Well you say that empire needs to push timers to prime time, then you ignore that good guys helped pushed timers where they are, and ignore that they have a history of not contesting when able. Is that a good start?

I don't say they have to push timers. I say if they really want more PvP they should.
There is an ebb and flow to a competitive guild who is losing. GG has leadership that doesn't seem to understand the basics of how to motivate a guild that is losing.
Whether GG fails or not isn't really the discussion. The discussion is about promoting maximum competition/pvp during raid encounters. There isn't a way you can logically say that you will more participation at 4am est than at 8pm est.

It kinda seems you are more interested in not being wrong.

Nothing is at 4am and we didnt break the servers to put them there in the first place. We also are not going to make 40 people sit around with thumbs up ass all day maling sure gg doesnt try and snipe something, because they will, they have no desire to fight us in mass pvp.

empire does not want more pvp they fear it like death, they want easy uncontested mobs, for more proof look how hard they trying to project the image of good guys failing / dying

its actually kinda sad.

Honest question: could Good Guys log in and push the timers back by contesting?

empire is 100% for pushing raid mob timers to primetime hours.

good guys kept the trakanon timer at 4 AM for 5? spawns before we showed up to contest it, they logged off, we left it up to push the timer, but they batphoned and killed it at 11 AM. we got the timer, showed up, stomped them in a fight over it, and they gave up. the timer was then pushed nearly into primetime.

we've been pushing the normal repop timers a few hours every week, since if we just leave them up, we know they will batphone to log in and kill them at a still-shitty hour. it also isn't easy to call a graveyard hour raid, then tell people they have to sit there for 12 hours while we leave the mobs up.

Look a reasonable person.

don't be fooled alarti, colgate loves killing dragons uncontested at 4am

having a hard time believing the spawn timers are deterring good guys from contesting when they were showing up at these hours with equal or greater numbers than we were just a few weeks ago

Maybe that's what happens when you're an under geared zerg that desperately needs planar clears around the clock but still has a DKP system tailored to award DKP over raid mobs only, instead of, say, awarding far more DKP for the shitty but necessary things no one wants to do in game that builds a guild up so they can contest one day.

Or naw?