Project 1999 - Game Mechanics: Bug: Mana Sieve should not affect bards

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- - Game Mechanics: Bug: Mana Sieve should not affect bards (/forums/showthread.php?t=90431)

Bug: Mana Sieve should not affect bards

Currently on Red 99, an enchanter can cast Mana Sieve on a bard, and it takes the bard's mana.

This is incorrect to classic EQ:

A bard's mana is unaffected by any spell effects which regen or deplete mana.

On Rallos Zek, bard's were considered "mana batteries" because an enchanter could cast mana sieve on them, get the mana he normally would, but the bard would not lose any mana.

I haven't spent an immense amount of time digging up proof, but here are a few bits to back-up my claim:

Quote:

Bard mana regeneration can only increase or decrease as a result of two possible factors:
worn mana regen and
Out of combat regeneration
As a consequence of the above, bards are unaffected by the mana-influencing components of all buffs, debuffs, and other spells and abilities that regenerate or drain mana. Any other effects of the ability in question will still apply to the bard.
For example, if a debuff reduces hit points by 800 per tick and mana by 400 per tick, the bard will suffer the 800 points of damage each tick but not lose any mana.
This also means that bard mana regeneration is not increased by the bard's own songs that assist with mana regeneration. These songs are intended to benefit other, non-bard party members. However, if such a song also has an HP regen component to it, the bard will benefit from that part of it.

Source: http://everquest.wikia.com/wiki/Bard

Quote:

In fact bard are immune to ALL mana effect that include : regen by spell/song and DRAIN !

Source: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4401

New info:

NPC mana-sieves are also incorrectly affecting bards:

Quag Maelstrom in OOT is able to drain a bard's mana... this is incorrect to classic.

Here is a quote from a classic EQ spoiler involving this NPC:

Quote:

This horn is dropped off of Quag Maelstrom. He is a level 45 mob in Ocean of Tears, only one zone away from Vedico. The following information was cited by an anonymous person on Illia's Beastiary. He's generally on the Seafury Cyclops island around 1000, -6000. He conned red to me at 42 and he casts drain mana a lot, (which curiously did not appear to lower my bardic mana bar at all).

Source: http://eqthieves.com/class-bard-epic10.htm

Here's some news:

On RZ you could drain a pure melee with it for the longest time too, provided they were in level range. If not? Had to duel.

Can't confirm if a bard did or didn't lose mana on that though from memory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirgon (Post 789370)

On RZ you could drain a pure melee with it for the longest time too, provided they were in level range. If not? Had to duel.

I don't recall this. If true, I'm sure it was changed before velious as I am certain that pure melee were invalid targets for the spell (as they had no mana). This is what made bards the perfect target as they met the requirements of the spell (having mana) but weren't affected by the drain effect.

Bards were losing mana from theft of thought for the first 3-4 months into Kunark before it got fixed. Also like Nirgon wrote, you could use Theft of thought on pure melee probably until the end of Kunark, early Velious.

Should also be valid on blue that you can duel a pure melee and mana drain him methinks.

Maybe that would get this moved along faster? 8]

Mana sieve drains mana.

Theft of thought transfers to the caster.

You can currently ToT a bard for mana but can't do it on pure melee

Effects that drain mana (ToT, quag maelstrom, every other one in game) or effects that restore mana (clarity, manasong, twitch) have never worked on bards.

Bards have their innate regen and later get some more manaregen through AA.

It has been this way since classic until I quit in 2011. I am 100% positive it has not changed meanwhile.

http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/Fading_Memories.php

Quote:

Enchanters can upgrade their CC via:

1 Increased mana pool (longer periods of hero-level activity)
2 Increased mana regen (increased number of mobs mezzed/hour)
3 Shortened cast time (only on some spells, faster lockdown rate)
4 Increased duration (multiplies increased mana regen, increases max number of mobs controllable)
5 Increased range (earlier mez casts on incoming mobs, increased safety from distance)
6 Increased hp/ac (less risk from failed mez attempts)

All of these are good things. A fully equipped enchanter should be better at CC than a naked enchanter.

None of the above applies to bards. Even increased hp/ac doesn't help a bard CC, because it's usually the cleric that is tanking if the bard fails, not the bard. A naked bard and a fully equipped bard are almost identical in CC power.

What OP said pretty much :)