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-   -   If you believe in god, you're an idiot... (/forums/showthread.php?t=25458)

brglcanan24 04-20-2011 06:09 PM

very nice share thanks...

deezy 04-21-2011 09:07 AM

Chtulu is among the smartest of all the doorknobs I've met or seen. He is at least sentient, more than you can say about most doorknobs.

Polixenes 04-21-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bman8810 (Post 271332)
Actually, considering the probability of life evolving on Earth, I really think that believing in God or nothing at all are both quite acceptable. What is concerning is the constant affirmation that both sides seek from each other.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what you believe.

P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1
P(Omniscient deity created life on Earth) = 0

bman8810 04-21-2011 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polixenes (Post 272054)
P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1
P(Omniscient deity created life on Earth) = 0

Going to refer to the first one as P(1) and second as P(2).

P(1) is only true de facto. However, I can see how you would think that P(1) = 1 when in fact P(1) = 1 (with how you described it) is actually P(1|Life did evolve on Earth) = 1.

Also, seeing as how you can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power creating life on Earth the probability of the second is actually unknown. Therefore, P(2) = x where x is an unknown dependent (primarily) on two things; does a higher power exist and would the higher power create life on Earth.

Seriously though, go talk to anyone with basic knowledge relative to life spontaneously generating. Next, whip up some probability calculations (granted, you have to assume a few things with one of the most important ones being rate of mutation.) What you will find is that the probability of it occurring is incredibly small.

Point being, just because religion X doesn't have beliefs that correctly align with scientific evidence doesn't mean that a higher power doesn't exist.

bman8810 04-21-2011 02:50 PM

P.S. Still waiting on the Skynet to do its thang.

Polixenes 04-21-2011 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bman8810 (Post 272063)
Going to refer to the first one as P(1) and second as P(2).

P(1) is only true de facto. However, I can see how you would think that P(1) = 1 when in fact P(1) = 1 (with how you described it) is actually P(1|Life did evolve on Earth) = 1.

Also, seeing as how you can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power creating life on Earth the probability of the second is actually unknown. Therefore, P(2) = x where x is an unknown dependent (primarily) on two things; does a higher power exist and would the higher power create life on Earth.

Seriously though, go talk to anyone with basic knowledge relative to life spontaneously generating. Next, whip up some probability calculations (granted, you have to assume a few things with one of the most important ones being rate of mutation.) What you will find is that the probability of it occurring is incredibly small.

Point being, just because religion X doesn't have beliefs that correctly align with scientific evidence doesn't mean that a higher power doesn't exist.

Oh drat, you've gone all serious on me.

I used "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" because I'm using present tense. It happened and it's still happening. I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not.

I'm aware someone concocted a formula involving P(planet being in the right location at the right time) etc., if that's what you are referring to, but that's just made up and so full of estimates the resulting answer is still unknown. For all we know, the spontaneous development of life, given certain common chemistry/environmental conditions, is inevitable.

bman8810 04-21-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polixenes (Post 272095)
Oh drat, you've gone all serious on me.

I used "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" because I'm using present tense. It happened and it's still happening. I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not.

I'm aware someone concocted a formula involving P(planet being in the right location at the right time) etc., if that's what you are referring to, but that's just made up and so full of estimates the resulting answer is still unknown. For all we know, the spontaneous development of life, given certain common chemistry/environmental conditions, is inevitable.

But the problem with your logic is that "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" is only correct if a higher power didn't create life on Earth (I'm not arguing against evolution here btw, just the spontaneous generation of life.) As such, seeing as how we can't know the second part for sure we can't be certain about the first one, can we?

As far as knowing whether the development of life is inevitable... I'm pretty sure you are serious and the answer is no. Life is not inevitable, at least not so far as life forms such as ourselves. It takes a very specific set of conditions (far from "common chemistry/environmental conditions") in order for life to occur. Is it possible? Surely. Is it the way things happened? Who knows, I certainly don't know for sure.

I feel like the "life is not inevitable" thing is slightly misleading. It's kind of like the monkeys writing Shakespeare thing; i.e. given enough time anything is possible.

As far as agreeing/disagreeing? I'm just trying to point out the futility in arguing for one side or the other.

Nug 04-22-2011 03:30 AM

Pretending you believe in God has some merit. There's a lot of power in it, for sure.

Actually believing in it? Yeah, you have to be pretty stupid. Then again, a lot of people are conservative as opposed to liberal. I guess it's just expected that people will make dumb decisions in life.

bman8810 04-22-2011 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nug (Post 272459)
Pretending you believe in God has some merit. There's a lot of power in it, for sure.

Actually believing in it? Yeah, you have to be pretty stupid. Then again, a lot of people are conservative as opposed to liberal. I guess it's just expected that people will make dumb decisions in life.

Because being liberal is so clearly better than being conservative.

Those of us that aren't dumb don't choose a political side. We vote based on opinion and not by party lines.

Beauregard 04-22-2011 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bman8810 (Post 272545)
Because being liberal is so clearly better than being conservative.

Those of us that are dumb don't choose a political side.

Fixed.

The sides are not equal and not choosing a side doesn't put you at some intellectual high-ground over the rest of us. Moderates are the hipsters of politics.


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