Ogre frontal stun immunity as a Warrior

[Healthcare]

So how critical/important/helpful is it? No doubt the raw str/sta is nice but I've never really got a melee high enough to know how high lvl mobs and the stun from them works to know if the frontal stun of ogres is extremely helpful. I'm just curious if you're basically screwed by NOT going ogre as a warrior but say troll or whatever.

[Lukan]

For high levels, raids especially, it is essential. There are very few high level mobs in the game that do not stun and if you do not have stun immunity you cannot hold taunt which is the primary goal of the raid MT.

[Taluvill]

for raid tanks... its basically unmatched

[astarothel]

did the stun immunity's usefulness increase with that change to the arc? I never tried post patch.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

for raid tanks... its basically unmatched

You know, I've heard a lot of people say this, but in all my raiding from classic through OOW, we had an never had more than one ogre warrior at a time in my various guilds and we never noticed a difference with him tanking. We had dwarfs, half elves, humans, barbs, halflings, and gnomes all MT with plenty of success. I did a lot of tanking myself as a barbarian warrior. It seems like there might have been one or two fights (out of all the bosses in the first 5 expansions, and I don't think any where in classic through Velious) where stuns were an issue and we just let the tanks have 2-5 more seconds at the beginning of the fight before calling the assist.

Frontal Stun immunity is certainly a nice benefit, but imo, it is a bigger boon to soloing shaman.

Until warrior kicks start stunning at level 55... and I don't even think that was put in at the beginning of Kunark... the best reason to be a big race tank is so you can slam without shield swapping. In that respect ogres are no better than trolls or barbarians. Interrupting casters in xp groups and while soloing has the biggest game effect of any racial ability imo.

[Auvdar]

2 yaks + a FBSS. Screw the frontal stun crap.

[Zordana]

frontal stun immunity ftw.. i was always laughing at tanks when i saw em spinning and spinning and spinning :p

[twincannon]

frontal stun immunity ftw.. i was always laughing at tanks when i saw em spinning and spinning and spinning :p

THEY SPINNIN!

http://i49.tinypic.com/2pzzk8m.gif

[Omnimorph]

Ogres do look rubbish, especially this one ogre i see, he's an sk, think his name is buttillus? i forget :p

My warrior is a darkelf, because they get the coolest looking velious armour.

[Lukan]

As a former Cleric I can only say that I seemed to spend a lot of time using my click stick rezzing in the DPS classes whenever a stunnable warrior decided they wanted to take a turn at MT. Once that stun hits you start spinning like a top and whichever mob you are on start rampaging through the rest of its hate list.

[Kinamur1999]

Last I knew ogre frontal stun immunity isn't working quite properly.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3144&highlight=ogre+stun&page=3

[Yoite]

eh we had a halfing war as a MT and he was fucking awesome. just need good weapons with hate procs

[Neach]

If I remember correctly ogre stun immunity isn't working on p99, and even if it is most raid mob stuns are spell based which bypass the stun immunity I think. So needless to say the stun immunity is really most useful in grps/soloing situations. Once kunark is out lvl 55 warrior kicks stun I don't see much of a difference in tanking ability.

It also comes down to the player skill. I have seen so many people (who say they have played forever) completely suck at playing classes. Some people just can't rage tank with the best of em I guess.

[Audacious93c]

Code

Haynar: Ogre Frontal Stun Immunity was adjusted to be more useful.


Ogre stun immunity helps you position the mob and lets the Ogre continually build aggro. The difference between an Ogre and other races isnt so noticeable till Avatar of War truthfully. The stun immunity and highest hit points of all the warriors only allows for Ogres to be the tanks at that point and time. Others generally die quickly or cant keep aggro.

As for something a little closer to 2010: Plane of Sky has some mobs that are pretty stun worthy, however their death touch component negates the skill / benefit of any particular warrior. The dragons of Kunark will be where particular tanks will really start to shine in positioning, aggro and livelihood.

[Neach]

Audacious93c Others generally die quickly or cant keep aggro.

Somewhat. good heal chain doesn't matter or hurt. I have played raid war/pally/mage ect... and I have picked up raid target agro as a pally quick as fuck and held it for like 30% of vindi and others health, and done this numerous times when shit hits the fan. not gonna lie its nice to be ogre. It is a plus but seriously isn't gonna make a big enough difference that people don't want you to MT.
Play what you want man.

Skill+gnome warrior > nub/semi with ogre war (fail)

[girth]

Ogre stun immunity works PERFECTLY for non casting classes.

It's the ogres that are used to going in corners to make them almost invulnerable to interrupts that still suffer currently. I had a spell interrupted 6 times in a row the other day while fighting a FG. That suuuuucks, I wish I was a troll currently.

Ogre stun immunity works correctly, its the fact that NPC melee has a base chance to interrupt because there is no 'melee push' currently in game, which being in a corner almost eliminated, but at the moment, does ABSOLUTELY nothing.

[Zordana]

ogre stun immunity works as intended -- also the SLAM (bash without shield) is a GREAT addition for a raid tank imho - you can interrupt mobs alot with that

[girth]

Yeah to be honest the current problem hurts everybody that used to get in a corner to lessen interrupts. It has nothing to do with ogres, its just that people who used to play ogres and get in corners are the ones really noticing this issue.

