You are just describing yourself. "No pocket characters" and "No outside assistance" is pretty absolutist lol, especially considering OP did not explicitly make this rule.

You are the one subjectively interpreting the title of the thread in absolutist terms in an attempt to dismiss other people's arguments.

DSM's argument for the pocket cleric is a red herring, and rests on the entirely fallacious assumption that the only value the Cleric provides is rez. But this is simply not the case. In a group with two permanent charm pets (possibly three with a Dru/Nec 4th man), you are going to have charm breaks occuring on a very routine basis. And not only will charm breaks be frequent, but they represent the biggest danger of wiping the group.

For a group that is entirely reliant on charm, it is thus imperative that you have the best protection against charm breaks built into the group composition. And with a line of fast casting stuns, the Cleric is much better equipped to help his group mates weather a bad charm break than a Shaman. The Cleric also provides substantially better HP buffs, blast healing and CH from lvl 39 for 20pp versus Torpor at lvl 60 for $$$$$. The Cleric also has DA to assist the Enchanters with pulling. In short, the cleric is bringing a LOT of value to the group besides rez, and is doing so from 1-60, whereas basically the entirety of the shaman's already questionable value rests on Torpor at 60.

And Torpor is really only being cast on the shaman who now has to tank instead of 2 pets being CH'd. Meanwhile the cleric based team hit 60 long before the shaman becomes even remotely impactful due to the enchanters being able to keep dedicated (weaponized) pets chewing through mobs constantly.

He's just a mediocre shaman player hell-bent on convincing people that shaman is better than cleric for 2x enc, which is laughable and why the rest of us have strung him along for almost 600 pages.

If I were to make this group, i'd go with Enchanter/Enchanter/Shaman/Necromancer.

Pocket characters would be a 49 Cleric, 55 Mage, and a 46 wizard. This is looking at reality, where people make pocket characters. This has been going on for years. Crede has had a pocket Cleric since 2014. They are a great way to min/max your group.

This group would allow you to do any camp I can think of using the restriction of caster/priest only. The four players will have level 60 mains that are all great at soloing.

This is good for when the group is not together. The group may want to solo farm other camps while you are waiting for bigger targets if you end up farm crewing. Some people may just want to play their character while the group is not together. When the group eventually splits up, you won't be the one stuck with a 60 Wizard instead of a 60 Enchanter or Shaman.

Vexenu is straw manning me by claiming I said Clerics are only good for Res. This is the best he can do. The post history disproves this claim.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Diagnostic Criteria 301.81 (F60.81)

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack

of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated

by five (or more) of the following:

1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.

3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).

4. Requires excessive admiration.

5. Has a sense of entitlement (i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations).

6. ls interpersonally exploitative (i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends).

7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.

8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.




hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I don't think DSM is a narcissist, definitely on the spectrum though.

Penish is pretending to be a psychologist now, without realizing that you can provide examples of the trolls doing many of those points. But you can't diagnose someone over the internet, so it's not really relevant at the end of the day.

Toxigen thinks using autism as an insult makes him look good, and the other person bad. I'll never understand why people willingly make such an obvious error.

can you guys pick out 5 or more? lawl

This would be a powerful setup. If I was trying to build this setup, I'd have the group level with the cleric instead of the shaman until at least the low 50s. The cleric is going to have better heals throughout (shaman doesn't get superior healing till 51). Then, in the low 50s, if the group decides they'd prefer a shaman, it shouldn't take long to powerlevel the shaman up.

The difference is pocket characters are specifically on shared accounts. Shared accounts are more prone to getting messed with, like having all of your items deleted. Reimbursements can take a while these days. You also do not want someone masquerading as your main character, saying silly things.

You level the main characters to 60 that work best at 60, and don't share their account information. This group doesn't need Cleric heals to level to 60. You make pocket characters for the other classes. You let people know they are pocket characters, so people do not assume you are the one controlling the character if they are acting odd, and you lose less if the account is messed with.

It's less of a loss to lose a 49 pocket cleric than a 60 Torpor Shaman.