[W8Gamer]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

VP was a forced rotation. That's where the +$2500 for sitting at the table came from. Guilds like FE can't even log in and look around and mess around inside of VP, whereas TMO had the entire zone to mess around with and learn. The rotation was supposed to last only the first night, yet it lasted for at least a month I think (my memory is foggy). It was later resumed and there was even more time to learn the zone.

FTE and raiding petitions were also WAY different back then. Let's ignore for now that the lead-gm at the time was corrupt, shady, and dating a member of TMO and just look at the tools at GM disposal. There were no FTE shouts. The 15-man on spawnpoint poopsock rule ended up costing TMO at least one mob. VS could be pulled to KC entrance.

I could go on and on and on. Things change, there is a lot that is different rule wise, and content wise between now and 2 years ago. The reason I highlight that is because, with the training in VP rule being what it is, up and coming guilds like FE that want to raid VP aren't given the same +$2500 for sitting at the table that TMO and IB had. They don't get to play around in the zone for a month and get loot before deciding to train each other. Most guilds know that if they step foot in there they are going to be immediately trained, so they don't bother.

Ignoring what's "fair" for a second, let's not forget the main point and premise I have for being in this thread, and it's in the thread title: Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic. Now while only a fool would think the experience would be identical due to the game having been out for 14 years and various fixes and unintentional non-classic features existing, the fact that people have intentionally changed the raiding scene by deviating from what is classic everquest is bs imo, no matter what reasons they were for.

Sadly most people don't seem to agree with that, and if variance and nerfing ivandyrs hoops make it so that the raid scene is more competitive than the alternative of having a bunch of people sit on a spawn point spamming target so that they can hoop it down and the first group to get exp wins the encounter then they are all for creating variance and nerfing ivandyrs hoops. Similarly if they think that allowing training to occur in end-zones is a good idea because then they don't have to deal with the same number of petitions, or because it artificially leaves only the most dedicated guild to monopolize the content as happened on live when so many others could be in there doing it (not typically the case on live) then whatever.

But let's get one thing straight, that's not classic EverQuest.

When it's done INTENTIONALLY then I think it's very sad for those who want nothing more than to play on a server that is a recreation of this game during it's early years.

Shit has got nothing to do with TMO, or anyone else.

I see. Ok, now I can understand the sense of "unfairness" and can see where you are coming from, but I also can't fully agree with that it's necessarily "unfair". Just because someone got something you didn't doesn't always make it "unfair" and suggesting otherwise just sounds like you're expecting a hand out. Some kid that inherited his father's fortune without doing anything to earn it doesn't make it unfair to me. It sucks and I wish I could be as fortunate as him, but things didn't work out for me. So, to stick to the poker analogy, I think it'd be appropriate to explain it like this: When the guy sat down at the table 4 hours ago, someone came to me and said, "hey, if you sit down at the table now they are giving a +2500 chip bonus" and I replied, "Oh sweet! Well let me try and put together $500 bucks so I can go get it a seat". Well, by the time it takes me to acquire that much money, the bonus is gone. They're no longer giving it out for whatever the reason. Who's fault is that? The guys running the rules of table? The guy who sat down and took advantage of the bonus? Or me? It's my own fault, whether or not I could help the circumstances, it's my own fault that I didn't get to the table in time to cash in on the bonus.

So, TMO and IB played the game right. Whether they planned ahead to get that seat at the table as soon as they did, or whether or not luck just favored them, they got to the table at just right the time. If your guild didn't, well that's your own fault. After a while the GM's decided that the chip bonus was no longer feasible and did away with it. It's not fair or unfair. It's just the way the way game panned out. Truthfully we can go back and forth on this, with analogy after analogy. I think it's best we just agree to disagree.

As far as the current raid scene not being classic EQ, I don't disagree there. Of course it's not classic, but for me I will say it's pretty close. That's my personal experience though and everyone's will be different. For me, training and variance aren't classic, no. I don't remember any of that, but you know what else I don't remember? I don't remember seeing EVEN CLOSE to the amount of epics on my server during the kunark era as I do on p99. Nor I do remember seeing more than 1 guild sporting epics. First epic I ever saw was the necro epic and it was under a Recon guild tag. I didn't see my next epic for WEEKS and when I did, it was another recon guild tag.

I keep hearing everyone talk about how they remember these rotations on their server. Well, we had rotations on E`ci as well. I remember a guy named Fhaldark used to lead public Hate raids every Thursday night. And there was a website with a calender you could go to see what raids were when and who had what slots. I also remember, that this was late in the Velious era. There was no rotation in the Kunark era. Recon dominated the raid scene (for the US time zone at least). And all these rotations and hearing other guilds tackle these raid targets in the planes and kunark didn't start happening until post Velious, post Luclin, post PoP. That's how I remember it, but even so, someone else who was on the same server might not remember the same way I do, because it all boils down to personal experience. I think people forget that we are STILL in the Kunark era and when you compare to classic, you need to stay within that era, not the timeline. If you're comparing P99 to the live timeline, you are WAY off. As long as p99 has been running, I'm pretty sure we would be in PoP right now. So, we can at least agree on the fact that no, p99 raiding is not exactly the same as live raiding, but if that's what you were expecting when you joined this server (for it to be EXACTLY like live) you set yourself up to be let down a long time. As far as comparing what the raid scene was like during the Kunark era on live and on p99, for me it doesn't seem to far in the regards that one guild did dominate the content.

In closing, I just want to refer back to my original argument and why I even brought it up. The premise of this thread is that "p99 raiding is not classic". However, it got derailed when people started screaming the rules needed to be changed. That the current rules weren't fair and catered to 1 guild. My argument is that, that is just not true. There is nothing wrong with current rules regardless of what the rules were a year ago, and whether or not they are classic. Yes the rules are different. No, the rules are not classic (some for reasons that have NOTHING to do with classic), but to state the rules are unfair, and cater to 1 group is just simply not true at all. Anyone is capable of tackling whoever the top guild is within the current rule set. It won't be easy and expect an uphill battle, but As I've said over and over again, how dedicated and determined you are is the deciding factor in whether or not you come out on top. Not a change in the rules.