[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Potus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We might be getting into differences between this server and live (especially about stealing aggro), but no, I am not talking about for tanking. I'm talking about for taking damage when situations go bad. That is the best part about pets for the Necro, you can be very cavalier about solo'ing without downtime and getting very aggressive with spawns because your pet can compensate whenever you have resists or trains or adds. And they happen. It's just a part of the game, and if they don't happen then the Necro is being waaaay too cautious.

The fact remains that the Rogue and Monk pet die so quickly it's amazing. If you look at their HP totals they're roughly half and 3/4 of the 49 pet, yet they're 4 and 7 levels later against monsters whose damage output scaled significantly higher.

Another thing that people do not recognize is the rogue and monk do not bash. Bash is a lot of damage and more importantly it stuns. When you factor that in it is quite obvious Verant was scamming the necro class by calling them upgrades (which at the time people ripped Abashi a new one over on the forums).

See, when you write like this, I don't honestly understand. I am sorry, but I must be missing something. Whne you say "your pet can compensate whenever you have resists or trains or adds...", it sounds as if you intentionally throw your pet in to absorb damage for you... That's not a Necro pet. Skeletons are brittle, weak. If a pull goes bad, or you get resists, you pop your mage clickie and Feign Death out of the situation. I have never, at any point in my EQ career, felt I needed to throw my pet at something, to have it tank something, to compensate for me. That's something I have always seen as a Mage tactic.

I have never, once, felt gimped by the fact that the rogue and monk pet die quickly. Yes, they die quickly, but they shouldn't be taking damage in the first place if you're doing it right. Instead of scaling up HP (which is NOT what necro pets are, or ever were, for), they scaled up their damage by adding some nice variety to it with the backstabbing pet, and a cool looking warrior pet.

The stun bash does is brief, and the DPS it does is minor relative to the backstab. Warriors Bash, Monks Flying Kick, Rogues Backstab. I'll take the Backstab over a Bash any day of the week. My DPS with a Rogue backstab is much higher than an EoT with Bash.

Sorry, there's some major disconnect happening between us. I have never, nor can I ever imagine, a situation in which I feel it would fall on my pet to need to take hits for me. They are not tanks, they should not be tanks, they are another DoT effect. That's it. So, you are obviously doing something very different from how I have been playing the class since back in the day as well for the crux of your argument to be relevant. I am not saying you're wrong, just that for your argument to stand, I believe you're playing Necromancer in a strange way.

Originally Posted by Potus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with sacrifice was that it wasn't really a rez. You had to steal someone's exp to use it, which usually meant you had to pay some poor guy getting deleveled. It took until Shadows of Luclin before the price on EE's dropped enough that it didn't hurt to use them all the time (at least on my server, I haven't seen the price here in a while).

For raids? Sure, great great great utility to be able to feign death, quit out, then come back 90 seconds later and rez the failed raid. But I'd rather have better lifetaps or a fear spell that landed on mobs over 55.

Convergence is the rez, and yes, it uses an EE. But, just as on P1999, just as back on live, you did not have to delevel a person, as you could EE a level 60 through some janky mechanics. Even back in Kunark you were capable of getting EEs without something sacrificing their levels. Further, I do not buy "it wasn't really a rez.", it's a 93% rez at any point that I want without a Cleric or Paladin. Yes, you have to pay dearly for the component to do it, but that's the cost of convenience. How much would you be paying a Cleric or Paladin to run all the way out to City of Mist to grab you? How much would it cost to use one of your EEs? The convenience makes a Necromancer independent, and the rez is a part of that. So, I disagree and believe you undervalue the necro rez here, and overemphasize the losses.

You can FD and /q out any time you have roamers and you're over level 34. You can do it effectively in just about any situation, in addition to standing up, and popping CoS immediately to reposition yourself, or zone. I have good enough Lifetaps, and I have fears that will land on CT Minions, and Dark Blue cons to me. I am more than content, and I was more than content.

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All that being said, Necros are still a lot of fun to play and are a very powerful and versatile solo class. But they just can't match the pure power of the Enchanter for killing tough mobs.

This is what I would emphasize, yet again. Not every money mob is tough, and more importantly, not every money mob is living. An Enchanter will be supreme to a Necromancer in that they can handle large numbers of enemies in close corridors through their CC, and charm through the bunch. However, there are numerous camps a Necromancer can solo that are still end-game ones in which your full arsenal is available (undead), and there are numerous camps in which maintaining that charm becomes more a hindrance than an advantage (especially if you're a graduate student like me and need to do a lot of work while playing), and the variety offered by Necromancer as a class adjusts to that.

A necromancer can manage with a lower level pet, as we have our DoTs to make up the difference in damage, whereas the vast majority of damage from an enchanter is from their pets. Necromancers can rest more heavily on their own efficient damage potential. If you do not have a high level pet available to you, or numerous weak ones around the main target (thinking stuff like AC South Ro, some Guk mobs, a ton of quest mobs), or you cannot make the time to focus on maintaining a charm, a Necromancer lets you power through such a situation.

There are plenty of tactics a Necromancer can employ to take down high end mobs, but they are not as wide as an Enchanter. But the number of camps an Enchanter can do with ease that a Necromancer must work much harder to do, are made up for (in my view) by the absolute freedom Necromancer provides for you (rez, levant, DA, healing, most efficient mana machine, your extremely efficient damage not contingent upon a pet, etc), and the ease of camps that, relatively, enchanters need to pay more attention to since charming is pretty much the only way.

Again, I am not saying Enchanters are bad, their tool set is great, but Necromancers have a wide variety of tools at their disposal that make them far more efficient than a simple jack of all trades. The OP and any other reader trying to make this choice should do one thing, and one thing only: Look at the abilities and capacities of each class objectively, and make the choice as to what best fits their life, their sense of fun, and what they desire out of the game.

TL;DR: I do not accept a value judgment that Enchanters are better, just as no reader here should accept a value judgment that Necromancer is better. By the very nature of the word, better is subjective. One person may value the tools offered by a Necromancer more highly than those offered by an Enchanter, or may value the tools of the Enchanter over those offered by the Necromancer. Make the choice that best fits what you want, and you will not go wrong. And in that respect, you can read my Necromancer guide (linked in my first post) to read about how a Necromancer plays.