Everyone seems to be forgetting a really important part of that Rogean post...

I think Preparation C does that quite nicely. Oops, I mean Proposition C.

Also, to the entire forum community, let's stop trying to make posts/threads bashing the other side for the way they play. Both casuals and hardcore's have a legitimate claim to this server, and shouldn't come under fire for the way they enjoy the game.

Agreed, though what ever system is chosen I hope effort = reward takes precedence while allowing non-competitive guilds a taste of raid mobs.

Not saying your right or wrong. but Why do you play a 14 year old game?
Most of us came here to relive EQ.. on live there was competition. On Live there was a high Risk VS Reward.
Without competition or risk we are not "reliving Everquest" we might as well run around on the live server in the old zones if we just want to see old EQ

On live there was never 6-8 guilds capable of killing the endgame content at one time. At best the most populated servers had maybe 3 on the bleeding edge with the rest spread out in past expansions.

Unfortunately, no proposal can fix what's broken with this situation.

Derubael, your proposal does not cover mobs being left up. If tier1 first spawn mobs are left up indetinately then the t1 ffa period gets screwed. If they arent killed fast enough, t1 guilds complain, and finally if they are put to FFA too fast the t2 guilds will not have time to kill. The divinty propsal has time limits that allows tier2 mobs to go to ffa. Its also moves the gamesmanship (read: competition) from the engage to properly selecting targets you can mobilize for, which meets the csr goal of reducing asshattery. These large periods where tier2 guilds have to compete, on tier1 standards, with tier1 guilds is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid because no one has discussed anything that decreases the historic asshattery during engages/fte.

Maybe if competing against tier1 was not so ugly, tier2 could get on board with the suggestion. In my experience, tmo (as an example of tier1) will only adhere to the letter of the law and not the intent. That is what tier2 guilds are trying to avoid dealing with.

It's easy to set limits on rotated mobs, ie, you must engage within X hours.

Makes everyone happy. Proposition C is just a 'bare bones' core rule proposal. Specifics can be worked out if everyone agrees to the proposal itself.

Plan C sounds like some weird birth control pill for the raid scene. Guess it beats Preparation H

So tier2 relinquished any aspirations of tier1 holing up in the loot pinata of vp. Tier1 then comes back and says thats not enough. Then tier1 starts pushing tier2 guilds to compete with tier1 without any stipulations that protect tier2 (or tier1) from fte, fraps, and petitionquest. If you'd like tier2 to compete, dial down the bullshit meter. Since no one has offered anything on that front, tier2 would just like to avoid it.

for FTE u have fte shouts
Fraps are there to protect u !.
Petitionquest isnt what u doing to avoid competition?, what if GM forced u to it ?. no one likes to be forced isnt it ?.

what u fear, vp is not anymore train territory , FTE shouts are there to let you know who engaged first so u dont kill the other guild mob .


what stop you since ur guild have the keys to zone in vp chek if anything is up , call ur friends and kill it?.