Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks
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I understand your point, but I think we're really talking about 2 seperate things.
However, in regards to the fact that you feel they don't have an advantage over an up and coming guild I'm really confused. TMO got it's foot in VP early, only IB had the same advantage that they were given, and IB quit playing on the server, so guilds such as FE have almost no way of accessing the zone given the current rules.
It's much harder to pull of a successful assault than it is to mount a defense, and all TMO needs to do, given the rules of the server, is hold on and defend VP to maintain their advantage.
Personally I think the rules at the time had a direct affect on giving TMO this advantage, because they were literally GIVEN a rotation for their first cracks at VP. Nobody in FE or any other guild wanting to attempt to challenge TMO for mobs in the zone can say they were offered the same. The fact FE ever killed anything in there is insanely impressive.
Of course TMO has to play by the same rules as everyone else, I don't think that's the issue being discussed. The issue is that given the current non-classic rules, actual competition has been all but stifled, and almost nobody else wanting to raid or see the zone is having any fun.
Now we can argue all day about whether THAT is classic or not (it was imo) but the point is here it's only due to non-classic rules, whereas on live it actually came down to player/guild skill and knowledge. Barriers that simply don't exist for the majority of players on this server.
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I never said TMO doesn't have an advantage. Of course they have an advantage. I'm saying they don't have an unfair advantage. Just because things worked out in their favor doesn't mean it's "unfair". That's like if a guy who's been sitting at a poker table for 4 hours manages to rack up $10,000 in chips and then I come sit at the table with my measly $500. Does the other guy have an advantage? Damn right he does. Is his advantage unfair? Nope. He got here first. He's been running the table longer than I have. Therefore I have an uphill battle. It'll be hard to overcome, but it's not impossible. Now substitute the table for p99 raid scene and substitute chips for raid loot. TMO been running the table longer than anyone else. So, whoever sits at the table is going to be at a disadvantage, but that doesn't make it unfair and that doesn't mean TMO is unbeatable.
FE has already beaten TMO in VP before. As miraculous as that may seem, it doesn't take away from the fact that it happened. That is all the proof you need that TMO can be beat in VP under the current rule set. Same goes with any other target. TMO loses targets all the time. Granted for every 1 they lose, they probably win 3, but that doesn't take away from the fact that TMO can and has been beaten. It's just about how strong is your will and determination to beat them.
Now, I already know you're going to bring up the whole shady business that happened with Amelinda. IF that's how it went down, then yes, TMO got an unfair advantage in the raid scene. However, I was not on the server when it happened so I can't comment on it. At the same, Autotune says that it DIDN'T go down like that. So, we are stuck at a he said she said dilemma. Unless you can prove that the cheating went down the way you said, it's pretty much a moot point, because regardless of what went down then, has nothing to do with people claiming the current rules need to be changed now. I mean, lets says that whole scenario never happened. What then? Who fucking knows?! There is no way to speculate what would have happened. TMO might have still beat out IB. IB might have beat out TMO. The only difference is everyone would be bitching about IB hogging all the loots, but still demanding the raid scene be fixed when it isn't even broken.