[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a good point Loramin, but when the prime determiner of repression is a non gender attribute like class (or in the new world, more likely race? I hear you guys over the pond are pretty racist? Is that true, or is that just me being racist?) then I guess it is easy to miss that bigger picture perspective.

America is a big place, so I definitely wouldn't make generalizations like "you guys over the pond are pretty racist". Even in the south the vast vast majority of people aren't racist (at least not overtly so).

But then you've got institutionalized racism. For instance, even black cops pick on black people more because they, like everyone else, have been trained by society to think "criminal" when they see a black person. That sort of racism is definitely pervasive in America ... but I don't think other countries escape it either. Are Muslim immigrants treated equally to other UK citizens?

Ultimately, in America or anywhere else, as long as there are racial disparities in a society that society will need minority rights groups to push it towards greater equality.

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Their may always be feminism -- but there will also be a point where it literally causes more harm than good.

How can fighting for equality ever do (real) harm? Like sure if men get paid twice as much as women, and society corrects that, then men are "harmed" by getting less pay ... but every cent they lose goes to a woman who (by definition) deserved it more, so overall it's a net gain for society. If women started making more than men then that would be real harm ... but that wouldn't truly be feminism because feminism is about fighting for equality, not for either gender to be better off.

For historical comparison purposes, when did the Irish/Italian/Scottish/etc. rights activists jump the shark and start causing harm by advocating for their rights? I'd argue never, because legitimately fighting for equality doesn't hurt anyone except the people benefiting from the unfair system. And then once they achieved true equality in society they stopped being necessary, which is why no one ever hears about Irish-American equality groups in America anymore.

Hopefully someday the same will be true for feminists and minority advocates ... but I don't see that day coming anytime soon.

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The power struggle is about class and money...not men and women.

I'd maybe express that instead as "the power struggle (between men and women, dominant races and minority ones, etc.) is expressed differently depending on the class/money of the participants." A woman from a rich background is likely going to respond to harassment differently from a woman who is poor, but both definitely experience harassment caused by a power imbalance.