A group with a paladin that has C and a moderate healer will have a bottle neck in mobs way before mana and agro won't be a problem.

A group with a shadowknight that has C and a moderate healer will be more likely to be waiting for priest's mana and agro won't be a problem.

Warriors are better raid tanks, but chances are you won't be a raid tank unless you're particularly ambitious and willing to invest that kind of time.

Anyone that thinks shadowknights are better than paladins probably shops at hot topic, writes deviantart poetry and nicknames themselves "Raven."

Case closed. Period.

On the other hand warriors make better melee/heal duo partner than any class besides monks.

I don't really understand all the shit-talk against warriors as tanks. There are so few encounters where someone stealing aggro from the tank could cause a wipe. If the shaman gets aggro from slow, it just means the melees have to work a bit harder to reposition. Rogues should manage their aggro better, and monks can handle the attention. Wipes almost universally come from shit involving crowd control, pull snafus, etc. that have nothing to do with who has the attention of the dps target.

Questions about velious hybrid tanking:
1) Does the low defense skill cap for Rangers (200 iirc?) ever get lifted during velious?
2) How will capping AC from gear (350?) affect the ability of Rangers and even Bards to tank in situations that don't require defensive disc?

Sk's get a much better fast casting feign in velious and an improved rune, which is amazing if you've got plenty of peridots to use. SK's can regen hp to an extraordinary degree depending on your race/gear, minimizing healing needed on trash. Their ability to pump out insane amounts of snap aggro makes them ideal for anything that's not a boss. You'll understand when you see HoT raids with warriors that can't hold aggro.

Warriors unquestionably superior for boss fights

I prefer warriors for most applications. Superior dps and mitigation. Paladins and Sk are awesome at what they do though which is why 3 tank classes exist.

Some of the disciplines added later on, such as the Warrior provoke, should have been put in at the very beginning :/

And the Luclin AA's, such as Area Taunt, really put Warrior where it should be.

To be fair, 100% of wipes have everything to do with who has the attention of the mob(s). Also, if you're gonna say that DPS should be managing their aggro better, which I agree with BTW, quit... pulling... aggro... on... slow. You are murdering every melee's enjoyment of the game when you do that. Or maybe, just maybe, change your position so that when you pull aggro the whole group doesn't have to track the mob down and re-position.

Coming from the person who preaches against ranger tanks every chance he gets, that is hilarious.

Since RnF is dead, this thread delivers a close substitute

Sometimes that's easier said than done!

Last time my wife was on a raid (albeit with warrior tanks who don't have VP gear), she couldn't slow at 90% without pulling hate. So she'd wait till 75%. No go, still pulled hate. So wait till 50%....STILL pulled aggro most every time. So she just stopped slowing at all. Didn't pull hate anymore!

There'll never be full agreement with respect to the tank classes in this game because they're all flawed. No matter which one you pick you have significant limitations you have to deal with. So pick your poison. Newer games have done a better job of implementing their tank classes; with P1999 we just accept the bad with the good. With respect to the thread title, SK (and Paladin) versus Warrior doesn't really change much in Velious. They have the same relative strengths versus each other and are favored in the same aspects of gameplay where they already are.

Danth