannibalizes"), but that's not what matters in a fight. In a fight if you take the time to cast four more cannibalizes your're going to lose a lot more HP than you're accounting for: you're going to lose however many HP the mob beats out of you while you spend the time to cast those 4 cannibalizes.

This is why spamming Cann with a Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring (or similar clickie) is so much better than Cann-dancing for a Torpor Shaman (and arguably even before). Dancing is more efficient, but spamming gets you more mana to win the fight when you need it. To put it another way, in a fight speed matters and efficiency doesn't, and after a fight when you have infinite time it really doesn't matter if you spam, cann-dance, or just sit on your ass and meditate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]