[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by john_savage1982 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not exactly the meaning of placebo effect but you highlight almost exactly what I am talking about. If a man has schizophrenia we tend to treat him as if his "delusions" aren't real and that the experience is related to a "problem" with a physical structure "the brain". If a person doesn't function in the same way as the majority then it's assumed there is something wrong that must be fixed. Further, any experiences related to definable problems must fall into the same category and is thus is also illegitimate.

What you're missing is religion isn't about the definable and the logical. You could create whatever explanation you want for why people shouldn't believe in things that don't appear to exist in our 5 senses but to do so would be to attack religion from an incompatible viewpoint. Religion is about the feeling of connecting with the outside. Outside the body and mind. For example - whether you recognize it or not, the type of faith involved in religion is no different then accepting that others have minds distinct from your own. How do you really know that outside your own mind that other humans possess the same sort of consciousness. Or, more basic, that the colors you see in your experience are the same colors that others see in their experience. It may be the same light wavelength but you don't know the experience of the other. This is exactly the heart of religion. Despite the uncertainty and perceived differences, people come together to profess believe in a common idea. This process connects people with the outside.


I still don't see why many of you have such faith in the ability for the state to create sound laws and why you have such faith in them to follow them. Why is murder illegal? Better yet, to what extent have you all studied the formation of the social contract? I have a feeling that many of you don't understand that your atheist moral system is actually grounded in very deep religious thought. Consider what your state (I use this in the abstract sense) has provided for you - education, language, culture, protection. I feel many of you take for granted the thousands of years of social development that led to the formation of states. If you spend enough time reading about the formation of modern states you might realize that religion is an integral part of the functioning of a state.


Lastly, atheism functions just like a religion. Instead of believing in the extra-worldly you believe in only the worldly. However, whether you want to admit it or not, you still take a leap of faith to accept that your senses are legitimate, that you aren't being somehow fooled by the natural world, and that science can somehow provide answers. What makes you believe your senses are real? Because they allow you to survive? Why live? What makes your existence as it is worthwhile?

Religion is about expanding your feelings to understand these sort of questions that aren't about figuring out how the physical world functions. This relates back to my original posts. There is a difference between understanding and feeling. They're different modes of thought. In my observations, atheist tend to overemphasize the importance of thought in comparison to feeling and in doing so entirely discount an entire aspect of being human.

Your ideas on the origins of western philosophy and civilization are off by a few hundred years. The Greeks were not Jewish or Christian. Your attempts to ask pre-Descartes philosophical questions are rather silly.

Okay, I just realized I hate this thread. Have fun with Philosophy for Dummies.

Dummies.