Can't be that different from most expansions on release and then after the guild has equiped themselves up which always trivialises (relatively ofcourse) those same encounters. Much like goin into kunark with none of it's loot when that came out (I don't know, I didn't start raiding until the end of velious when my guild already had most of the loot but I'd be suprised if the same didn't apply )

Is there any concern within TMO that once Velious does materlialise so many people may return that the numbers become unmanageable and beyond zerg? That could be problematic ?

You will notice we haven't invited those members which were involved in those very shady practices. Some of those points were for individual members and some were on guild practices. I suppose I could repost more clearly the divisions if its necessary. Most of the especially shitty VD people who condoned memblur exploiting, and Bischbrotos actions have went to FE. The guild does not inherent their actions just the fact that they would invite such members.

TMO has on avg around 55 raiders as things stand, So lets say that number doubles for velious. so we are talking 110 or so people, In the hay day of DA/TMO sky runs it want uncommon to avg around 100 people. So there is experience with those kind of numbers there but yes there is the inherent idiot factor that must always be contended with forces of that size. But as long as people do their jobs and listen I think the zerglings will be fine =D

Big bad forum warrior, butt hurt over a cloak, personal crusade against bda, actually leveled a Druid past 39 and calls other people bad and bad mouths my guild. What have you done of note in game? Do you even play or just troll the p99 boards?

This, plus I gotta say I disagree with thread idea. Sounds like a bunch of rules and details that will only be followed by some. Stuff doesn't need to be micromanaged it's a game.

How about 1 lottery mob per week? That's all i got :)

Every time I see "Do you even play" it reminds me of the "Do you even lift" thing.

not really sure what to say! rules wont be followed till all are willing to follow.... so prolly a no go=-/

Indeed Kotton. I knew this would most likely end up this way, but I thought players were tired of camping on poop mountain in sebilis a whole year and would eventually say enough and agree to not pre camp.

From all the posts I got in this thread I will draw the following conclusions :

- Some guilds would like to get a bit more information on when Nilbog's raiding changes proposal will come live.
- Most people think that an agreement has to be broken
- The lack of official stance from TMO and the abundance of Alarti's and Jeremy's posts saying that giving more time for other guilds to mobilize is not increasing competition but weakening TMO tells me that they are completely fine with the current raiding scene and have no intent to change anything.

People can keep trying to lure the server about competition, in the end, it's the loot which matters.

I tried to get something done and come to a mutual agreement without any success. If you ever want to try and change things in a near future, the door is still open.
But for now, let's continue the way things are !