[YendorLootmonkey]

Sorry for the late response... I was off banging supermodels in the back seat of my super expensive car while studying for my bar exam, or whatever we usually tell RNF instead of the sad, masturbatorial truth. Right now, I'm cringing while my girlfriend is giving me the play-by-play from the bathroom across the hall while she tries inserting a Diva Cup for the first time, so I'll try to block that out and take my mind off it by addressing your questions...

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Isn't a fact under half of TMO membership joined Forsaken.

TMO is a Class C guild. TMO exists.
Forsaken is a new guild.

Okay, I will grant you that one... I forgot who I was dealing with and should have phrased it "A large majority of Forsaken consists of former TMO."

This is implied by the guildleader's statement.

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forsaken was formed for two main reasons: to finally remove the stigma of the tag we formerly held and at the same time keep the community of players together that I have considered family for years. This being the case, nearly everyone who was a part of this family was, of course, welcomed into our new home. The previous guild split into four factions, some to red, some who stayed, some who quit all together, and the remainder who came to Forsaken.

The implication is that TMO split off into Forsaken. I will take this one step further and state that it is FACT that without this exodus of TMO players, there would be no Forsaken right now.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What punitive measures was Forsaken or TMO under at that time? None--Fact Didn't cherry pick punitive measures. Punitive measures are a punishment. TMO was not being punished for anything... therefore nothing punitive to transfer.

We were simply agreeing that punitive measures an original guild is under should follow members of that guild if they were to break off and form a new guild. I was never stating that this was the case here.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forsaken reformed as a new guild with no kill history. TMO still exists with over half of its original membership.

You're focused on the premise that changing guildnames should allow a subset of players to circumvent the server rules (specifically the one about the cooldown period going from Class C to Class R.)

If TMO was Class C and members from TMO move en masse to form another guild, they can't just escape the set of restrictions and rules that apply to TMO, a Class C guild. Doing so would allow any guild to split off to circumvent server rules that apply to that original guild, and clearly that is against the spirit of the rules.

Hold on, my girlfriend shoved that damn thing too far up and can't get it out... I'm not sure what she wants me to do about it. BRB.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why didn't you answer the pertinent questions I asked you about guild splitting examples?(Cherry picking)

Please stop diverting and dodging these questions.

Punitive measures are assigned to all individuals in a guild class restrictions should be assigned to guilds. Are you are saying that if a TMO member apped to Taken and can now not raid class R mobs for 30 days.

Of course I'm not saying that. Stop being dense. I fail to see how a TMO member apping to Taken falls under the same situation as a large number of TMO splitting off to form another guild, Alarti. Come on now, you aren't even trying.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is the majority of Forsaken the majority of TMO? If TMO instead splintered into 3-4 guilds...are all those guilds Class C? Where do you draw the line?

If TMO splinters into 3-4 guilds, which wouldn't have otherwise been in existence without those TMO members (i.e. they are compromised mostly of former TMO), then yes, they should remain Class C until they have completed the cool-down period. If it's that important to them to split into 3-4 guilds, start anew, and participate in Class R, then they can follow the rules to step down into Class R instead of trying to circumvent it by splintering. As someone else pointed out, this is the exact same thing TMO was threatening to do during the Class C/R raid discussions to spite the Class R guilds, so why are you acting surprised everyone is calling them on it now?

Based on your interpretation of the rules, TMO could splinter into 4 guilds, designate these "new guilds" as Class R instantly, compete for Class R targets up until they got locked out, and then reform into TMO and resume killing Class C mobs. The cooldown period kills that loophole, so it clearly must apply here.

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Forsaken instead merged with Taken... would they be Class R or Class C? If Forsaken merged into A-Team instead of taking a new guild name would they be Class R or Class C?[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Again, this situation is not a merger... please keep it apples to apples in your hypothetical situations instead of grasping at straws. This is a formation of a guild comprised mostly of former members of a Class C guild, without whom this newer guild would not exist today. But, to answer you, I would imagine that if a Class C and Class R guild were to merge and wanted to determine their new Class, the intelligent thing to do instead of starting to kill Class R mobs, would be to ask Rogean to make a call so there would be no backlash if they were to assume wrongly.

The funny thing is, IB did the same thing to you guys by forming up Transatlantic Rampage and then departing from their VP rotation agreement, claiming they were a "new guild" so the agreement didn't apply to them. Pretty sure the common response from TMO was not "Oh hey, yeah... totally different guildtag... you got us good. Clever thinking!"

Now, if you'll excuse me, sounds like my bathroom looks like a murder scene I have to go clean up. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]