[loramin]

Heh, they weren't joking around when they said you were writing a treatise!

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that. It was definitely very informative, and it was nice to hear from someone who really had experienced both Iksar and non-Iksar Necros. Also I really appreciated the gear info; as I said I'm pretty ignorant on that topic, so your explanation was very helpful.

To the specific points:

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1- The experience penalty is temporary.
2- The faction problem is temporary.

For the standard use case, where this Necro is someone's main or even secondary alt that they play daily, this is absolutely true. Again, I acknowledge that Iksar are the best race for a typical Necromancer. But if you don't play much, or if the Necro you are making is your 7th or 8th alt, you know the toon will never hit 60, which makes both of those "temporary" issues actually "lifetime" issues.

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you like to play AFK camps, Iksar Regen isn't terribly necessary. By the time the mob respawns, your hp and mana will both be capped. No big deal.

I was thinking more of PvP and breaking a room, but AFK camping is another perfect example where your max HP and Mana matter far more than your regen rate. These non-standard cases are the ones I'm really curious about.

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now, as for the leveling speed argument, here is generally how it flows:

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The greater efficiency allowed me to fly through those last levels so much faster than I was able to on Uteunayr.

This surprises me, just because of the number crunching in that other thread (which I really wish I could reference; damn you ineffective forum search!) That thread basically did the math and showed it would take X more mobs per level for an Iksar, then showed how much HP the Iksar would regen in that time, and it at least made it look like the regen resulted in a comparatively miniscule amount of extra mana: enough to kill one or two extra mobs, but not enough to make up for X (which was like twenty or something).

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But ultimately, just like in WoW, social science, and basically everything that uses statistics to represent the world, simulations are going to be problematic when it comes to actual execution because of the vast number of different variables that become assumed on a simulation. I highly recommend anyone who doubts how much of a day and night difference non-Iksar vs Iksar is to try it. Play both to 60. Start with an Iksar, or do as I did and start with a Non-Iksar.

True, but human experience is extremely subjective also. I mean, I have played both races for a few levels, but not enough to really appreciate the difference, and even if I had I'd trust some quality number crunching over my own feelings.

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By Velious, as I say above, the gear will be so over-saturated, it wont matter. The Erudite quest items are already overly laden with Int and Mana, whereas Sky shoulders give you near the same overall stat allocation (assuming 1hp = 1 mana, as I value it), but with some mana being health instead. By Velious, you'll be finding better stuff that the Erudite gear anyway.

This is what I suspected: the post I'm referring to made a very solid case about Iksar vs. Erudite gear in the current era, but it didn't seem like it would hold up in Velious.

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ultimately, play what will give you the best classic experience. That's why we are all here anyway.

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It's fucking Project 1999... This isn't srs business. Your choice of Iksar or Non-Iksar isn't going to ruin anyone's day but your own, and that's only if you make a choice that you are going to be unhappy with.

Absolutely. I swear, I didn't start this thread to get the forum's moral support in my race decision [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And I also didn't want to rehash the same old "this is why Iksar are best for most people" discussion. I just want to know if, in a purely min/max way, any other race besides Iksar is better outside the standard play case. In other words, I know Iksar are best in general for grouping, actively soloing, or raiding anything other than a single mob (and maybe even then) as your main or secondary character. But if you're more focused on PvP, or you plan to AFK camp your way to the top, or you never expect to hit level 60 (but still want to get as high as possible) then which race better?

I'm still not 100% convinced that (again, in a purely min/max sense) Iksar is the clear best race for every Necromancer no matter what. Largely because of that post I keep referencing ...

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do not, but I'd like to see it!

/sigh you and me both.