Quote:
Originally Posted by Lune
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Never once did I say that muslim is a single, homogenous culture. It's a religion spread over several disgusting, loosely related cultures, but that religion tends to imprint certain sets of values on all of them.
You're making my point for me. The "70% of Iranians who don't support the government" don't have the courage or the will to improve their system? Then they don't deserve a better system. Just like here in America, where we are being buttfucked by our politicians, our electorate is still fucking lazy and ignorant enough to say "Man, those fucking politicians, look at them buttfuck us!"....... and then proceed to re-elect every single one of them. That's the government we deserve. Diffusing responsibility throughout a society does not abrogate that responsibility. I am responsible for this situation as much as anyone else.
Why? Why are some societies perpetually corrupt and dysfunctional? Why is every single South American administration one inept, corrupt criminal enterprise after another? Why are Iceland/Canada/Japan etc so comparatively happy, stable, just, one generation after another? Why don't you have the intellectual honestly to admit that some cultures are better at civilization than others? Is that reality just too unpalatable for you, so you reject it?
You think I don't perceive the world correctly because I don't look at it like you do. That's the definition of bigotry.
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1. Comparing what would have to be a violent insurrection in Iran to voting in America is completely disingenuous. We could vote out our politicians. The ones in Iran, they are the people behind the scenes instructing Assad on his actions. They would make Syria look like a trip to Disneyland compared to what they would do to hold onto their power. The people of Iran have the courage to live in shit rather than to die for a cause that is going to get half of them killed at best, or is futile at worst.
2. I don't disagree with this. But you used South America here, and that's my point. South America isn't one entity. Venezuela and Argentina are getting worse. Uruguay and Chile are getting better. It isn't so simple, just like in the "Islamic world." Other than that, I agree with your premise. My main argument was to say Iran is fucked, but not because the people there are fuckheads, its because their government is the fuckhead element of the society, who also happen to be in possession of everything in the nation.
3. I'm the bigot because I'm telling you that you're wrong about the country I've lived in based upon what you've watched on CNN and what I've experienced in my life? I guess you have a point there in theory, but in practice, I don't see it.
I have said in other threads that people bring their biases and life experiences into arguments, and that these things are unavoidable, so you would be correct to say that I give Iran the benefit of the doubt. But fighting against that regime wouldn't be courage, it'd just be rash. Especially when the Ayatollah is old as fuck and MIGHT (small chance) be replaced by a reformer. There really is no appetite for people to go to war right now... Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan loom in the collective psyche of the Iranian people. No one wants to see their country ripped apart, especially when there is a chance for reform.
The government you deserve part though...
I really don't think there has ever been a society since the beginning of time where the political / noble / ruling class treated people correctly. Maybe there is a situation where everyone would be represented and treated justly, but I just don't see it. I also don't think the threshold would be "everyone." I'd love to see a government with 80% approval. Russia comes to mind, but that's probably because their media tells them what to think.