melee hate per swing
 

I did some aggro tests after reading Treats' and Zeelot's posts on
aggro because I felt swing hate was too low on this server (seems I
was wrong as per usual). Snoogan (60 pal) facepulled a mob, stunned
it, and then I (60 war) beat on it from behind until it turned to face
me. Each test records the number of hits and misses as well as the
'theoretical' hate, i.e. (weapon damage + damage bonus) * # of swings.

#1: sarnak knight. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH Lamentation: 11 hits, 8 misses = 19 swings, 380 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 12 hits, 4 misses = 16 swings, 128 hate
Total: 508 hate

#2: sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH Lamentation: 16 hits, 4 misses = 20 swings, 400 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 13 hits, 1 miss = 14 swings, 112 hate
Total: 512 hate

#3. sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 force (stun+90)
MH Lamentation: 19 hits, 6 misses = 25 swings, 500 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 12 hits, 2 misses = 14 swings, 112 hate
total: 612 hate

#4. sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun (force?)
MH Lamentation: 23 hits, 6 misses: 29 swings, 580 hate
OH Fist: 5 hits, 4 misses, 9 swings, 18 hate
Total: 600 hate

#5. wurm. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH: Staff of Battle: 6 hits, 9 misses, 15 swings: 720 hate

#6. bottomless feaster. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH: Staff of Battle: 13 hits, 3 misses, 16 swings: 768 hate
(last swing was a double)

#7. mature wurm. Snoogan: facepull + 3 stuns
MH Lamentation: 43 hits, 15 misses, 58 swings: 1160 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 32 hits, 12 misses, 44 swings: 352 hate
Total: 1512 hate

So if we assume that 1 stun is worth 500 hate, everything makes sense
. . . as long as you are using a 1H weapon. Based on this 2H is
massively inferior by about a factor of 1.5 or so.

Anyway this is precisely the opposite of what Zeelot's thread claims:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ate+generation

For example, the Elder Wolf Jawbone (11/29 1H 13 bonus = 26) needed 30
swings (780 theoretical hate) while the Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36
39 bonus = 48) needed 12 swings (576 theoretical hate). Treats
estimated that 1H should be 0.725*TH and 2H should be 1.125*TH based
on this thread.

From this test it looks like the opposite is true. So what I'm
wondering is: is this intended or a typo?

Bumping this for Kanras hopefully.

Two hand will be inferior here because of the damage bonus.

Damage bonus for 2h in that other thread is almost twice the amount it is currently on P1999.

The point here is that all weapons do (damage+db)*1H/2H mult per swing. In Zeelot's thread 2H gets a ~1.1x bonus and 1H gets a ~.7x penalty. Here it's reversed based on the current damage bonus of 17 for 2H. I'm not claiming for sure that 1H should be getting a hate penalty and 2H a bonus - that might have been changed at some point - but I really see no reason for 2H to be getting a penalty.

In Zeelot's thread the two handers are using different damage bonuses.

The numbers will not match up to here because of this.

Zeelot's thread:

Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 39 dmg bonus)
Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 49 dmg bonus)
Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 42 bonus)

Project1999 (This is your penalty):

Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 19 dmg bonus)
Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 23 dmg bonus)
Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 20 bonus)

Yes, Treats, I understand your point. Here is my point:

edit: I calculated the Staff of Battle as 31 damage + 17 DB = 48 hate/swing in my post. You can see that even with the P1999 DB the results are still nuts. In fact you can see 25 swings with the lamentation ~= 15 swings with the Staff of Battle, so adjusting for time 25*1.9 = 47.5 seconds (well ignoring DA/TA) and 15*3.1 = 46.5 seconds, so the hate from a single Lamentation is roughly equal to the Staff of Battle.

edit2: I'd like to add that I'm not at all sure that 2H bonus multiplier should be active in Kunark. I saw some post on Alla that I can't find now about some very high ratio 2H (I think from NToV) that ended up being good aggro, and it sounded like it was a relatively recent change. So I suspect the most classic thing is simply 1.0 for both.

I will bet you 5k that Kanras implemented this and that he got it backwards, and that no one noticed because warriors all use 1H anyway and Paladins/SKs have their spells for aggro.