Originally Posted by Uthgaard (Post 205755)

If someone would like to remake the thread with only the facts summarized, it might get read. No one is sifting through an 8 page pissing match to get to the real data.

Originally Posted by azeth (Post 195106)

is this classic? 100% hit rate?

http://i55.tinypic.com/2h66a0z.png

Originally Posted by azeth (Post 195243)

http://i53.tinypic.com/2eupzqg.png

backstab miss rate on the same series of FGs

Originally Posted by Ralexia (Post 195545)

I think you're on to something. While messing around on my 48 monk for about 20 minutes I saw flying kicks only fail to connect on blocks, dodges, ripostes, parries. I haven't seen any "misses" from flying kick despite about 10 failed flying kicks.

Originally Posted by azeth (Post 197379)

http://i53.tinypic.com/6p5n9i.png

entire fear raid

Sochin

http://i53.tinypic.com/kqcyb.png

Azeth

http://i55.tinypic.com/ogvvao.png

Originally Posted by Rais (Post 197470)

I take back everything I said. I noticed I was missing a chat filter to double check, and kicks won't miss, only on blocks,parries and rips. So I'm landing kicks unless NPC's roll those 3 misses.

So wtg outing monks! I hate you!

Originally Posted by Aadill (Post 198292)

Not classic parses here, but 100% accuracy has to be wrong. There's more evidence that points towards it being a skill that isn't next to impossible to block... here's what I've found thus far:

http://monklybusiness43508.yuku.com/...ewtopic/id/291



Here's one from about 05. It shows 65% accuracy overall for Flying Kick, which is just about the same for backstab as it currently is on this server.



Here's another one, from 2003. Same overall accuracy. This one was over the course of 7 hours of fighting.

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...81&postcount=9




Even this post also indicates approximately a 60-70% accuracy rating (2008).

https://docs.google.com/View?docid=d...dkss4wf7&pli=1

Here's some information regarding skill caps that may be affecting accuracy (also this might be a good source for all melee damage stuff if anything has been off, as well):

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/po...d=61984#753908
(I don't know if flying kick is maxed at 200 on this server or not, but it is according to this post).

Originally Posted by MrSquirrelbane (Post 198401)

That's some good infoz! As I said I don't remember FK having the ability to miss or not. Looks to me like it did, and as such should be changed.

Melee damage, in general, still needs to be looked at though. Damage distribution is not quite classic (Kunark Beta: Mechanics Forum - Melee Damage Thread) The 1st graph in that post is from kunark era. Second graph is a smaller data sample, but still somewhat telling. I think if melee damage were fixed to be more classic then everyone's damage would go down a little. I'm still working on a sample size near what that guy did in kunark. Its not so easy since there seems to be a completely different damage table for both fear and sky (Another post, same thread) on live p99 right now. Doesn't help that work has been crazy busy! I need more data and on similar mobs so the testing is done in a vacuum. I pretty much just need more hate runs. Seems to be the best place to do these sorta parses.

Timzilla: Don't go hating on Aadill's research for not being perfectly classic. The vast majority of EQ's combat system stayed the same for a very long time. I'd wager that, in regards to FK miss rates, his links were just as valid in 1999-2001 as they were in 2003-2005.

Originally Posted by azeth (Post 205641)

If you really break down the statistical math regarding monks landing 100% of flying kicks @ 40 damage minimum, versus a hypothetically changed accuracy rate of 60-65% and minimum of 1 damage on flying kick, you're looking at a critically weaker class. Which, unfortunately is classic.

Originally Posted by Aadill (Post 205659)

Accuracy on live indicates approximately 60-70% without +accuracy item increase.

Furthermore, the original description of the thunderkick discipline went something like this:
http://www.eqvintage.com/links/melee-disciplines-2/



This indicates that the next time a flying kick connects, it would increase the damage of the kick. If the kick doesn't connect, it wouldn't (or it would use the disc and you wouldn't get the damage bonus till the next reuse timer). This implies accuracy is not supposed to be 100%. Again, considering Verant's original mantra of "nothing is certain," why would they leave a disc up to uncertainty if the melee attack used was certain?

Originally Posted by MrSquirrelbane (Post 198073)

While I don't specifically remember if FK could straight miss in classic, there is one thing that isn't classic with FK. The minimum damage on FK is too high and should be 1. This goes up to 40 damage @ level 51 and scales a bit more as you level to 60.

I think before ZOMG KNEE JERK MONKS ARE TOO POWERFUL WTFHSDA changes it would be prudent to fix that error. Simply giving FK a minimum of 1 instead of 40 will change damage distribution and lower overall dps. Giving FK a 60% miss rate will be crippling with the current state of things melee damage wise.

FK Min dmg source: http://www.monkly-business.net/index...geid=abilities

Yes I realize this was written post Velious, but not everything about every class changed from release to PoP, and its all in one place instead of having to scour the wayback machine for links, or have people read through walls of text to verify facts. (FYI I don't mind posting links to walls of text if someone if willing to read them besides me)

Originally Posted by MrSquirrelbane (Post 198953)

Min dmg is definately 40. Which is what it should be @ lvl 51. Before 51 FK min dmg should be 1. (Source: http://www.monkly-business.net/index...geid=abilities)


Here's what I was talking about w/ damage tables being different in some zones btw. This graph is a combined of a 25 mb log file. Every fight that did not take place in Fear or Sky. In these fights my str ranged from 205-230 or so.
http://i53.tinypic.com/v8pj6w.png

Same log file, str ranged from 205-255, Plane of Fear and Plane of Sky mobs only.
http://i54.tinypic.com/2isfj8w.png

Now besides the obvious hitting for min dmg a lot more, which should happen on higher level higher ac mobs, my FK MAX dmg is lower. The fun part is I had more str in Sky since I had a bard with me for about 3/4 the fights in that log. That's what leads me to believe damage tables in Sky and Fear are different than everywhere else.

Here's confirmation from the actual logs of an actual level 50 monk who was actually fighting things, and likely actually wearing nipple straps because they're awesome.
http://i54.tinypic.com/125p2sp.jpg

I also imported that log file into excel and filtered out everything but misses. I was unable to find a single instance of "You try to kick soandso, but miss!" in that 25mb log file.