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Originally Posted by Raev
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What's strange to me, though, is that as the group size shrinks the Knights don't really get better even though they are nominally more versatile.
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Players on p99 pretty much refuse to see knights in any role besides tank. Most knights here never learn to pull well, it's hard to learn something you never practice. A paladin can do pretty well in a puller+CC role, but if you've ever got paladin & warrior together the only group deployment that is not immediately rejected is "paladin tank, warrior go zerker and dps". I mean, do these people not understand that the damned paladin can root the mob(s) to make warrior agro trivial and go start the next pull?
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Anyway, I don't think Knights are terrible as much as I think Warriors are underrated. A big part of this whole 'Warriors are shit in groups' myth comes from leveling with Warriors with the standard noob combo (Yak Scimitar/Skean) and terrible dexterity. Reality is that warriors are gear dependent, but once you get the gear they are absolutely destructive: nearly as much DPS as monks, solid threat, massive hp/ac, and when you overpull you just hit evasive and you need maybe 1 CH in the next 3 minutes. I mean I played an *iksar* warrior and he was very strong IMO, so I can only imagine when it would feel like to play a full cobalt/crown of rile/etc ogre.
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It's funny sometimes grouping my warrior with careful casters, getting a proc on engage and then seeing root land always makes me want to giggle. But hell, if the shaman wants to root every mob before slowing I'm quite willing to pull out a 2hander and up the damage output. The overwhelming majority of warriors are never going to "get the gear" you're thinking of (mine's an alt, for instance), it's a cooperative game and a warrior's effectiveness as a tank is influenced hugely by the cooperation of their group. Necros & wizards that nuke on engage, rogues that can't even spell "evade" let alone use the ability, rangers & monks & rogues that equip weapons with agro procs or nuke procs, monks that can't be bothered to shed agro with FD... It does seem like few players here learn much of anything about agro management until/unless they get insta-gibbed a few times by Spiroc Lords.