Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedmelon
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Raev,
You just need to learn to ask the right questions. He hasn't argued that the programs work or that he even likes them. In fact he's indicated quite the contrary. The two of you are debating different things. You are arguing that what he wants has failed. He is arguing that is not what he wanted. It seems to me you both agree that the programs are shit and ought to be scrapped. The difference is what you each think should be done instead of what we have. Why not ask what he thinks should be done? Right now you are debating phantoms.
Alarti,
Do you have examples of social programs that you think work, or that you would like to see? What do you think needs to be done and how? It seems to m that you would like to see some form of basic income. What about price controls, tax, personal property and social reparations? You've previously indicated a preference for socialism or even communism, but have yet to define those terms as you understand them. Given your unconventional (at least in the us and on these boards) view of left/right, expanding on your views might help.
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I think the programs as they are implemented are crap not the idea of social programs.
Socialism is a very very very broad term. However, the window-lickers on this forum just label socialism as one bad thing to constantly guard against. The USA is a socialist country. Just about every country is a socialist country to some degree. It's a spectrum... and I'm not talking about the autism spectrum that Santa, Raev, and Daywolf are clearly deep into.
To say I like socialism is akin to saying yes, I like humanity and its ability to better itself through cooperative effort.
I never expressed a like for communism however. Communism is not a system designed for humans who are slaves to biological function. Just like Ayn Rand's version of libertarian doesn't take into account basic humanity.
Taxation is necessary it just needs to be put to better use. Taxation is best served improving the lives of the taxpayer, meaning education, infrastructure, health, and retirement. We don't need 600 billion dollars spent on the military especially since no sovereign country is going to attack us.
If you mean price controls as is preventing price gouging by companies with monopolies or near monopolies than yes that is necessary... Take pharmaceutical companies as an example.
Social reparations... assuming you mean racial reparations etc. I think its an idiotic term. Yes the USA did a bad thing... No I'm not responsible for that bad thing.
However, the end goal of the government should be the betterment of citizens lives. The solution to years of racism and slavery plus lack of societal and economic integration is not handing out a check. This solution isn't about race though its about all the disenfranchised or impoverished, education and reduction of poverty are the best means for the upward mobility of a social class.
The idea that everyone has equal chance to climb the socioeconomic ladder is a lame myth. People who grow up in poverty have very very limited resources to improve their lives.
An often un-thought of fact: If you want to save money on good a person who has access to cash can buy goods in bulk. I poor person living paycheck to paycheck has to buy at top prices always. Being poor is expensive.
In any case Companies are not job creators. Consumers are job creators, purchasing power is what makes jobs, and removing poverty is the best way to create jobs, increase wages, and improve quality of life for every citizen across economic classes.