[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, you're going to keep picking at semantics and keep being a fanboy, and I'm going provide intellectually honest criticism of something I am also excited about.

You're slandering and trying to make a response to your supposed "intellectually honest criticism" seem less valid because you have no real response to being simply wrong. You said that this game was something that included winning. It does not. There is no way you can win. I do not say this out of being a fan of EverQuest, and pretty much everyone in this forum is, sorry to disappoint you. I say it because it is a fact, this genre of game does not have any form of "winning" in it, other than achieving goals you make for yourself.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can't discern the differences between the coercion inherent in this system, and the one in, say, Planetside 2, that's your problem.

If you are so badly studied on the history of MMOs and game development that you can't understand the different between F2P systems and Pay To Win systems, you have the issue.

Not everything that rewards a preorder is a pay-to-win, or rewards a kickstar, or an alpha access. So long as you dodge the facts that I presented, including but not limited to the fact that everything a Trailblazer can produce can be matched by a Founder or later, a free to play member, by spending more time. You do not get the Super Golden Pickaxe of World Rending that can break down exclusive material which can then be sold or used to craft any item in the game, and no one else who didn't purchase it cannot mine the same. Your progression through the game, the speed at which you mine and can build your top end pickaxe, is accelerated, just as an XP boost accelerates your progression through League, DOTA, EQ Live, etc.

But you know, why argue that? Why not just slander my argument and make it seem like it is irrelevant?

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're taking just as much of a connotative, subjective interpretation of these pricing models as I am. Bottom line, you're paying money for advantages over other players.

I purchased a game the day it comes out. I have an advantage over you who buys the game a week later. Is this an advantage? Of course. Is it an unfair advantage? No. Because if you play more than I do, and you make up for that lost week of potential, you can achieve the exact same I can. This is no different. Trailblazers will have an advantage, Founders will have an advantage, but Pay-To-Win is not synonymous with advantage. Sorry for thinking you would understand this basic difference in the word advantage between these two systems, but bringing that up in your semantic argument, clearly you did not.

You pay money in League, in DOTA, in EQ Live, in most SoE games, in plenty of others games, to cut down on the grind in terms of XP. But that's not what this game has, what this game has are resources, and items. So the free to play bonus, as seen in pretty much every other big multiplayer game that has some form of progression in it, is one of gathering more resources, and needing to expend less of them (more critical success) to achieve the best progression. If you lack this, and play the game enough, awesome, you can do just as well as a Trailblazer. That is a Free To Play model, not a Pay-To-Win one.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not a statement about what kind of advantages, or how decisive those advantages are, it is what it is. It's not particularly heinous, and I never said it was.

I never said you said it was. It doesn't matter about the advantages, so long as the output of the advantaged player can be matched by an player without that advantage for more work. Sure, the more brutal it is, the more nasty it is, but that doesn't suddenly bump it into pay to win, that's degrees of free to play. These are categorically different systems.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also note their EQNL cash shop is meant to include players selling resources to each other for station cash/real currency, so add that to your perspective when one player produces resources 10% faster than another.

First I will ask where this was confirmed. Everything I have seen pass /r/EQNext, and the EQNext Landmark website has said what you sell on the EQN marketplace is your custom designed structures that can then be integrated into other player's structures, which can then be sold off and you get a kickback from those sales.

Secondly, I will again emphasize the central point here, that even if you can mine 10% faster, you pay to grind less. You pay to have to do less to get the same reward. But that isn't paying to win. This is you appealing to the idea that being able to harvest huge amounts of resources is the equivalent of winning, and if that is how you see it, fine, but that's your perspective and your objective that is being won. What this means is that you have an advantage, and for other players to achieve the same as you in the market place, they need to spend more time to achieve the same result. The same as spending more time to reach level 60, the same result, without an experience potion.

That is not now, nor will it ever be, pay to win. That is very clearly a free to play model.

Edit: I am going to get back to work. You may have the last word if you wish, I couldn't care any less. The point has been made, and anything from here on out is going to be the same bullshit repeated. People passing through can decide whether accelerating one's progress counts as a pay to win or free to play model. The game is good, and I am not in any way gimped from building a bigger dick castle than Trailblazers, or getting the best gear than a Trailblazer. I'm getting back to my research, STATA awaits.