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Project 1999 (/forums/index.php)
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-   -   Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things (/forums/showthread.php?t=421215)

Crede 07-19-2023 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3626588)
If you really thought STR was such a big deal, you would be telling OP to play Barbarian instead. Rogues have a lot of fashion options with illusion masks already.
Nah, bad advice. You can illusion barb, can’t illusion gnome anymore. Gnome great choice while also benefiting from starting str. Best of both worlds, not sure why you keep thinking recommending strength = going barb.

DeathsSilkyMist 07-19-2023 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede (Post 3626594)
Nah, bad advice. You can illusion barb, can’t illusion gnome anymore. Gnome great choice while also benefiting from starting str. Best of both worlds, not sure why you keep thinking recommending strength = going barb.
If you want to claim fashion > stats, then you are saying losing 43 STR isn't a big deal by picking Gnome over Barbarian. I am saying losing 25 STR isn't a big deal when you put your points into STA. We are saying the same thing, since losing 43 STR is a bigger loss than 25 STR. This is pretty basic logic, and you agree with me. You cannot simultaneously say 25 STR is a big deal, while saying 43 STR is not a big deal.

Crede 07-19-2023 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3626595)
If you want to claim fashion > stats, then you are saying losing 43 STR isn't a big deal by picking Gnome over Barbarian. I am saying losing 25 STR isn't a big deal. We are saying the same thing, since losing 43 STR is a bigger loss than 25 STR. This is pretty basic logic, and you agree with me.
Fashion is greater than stats. You can still capitalize on starting stats with your favorite race.

Never said 43 str was a huge deal. It’s just better than sta.

You’re not cunning even though you’re trying to be, lol.

DeathsSilkyMist 07-19-2023 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede (Post 3626599)
Never said 43 str was a huge deal.
We are in agreement then. As you say, 43 STR isn't a huge deal. 25 STR is a smaller number, so the same logic applies.

Because of this, STA is the better starting stat. 43 STR isn't a huge deal, and STR is easy to cap in Velious. You only need 120 STR to cap STR with Maniacal Strength + Focus of Spirit. With Rogue Epic and Thick Banded Belt or Gauntlets of Potence, you are already at 35/60 STR needed to hit 120 STR on a gnome Rogue. It is easy to find a few other pieces to get the remaining 25 STR.

Toxigen 07-19-2023 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist (Post 3626588)
I am not sure why this is a difficult concept. You put your starting stats into the stat that is harder to cap. You get zero returns from a capped stat.

STR is easy to cap in Velious era. You are generally just throwing your points away by putting your starting stats there. The exception to this is if you are making your first character on a server. In that specific scenario, STR can be a good choice. OP has 20k worth of twink gear, so this clearly isn't the case.

If you really thought STR was such a big deal, you would be telling OP to play Barbarian instead. Rogues have a lot of fashion options with illusion masks already.

If you want to claim fashion > stats, then you are saying losing 43 STR isn't a big deal. I am saying losing 25 STR isn't a big deal. We are saying the same thing, since 43 STR is a bigger loss than 25 STR.
20k aint shit he should save it all for epic mq outside some basic weapons and a hold-over haste item

and the str will be felt allllll the way to 60 / good gear - how many fuckin hours is this guy gonna play until he has shaman STR + FoS all the time? will he ever have level 60 shaman buffs?

yes, we all know STA is the idealist best choice...but in the real world and for this OP, its STR

now go home - you're drunk on paper napkin

DeathsSilkyMist 07-19-2023 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxigen (Post 3626603)
yes, we all know STA is the idealist best choice
Agreed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxigen (Post 3626603)
20k aint shit he should save it all for epic mq outside some basic weapons and a hold-over haste item

and the str will be felt allllll the way to 60 / good gear - how many fuckin hours is this guy gonna play until he has shaman STR + FoS all the time?
With 20K OP can easily get enough STR to carry everything they need, and can buy cheap WR bags. OP needs to get to 46 first before worrying about an Epic MQ. He will need to play his character quite a bit to get to 46, so I am not sure why you think the play time argument holds water. Either he will get bored before 46, or love the class and farm more money for whatever he needs. With 20k worth of twink money, OP clearly has the ability to farm more. People with little money typically don't just drop 20k on an alt.

fortior 07-19-2023 02:21 PM
It doesn't matter whether a rogue has 1500 or 2000 hp, all that matters is resists because you're only worrying about aoe damage at that point. Having max or near max str unbuffed means 1 fewer rogue to buff, which is a big deal in a competitive raid environment. Having max or near max str unbuffed also means not requiring str buffs in a group setting, which is nice because only 1 class has substantial str buffage, and rogue duos well with classes that don't such as necro. Meanwhile a rogue will never tank in a group and a rogue will never tank in a raid aside from bumping with nimble. Obviously the shaman player can't imagine a situation without lv60 shaman buffs though.

Toxigen 07-19-2023 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortior (Post 3626607)
It doesn't matter whether a rogue has 1500 or 2000 hp, all that matters is resists because you're only worrying about aoe damage at that point. Having max or near max str unbuffed means 1 fewer rogue to buff, which is a big deal in a competitive raid environment. Having max or near max str unbuffed also means not requiring str buffs in a group setting, which is nice because only 1 class has substantial str buffage, and rogue duos well with classes that don't such as necro. Meanwhile a rogue will never tank in a group and a rogue will never tank in a raid aside from bumping with nimble. Obviously the shaman player can't imagine a situation without lv60 shaman buffs though.
exactly this

DeathsSilkyMist 07-19-2023 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortior (Post 3626607)
It doesn't matter whether a rogue has 1500 or 2000 hp, all that matters is resists because you're only worrying about aoe damage at that point. Having max or near max str unbuffed means 1 fewer rogue to buff, which is a big deal in a competitive raid environment. Having max or near max str unbuffed also means not requiring str buffs in a group setting, which is nice because only 1 class has substantial str buffage, and rogue duos well with classes that don't such as necro. Meanwhile a rogue will never tank in a group and a rogue will never tank in a raid aside from bumping with nimble. Obviously the shaman player can't imagine a situation without lv60 shaman buffs though.
It also doesn't matter if a Rogue has 300 STR or 355 STR:) Rogues can fit Maniacal Strength into a competitive raid situation just fine. I have buffed Maniacal Strength plenty of times on top competitive targets. I am not sure what raid scenario you are talking about that doesn't have a Shaman buffing. I am not sure what solo/group scenario you are talking about that needs 255 STR for a Rogue to do good DPS.

Toxigen 07-19-2023 02:24 PM
like talkin to a wall


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