Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseus
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let us assume for a minute, you were supposedly good enough to do the hardest raiding in WoW. It would be safe to assume you are doing your best to prevent death. Which completely negates this argument as a whole, since you aren't dying. Dying just shows to me that you are bad, or bit off a little more than you can chew. Let us also not forget that at one point during classic WoW there was EXP loss upon death. So is this harder? One would say so, since I'm just going to assume your average player is bad, BUT, it is a design in the game that can technically be completely ignored and never seen.
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Massive logic failure
"Dying just shows to me that you are bad"
And so? Those "bad" players are still players who are experiencing the game as hard. Those bad players die in EQ and go backwards in levels and fail to level up. They fail to complete content. They fail to kill a boss or beat a dungeon so they tuck tail and go somewhere easier. They fail in multiple ways--not just failing to level. They fail to level efficiently. They fail to complete content.
People fail in EQ all the time. People fail in WOW all the time. But a lot more people fail in EQ classic than in WoW classic. This is because Blizzard intentionally removed a lot of the pain points from EQ. They added countless hand holding features. Maps, compass, different corpse recovery, different group requirements, solo content, quest hand holders, and more.
WOW is proved to be easier precisely because fewer people fail.
You are trying to reason that failed players do not count as players for the purpose of your analysis, which is absolutely retarded. Failed players cannot be excluded from the analysis because it's the volume of failed players that proves or disproves the difficulty of a game.
Ultimately these are video games... they aren't meaningful achievements in life. Beating a boss in a video game is always a pitiful achievement and is not impressive in reality. But some games are easier than others and people who played both classic EQ and classic WOW find it very easy to recognize that WOW is just straight up easier on many dimensions.
If you remove WOW expansions from the analysis, then the comparison is even CLEARER. Original WOW was FUCKING EASY INCLUDING THE RAIDS. Upper Black Rock Spire was a fucking cakewalk compared to even Blackburrow in EQ. Molten Core was just a zergfest snorefest compared to even the newbie dungeons in EQ. In EQ people have to learn massive amounts of game idiosyncracies and group min/max strategies in order to actually beat the content. Most players find this too challenging so in EQ
MOST PLAYERS SKIP MOST OF THE CONTENT BECAUSE IT'S TOO HARD.
Classic EQ is the game where
MOST PLAYERS would create Druids and then solo/duo in outdoor easy mode zones just to be able to level AT ALL, while avoiding the hard indoor zones COMPLETELY.
Classic WOW is the game where no one really has to learn any group mechanics in order to beat the hardest content in the game--which in classic WOW was UBRS and Molten Core. I participated in successful Molten Core raids in Classic WOW where the majority of the players suffered from basic incompetence at their class, didn't know anything about the game, and barely even understood basics like how pulling works or how aggro works. People would zerg rush the mobs and as long as there were a few people who knew what they were doing the raid could be successful.
I've been in countless WOW raids where the difference between success or failure was just whether people were willing to go left or right when the raid leader starts telling them to go left or right. It's really pathetic how easy it is, and how people can still fail when it's so easy, but even worse.... how they always end up winning despite incompetence.
There is a foolproof way to beat any WOW content... you just wipe and then do it over and over again until you get lucky and all the noobs you're playing with don't completely fuck up. Then you get your loots. No one has any incentive to get better because the "fail until you win" strategy is quite effective.
Classic WOW was like this. In Burning Crusade they introduced harder content... but BC isn't classic. When they introduced 10man heroic instances they introduced harder content... but Heroic instances aren't classic.
In Classic WOW a complete moron who is truly and fully incompetent by EQ standards, who in EQ could complete basically no content and would be a liability in a group rather than a benefit, can literally complete 100% of the WOW content.
Most players in EQ don't do all the content. They stick to the Oasis/LOIO/etc easy mode progression and skip all the hard stuff. This is because they suck too much to do the hard stuff. In WoW, most players suck even more than EQ players, and yet they complete 100% of the content. Because WOW is just easy on every dimension.