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Project 1999 (/forums/index.php)
-   Melee (/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=63)
-   -   Bard Starting Stat Debate Time, You Nerds (/forums/showthread.php?t=415856)

Ripqozko 02-27-2023 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3581514)
I created a test Magelo with BiS gear. It is a human since they start with 85 DEX and 85 CHA. This means it is easy to see what stat is higher after you apply gear. I put 12 points into DEX, 12 points into CHA, and 1 point into STR (just to avoid having DEX or CHA being higher).

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...rdVeliousBiS01

As I thought, CHA is the harder stat to cap with BiS gear, so I would dump into CHA during character creation. a Human's STA is 246 pre-buffed, so dumping into STA would end up being a waste. CHA is like 50 points behind DEX. At 172 CHA, you would still end up being under 200 CHA pre-buffed. Bards may switch to different instruments other than epic in certain situations, so stats will change a bit based on what instrument you are using. Even taking that into account, you aren't going to be in a situation where CHA becomes higher than DEX.
Epic never comes off it goes in offhand, swap weapon in primary for drum for debuffing or selos , drums of beast means ya never have to unequip epic. Ya stats still change but no ya epic stays on

DeathsSilkyMist 02-27-2023 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripqozko (Post 3581519)
Epic never comes off it goes in offhand, swap weapon in primary for drum for debuffing or selos , drums of beast means ya never have to unequip epic. Ya stats still change but no ya epic stays on
Ah thanks for that clarification. But yeah that was basically my point, your stat's aren't going to change drastically by swapping instruments. In BiS gear CHA is going to be much farther behind DEX, and STA will be high enough to be capped by buffs. So CHA is probably the best choice as the stat to dump your starting points into.

ya.dingus 02-27-2023 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3581514)
I created a test Magelo with BiS gear. It is a human since they start with 85 DEX and 85 CHA. This means it is easy to see what stat is higher after you apply gear. I put 12 points into DEX, 12 points into CHA, and 1 point into STR (just to avoid having DEX or CHA being higher).

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...rdVeliousBiS01

As I thought, CHA is the harder stat to cap with BiS gear, so I would dump into CHA during character creation. A Human's STA is 246 pre-buffed, so dumping into STA would end up being a waste. CHA is like 50 points behind DEX. At 172 CHA, you would still end up being under 200 CHA pre-buffed after dumping 25 points into it. Bards may switch to different instruments other than epic in certain situations, so stats will change a bit based on what instrument you are using. Even taking that into account, you aren't going to be in a situation where CHA becomes higher than DEX.

Obviously people in non-BiS gear will have more variation in what their stats are, but generally speaking the trend with Velious era gear for melee classes is a focus on melee stats (STR, STA, DEX, AGI), and less focus on WIS, INT, and CHA.
This man over here doing the lord's work. Well done. Adding this to the archive for actual min/max options on bard creation.

Well done.

Duik 02-27-2023 09:42 PM
Add to wiki newb pages as well.
Gods work must mean math > resist > hp > the rest.
Yes, because everyone has and WILL get BIS gear. Ya Dingus. YDG Ya Din Gus
At least ya got one thing correct.

ya.dingus 02-27-2023 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duik (Post 3581526)
Add to wiki newb pages as well.
Gods work must mean math > resist > hp > the rest.
Yes, because everyone has and WILL get BIS gear. Ya Dingus. YDG Ya Din Gus
At least ya got one thing correct.
Yes because we should consider non-min max options in a min max discussion.

Someone is salty for being wrong.

That's okay though, I love dunking on mouth breathing boomers all day, and this forum is in no short supply of them. I'm like the larry bird of forum post trash talk. I live for it.

If you don't have the maths, you don't have room to talk.

Despite our disagreements, Misty is like the only person I legitimately respect on these forums.That's saying a lot, because I don't hold many if any of you in high regard, if at all.

Shout out to Misty for the work.

pink grapefruit 02-27-2023 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ya.dingus (Post 3581448)
Do any of you have an actual source better than the links and stats I have provided?

Like, do ANY of you have empirical evidence?

It's a simple yes or no.
if you want empirical evidence you should be getting in contact with some bards here. should be pretty easy to test the impact of dex and cha. dex is useful, but i don't think it's useful for the reason you want it to be.

i've yet to see any empirical evidence that missed notes or twisting songs results in carpal implosion. and missed notes happen immediately (at the start of a song) and cost no mana. they're a minor annoyance more than something that is super detrimental to a bard's performance.

when you get your epic though you're gonna want all the dex you can get.

Crede 02-27-2023 09:52 PM
People throw around BiS like it’s the equivalent in ease of killing an orc pawn. most people just don’t even get remotely close. It’s a shitload of dkp and you’re better off just spreading that around multiple characters. Cha is technically the min max for wars too, but no war is putting their starting stats in cha.

Cha is not a waste as a bard but know that you’re missing out on 100 hp for probably the lifetime of your character since 99.9% of bards are not getting bis including ya dingus.

ya.dingus 02-27-2023 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pink grapefruit (Post 3581530)
if you want empirical evidence you should be getting in contact with some bards here. should be pretty easy to test the impact of dex and cha. dex is useful, but i don't think it's useful for the reason you want it to be.

i've yet to see any empirical evidence that missed notes or twisting songs results in carpal implosion. and missed notes happen immediately (at the start of a song) and cost no mana. they're a minor annoyance more than something that is super detrimental to a bard's performance.

when you get your epic though you're gonna want all the dex you can get.
It's the ben franklin saying. Penny saved is a penny earned.

Play a bard over two years, and your button presses will be well over in the tens of thousands for missed notes.

This is literally a case that a minor change in the short term, is a major saving in the long term.


Though as Misty said, still harder to get CHA long term than Dex. So the Min/Max option clearly is dumping points into CHA.

Borak 02-27-2023 09:54 PM
In any event, if we're talking about BIS or striving for BIS, you won't put points into DEX because odds are, you'll have a primal in your bag before you reach BIS. Once you proc avatar, your DEX goes up 100. I'm geared fairly well but not BIS, and once avatar procs, STR AGI DEX all hit 255.

The most important thing to do, if you haven't committed yet, is to choose human. It's a bit late for me to reroll but if I could I'd choose human for the most important reason - when you click halfling mask and then proc avatar, you become a barbarian sized halfling. I'm stuck at human sized halfling because I rolled wood elf. Learn from my mistake!

Crede 02-27-2023 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borak (Post 3581533)
In any event, if we're talking about BIS or striving for BIS, you won't put points into DEX because odds are, you'll have a primal in your bag before you reach BIS. Once you proc avatar, your DEX goes up 100. I'm geared fairly well but not BIS, and once avatar procs, STR AGI DEX all hit 255.

The most important thing to do, if you haven't committed yet, is to choose human. It's a bit late for me to reroll but if I could I'd choose human for the most important reason - when you click halfling mask and then proc avatar, you become a barbarian sized halfling. I'm stuck at human sized halfling because I rolled wood elf. Learn from my mistake!
Human basically min max fashion for every class!


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