[Rygar]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is 100% on the Devs to create a server that keeps a high population, not the community. Red started with bugs, cheats and soon made server rules that made the raid scene all about zerging.

You can't expect a community to go against the natural rules of the server to create an environment that is favorable for everyone. The server rules do not promote multiple competing guilds. There is no penalty on death and you can't expect the server to pretend to care about PvP death just because that makes the server better.

The issue with Red is that the rules favor zerg mentality. It is a winner takes all environment so there can only be 1 end game raiding guild. You can't have 3 guilds in an area trying to do a first to engage. The zerg kills everyone else and takes all the content. There is no penalty on PvP death so the zerg will just overwhelm everyone else. Once the zerg wins they can sit on corpses and camp them until people get frustrated and quit for a couple days. It is why TMO had no chance on Red. Once a guild has taken the top spot there is nothing another guild can do until the number 1 guild gets banned or quits.

Top guilds:

Nihilum - banned
Holocaust/Empire - banned/quit
Apex - Current guild

Current issue with Red that will never be fixed by a community:

60 members of a guild looking at 20 members of a competing guild full of vets and highly skilled players. The 60 know they could take the 20 but might suffer 2-3 deaths a piece until their zerg finally overwhelms the 20. The zerg will not hesitate to throw away 2-3 deaths each to beat the 20, so the tight group of highly skilled 20 members eventually join the zerg if they want to do content and progress their character. You have to join the zerg no matter how much you dislike them or you just quit the server.

There is a way to fix it.

You can have item loot so small PvP guilds that focus on high kill/death ratios have something to do. This promotes anti-pk guilds. Top guilds wanting to zerg will not work because the losers that keep dieing over and over to get a dragon will lose items.

You can also hardcode it with teams but there still has to be some penalty on PvP death. Even with hardcoded teams people must have a need to protect their team from deaths.

I played on Red during Live (Rallos Zek), talking early RZ when they can loot your weapons. Even after disallowing weapon loot, item loot was a huge barrier to entry. Worked my ass off to get a bronze breastplate on my warrior, got like nuked out in the karanas before my group knew what was up and some naked wiz or whatever loots my BP (probably right into a bag, so retribution is impossible).

It was super stressful and in the end I gave up and joined a blue server, made it to maybe level 34 on a human warrior. I had some fun times hunting griefers in the early levels around crushbone and steamfont, but it got annoying as you progressed and your item values increased.

Other guildies that played zek recalled melee's bagging their gear when their HP started dropping too low. No Drop loot for melee's was real hard to come by early.

Maybe item loot helps in the situation you're describing (at the end game), but I think it would make a huge barrier to entry for new players. Even twinking a character will be tougher (no fungis, haste, crafted / dropped armor sets would be safe). Maybe a hybrid of allowing item loot only 55+ (if you the killer are 55+ and the slain are also 55+).

I still think this presents balancing problems, people at the top as you say will stay at the top with better no-drop items (haste, big resist pieces, etc) as the lower levels try to claw their up in junkier gear.