Loramin you should just app either A/A guild for a few weeks to learn before you armchair quarterback what you think the raid scene is actually like.

I'm saving this snip to use out of context at a later date. Blackmail + STAFF BASHING!

You're clearly not listening to what I'm saying. It wouldn't matter if I was in the old Kittens guild (the one that didn't raid). It wouldn't matter if I had never even played here, and had only read Rogean's and Sirken's posts. I still wouldn't believe that Rogean and Sirken are stupid enough to create rules such that guilds can't raid top-end content without breaking them.

Does playing by the rules make it harder to compete? I'm sure (again, without even being in A/A). Do the A/A guilds have a strong incentive to break the rules if they want to get more pixels? Again, not in A/A so I don't know, but I'd imagine so.

But none of that changes the fact that guild leaders can choose to play by the rules. If you want to convince me that it's in fact impossible for them to play by the rules, and that leaders have no choice and must break the rules, then someone show me a rule that you have to break to compete.

You just don't understand what it looks like when two guilds are competing for the same mob. You would benefit from seeing it first hand so you wouldn't go off spouting misinformation.

Tag along on a raid, bind sight to a bard or monk (whoever has FTE duty) before they get cothed up.
Watch the aary prep area for secondaries, and four way when targets get tagged, watch the picture room where adds are 'goal-tended'.

Once you see the process for yourself, you will see how fluid things can get once a ton of mobs get dragged all around ToV.

No matter the guild, sometimes 'plan a' ends up with a train in the entrance. And that's a 'broken rule', regardless of what tag is over your head.

If you want to debate leadership incident handling after the fact, sure go ahead, but the bottom line is you will end up 'breaking the rules' if you want to play the current raiding game, sooner or later.

Just wanted to try to clear things up.

Look, either:

A) guild leaders have a choice, and can follow the rules and still raid

or

B) guild leaders have no choice and they have to break the rules to compete

If it's really B) then why is it so hard for someone to quote even single rule that supports that theory? I mean if B) is really the case, you'd think there would be a whole bunch of obvious rules you could quote.

Or to put it another way, if you really think Sirken and Rogean are idiots, and they made impossible to follow rules, then come out and say why you think that. Don't just attack me, I'm only a straw man: attack the idea I'm pushing, that leaders have a choice to follow the rules.

You've created some weird straw man argument that nobody is actually arguing.

You're being an idiot now just for the sake of it. It has been explained to you in multiple posts that no one is out there attempting to break the rules willfully. Rules get broken because of mistakes that happen. You attempt to rectify those mistakes when they do happen. Players aren't perfect.

See, I may be some dumb n00b who knows nothing about raiding, but even in a level 10 dungeon when you screw up you have a choice: die where you are or try to survive by running to zone and training people.

How is it any different when you screw up on a raid mob: you have the option to die where you are correct?

Die where you are around 10 other people... die where you are and wipe an entire FTE.


You are comparing apples to astronauts.