Assuming you're doing this as a tier list sort of discussion then anything but the best player at their class at maximum power is irrelevant.

In Kunark Enchanters reign king it seems. Once you get to Velious and a lot of mobs are straight up 100% stun and mes resistant bard takes over since they still have their ridiculous snares to kite for CC. At level 60, Bard snare is 80%+ if I recall correctly.

Luclin and PoP reboosted the Enchanter nicely since they could dire charm and a lot of mobs went back to normal and weren't the dragon/giant/wyvern races.

It was GoD where enchanters were GoDs. Iirc they had to nerf the mobs as they were way, way, way too powerful when charmed compared to players.

lol your self righteous arrogance is good for some lulz, a tecmos post is always funny to read so at least you have that going for you I guess.

I never said mod rods > clarity, or wizard dps > charmed pet DPS. I just said that they get the job done in the 6th position of my ideal group, and that they still bring things to the table. L2read and L2forum brotato.

Sorry though, I shouldn't doubt your god mode grasp of all things EQ, it won't happen again sir!

What makes a group "normal" or not?

For the most part, a bard is going to need a tank, a healer, and at least one DPS class to be a part of an effective group. That means you're dedicating four group slots to making a bard a meaningful part of your group. If you can't find a tank, or a healer, or a DPS, your group is going to underperform badly, bard or no bard.

Enchanters eliminate that requirement. With an enchanter, your group doesn't need a tank. The charm can tank. It doesn't need DPS. The charm is elite DPS. It barely needs a healer. You can fill and go.

And if we're talking about an optimal group, you really just want to stack enchanters. Put a bunch of enchanters with a cleric, and you're basically raid-ready.

Fair enough. But the elite of the elite classes like shamen/ench/cleric aren't really needed unless your doing something that requires serious tanking or slow (ixi, prot, king, etc.).

I've done a lot of 3 man HS South. A Bard Cleric Enchanter/rogue group can lock down all 5 mobs with relative ease (particularly once a shitty name pops in the cave.) Perhaps you don't need a bard to do it, but I think it certainly is a lot more of a pain in the ass to move around to each camp as a shaman/ench combo.

Also, epic bard should be a lot more than 25 dps. Damage shield alone is 46 per hit when stacked properly.

I'm not saying a bard is as powerful as any of those classes. I'm just saying adding a bard into the mix as the tank / puller in small 3 man groups is a very efficient experience due to their broad utility.

Obviously 2 enchanters and a cleric/shaman is a pretty OP trio.

Dolic

screw all these enchanters blah blah more rogues the better

Shaman are kings of EQ atm, but its really fucking lame raiding as one

Well the big problem now with any class in a group is the mobs die so fast that it hardly really matters who is in the group. I know when I pull at times in say LCY hell all I seem to do is pull lol. By the time you bring a mob back and the Chanter pet, Tank, Rogue jumps on it the mob is down to 30% and time to go get another one. Even the Healers are beating on it at times.

So I guess what I am saying is the PULLER is the game changer in a group now. How good he is getting them, and not getting half the zone at once. :eek:

Double post.

Pullers won't be the end all be all they are now in velious. Mobs just don't fall over at the sight of 30 people in velious like they do in kunark :p