Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenalpow
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No, it died because smaller guilds were abusing the system and refused any sort of reform.*
*blame it on BDA
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I'm not blaming it on BDA or anyone, I was just proposing agreements that have worked in the past to address the issues BDA and larger R guilds had that were valid, with which many of the smaller guilds in fact agreed, contrary to what you claim. A proposal from which maybe you can build common ground.
As far as whose fault, for whatever reason, people couldn't come to an agreement before. It's on both sides to come to an agreement, not just on BDA, though BDA did make that difficult with the whole ultimatum business. I think blaming it on 'smaller guilds' is also disingenuous given that the proposal that caused it to fail was posted in the public forum for all to see exactly why it failed, and I personally saw a number of revisions as well. But what I DO know is that the many of the specific reasons in the proposal that BDA repeatedly highlighted were concessions that most smaller guilds I talked to were willing to make. The stuff they had problems with was the 1 hour window and the Gorenaire being a gatekeeper type stuff. To put it into perspective, the thing that was proposed as the new rotation rules was so bad to them that they would rather move to class C (Asgard), fold (MC), or merge (A-Team) rather than be part of that. That says a lot. To the smaller guilds, the current state of class R and the raid scene is preferable to the proposal that brought down the rotation, which was issued with an ultimatum rather than discussion. So just putting it off as "Oh smaller guilds wanted more loot, simple as that!" is missing the point by a mile. Whether it's against class C or smaller guilds, I guess your strong suit has never really been to see things from another's perspective without vilifying it.
Anyway not really interested in rehashing that old discussion. The point is, players on both sides can propose self-interested agreements with ultimatums all day, and if they do, we find ourselves pooping in a sock. Want poopsocking to end? At a minimum try to find common ground with those same players who ALSO want poopsocking to end. A good first step to achieving that is to stop seeing them as evil lootwhores with grabby hands. If we can't even do that, then pull out your sock and wait for VS :P