Request for rules clarifications
 

Hey guys, I'm new to red but I have a couple rules questions I'm curious about. They will probably never come up for me because I'm pretty casual but I just want to know.

#1

Let's say I'm a Paladin and I want to PK a bard. Now, I'd be insane to NOT try to root him if I want to successfully kill him, right? Now let's say he's in the middle of a swarm. Is rooting him considered intentionally causing xp loss? Do I have to sit and wait for him to finish his swarm before I'm allowed to attack him?

#2

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one, but the rules say you can't interfere with a raid target unless you have at least 12 people or more, then gives an example of training the raid. Does interfering with the raid target include any and all pvp action, such as a few players attacking the raid's clerics, or is it specifically doing things like training, dispelling slow from the boss, etc? Are you essentially barred from taking any pvp action against a raid while they're in the process of pulling / engaging a raid mob?

Thanks in advance.

#3

Quit red99 while you're ahead.

I preface this by stating that rules have been arbitrarily enforced on this server since it's inception, and they have been known to completely change on a whim's notice. I have seen Sirken quote rules that don't exist on this server, mistake Blue rules with Red rules, and claim that other rules posted / stickied / enforced prior are not valid. So everything I'm about to type is ultimately up to the discretion / opinion of whatever CSR reviews your action at that given time.

With all of that said, in theory, based upon the stickied rules and the historical application of rules on this box, the rules should be as follows in your scenarios:

1) Intentional EXP loss is not allowed. This includes rooting bards with mobs on them. Yes, that is kind of strange on a PvP server. The same goes to pelling mobs people are engaged on in theory.

2) This has been enforced 10000 different ways, but the ruling according to the boards is that any engagement of a raid force, be it direct PvP or pelling a slowed mob, is not allowed with less than 12 people.

As far as #1, the rules seem pretty clear:

If you root in mid-swarm, if you don't get the killing blow once his swarm catches up to him, he'll lose XP...

The problem with the rule is that most PvP typically occurs while some form of PvE is ongoing. It is very hard to determine what is intentionally trying to cause EXP loss vs. unintentional side effect in many cases.

We have this thing called elf court

Outcome is never guaranteed

See the great dragon sploiting era early on this server

Basically the short answer is there are so many conditions required for you to engage in PvP that people stopped doing it because GMs were suspending people. Which resulted in a server where everyone would petition people who would engage in PvP if the slightest engagement wasnt clean.

You literally need a written agreement from your target to engage in PvP, and it to be a optimal scenario.

Then this all depends on what GM reviews the petition and how they feel about it.

Scenario:

Bard swam kiting = you cannot pvp them because it is 99% likely they will die to their swarm.

So in theory you have to wait till they kill all their mobs then engage them.

This could go 2 ways-

1. They kill their mobs while you stand their waiting for them and get down to 1 mob to which you still cant engage them because they could elfcourt a suspension for you since technically they had a swarm still.

2. You engage in PvP and kill them and still get suspended because some blue GM reads the rules as no PvP while PvE.

So you're damned either way.

Edit: and people have been suspended for this, they engaged a bard swarming in CoM and got suspended.

TL;DR

if you don't want your shit randomly banned and don't want to compete with 6-boxers, don't bother

Very true, but the word 'intentionally' is in there. In this hypothetical scenario, I just want him to die, and couldn't care less if he loses xp or not outside of trying to protect myself from a rules violation. Heck I'd even rez him if he called LnS.

To another player's point, most pvp probably takes place during some form of pve, so there's probably a grey area in many cases where you aren't trying to cause xp loss, you're just trying to capitalize on an advantage while you have it. But I suppose it's best to err on the side of caution and just let him finish his swarm and then attack immediately. Or at the very least, let the mobs begin to flee from low health since now he's very unlikely to lose XP.

Thank you to those who provided me some insight in this thread. Sounds like I need to make a reasonable effort to make sure I get a clean kill, and if I get suspended well them's the breaks.