[Phallax]

Ogre stun immunity works PERFECTLY for non casting classes.

It's the ogres that are used to going in corners to make them almost invulnerable to interrupts that still suffer currently. I had a spell interrupted 6 times in a row the other day while fighting a FG. That suuuuucks, I wish I was a troll currently.

Ogre stun immunity works correctly, its the fact that NPC melee has a base chance to interrupt because there is no 'melee push' currently in game, which being in a corner almost eliminated, but at the moment, does ABSOLUTELY nothing.

Not true, im a barb and when i get in the shit i shove myself in the corner with 5+ things beatings my ass and still get my heals/gate off that I wouldnt if I were just standing in hte middle of the room

[girth]

It is true and you can ask Haynar buddy. Are you too stupid to realize/notice you don't take melee push? It isn't in the game right now(dev confirmed)...mobs instead have a base chance on melee to interrupt your spell casts(dev confirmed), so basically, cornering yourself did nothing to help unless they were casting spells on you that push.

But then again, I've only spent hours investigating this issue and I've only talked to Haynar once or twice about it. What about you?

[Aeolwind]

Is it damage that is causing the interrupt or the bash/slam? When do you get the interrupt message?

[girth]

Bash/slam will not stun an ogre from the front, but you will take damage and it can still interrupt because when mobs hit you they can interrupt.

Here is Haynar on the issue:

Because there is no push, there is implemented a chance to be interrupted by melee hits. It is applying interrupt for a bashes hit too, but you don't get the stun. I will make some adjustments to this system for Ogres, until we can get a properly mob push system in place. The biggest problem with this system, is if you are cornered, as an ogre you should be able to cast forever with no interruptions. A cornered ogre shaman should be tough to kill. Non ogres should be able to cast cornered, with only interruptions due to bash.

Haynar

Since his post there was a patch note about ogre stun immunity should be better for ogres, but I cannot get any explanation on the patch note and from in game, it seems nothing has changed. Like I said it took me 6 casts the other day to get a Disease Cloud(one of my fastest spells) off on a FG because of melee interrupts.

[Aeolwind]

Bash/slam will not stun an ogre from the front, but you will take damage and it can still interrupt because when mobs hit you they can interrupt.

Here is Haynar on the issue:


Since his post there was a patch note about ogre stun immunity should be better for ogres, but I cannot get any explanation on the patch note and from in game, it seems nothing has changed. Like I said it took me 6 casts the other day to get a DC off on a FG because of melee interrupts.

Yeah, that sounds right. Just regular damage always had a chance of buggering up your casting. Nothing better than getting tapped for 1 mid CH and at the end of the cast getting the interrupt message lol.

Stun immunity =/= OMG Never interrupted.

[girth]

I know that, but it was the push of the melee attacks that interrupted you, Channeling made it harder to get motion interrupted. Cornering yourself made it almost impossible. Read this part?

if you are cornered, as an ogre you should be able to cast forever with no interruptions. A cornered ogre shaman should be tough to kill. Non ogres should be able to cast cornered, with only interruptions due to bash.

[girth]

My question now, is what did this do:

Haynar: Ogre Frontal Stun Immunity was adjusted to be more useful.

????

[President]

=/=

Why do people use that instead of !=? Serious question.

[Dersk]

Why do people use that instead of !=? Serious question.

They're aware of the mathematical inequality sign but not the computer programming version.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Yeah, that sounds right. Just regular damage always had a chance of buggering up your casting. Nothing better than getting tapped for 1 mid CH and at the end of the cast getting the interrupt message lol.

Stun immunity =/= OMG Never interrupted.

I believe my memory and experience line up with Girth on this one. I don't remember ever being interrupted from just being damaged. For instance, a DoT tick never interrupted my casting. A non-stun spell, never interrupted my casting. Only melee hits, stun/mez spells, and bash/slams interrupted casting, and the melee hits only did so when they could cause movement. If you were successfully cornered, you limited your interruptions to the second and third categories. If you were also a cornered ogre, it was only the spells that could do it.

I do not have hard evidence on this. It is just my honest recollection atm, but I will try to do some research or perhaps experiment on live.

[Aeolwind]

Why do people use that instead of !=? Serious question.

Most people don't know what != is.

[astarothel]

Most people don't know what != is.

!hard :(

[Aeolwind]

I believe my memory and experience line up with Girth on this one. I don't remember ever being interrupted from just being damaged. For instance, a DoT tick never interrupted my casting. A non-stun spell, never interrupted my casting. Only melee hits, stun/mez spells, and bash/slams interrupted casting, and the melee hits only did so when they could cause movement. If you were successfully cornered, you limited your interruptions to the second and third categories. If you were also a cornered ogre, it was only the spells that could do it.

I do not have hard evidence on this. It is just my honest recollection atm, but I will try to do some research or perhaps experiment on live.

Spell damage was handled differently.

Decent description of channeling, which is more what we're talking about than stun immunity.

Channeling - A caster skill, obtained by INT casters at level 1 and WIS casters at level 4. Channeling can be raised by ALL spell casts, regardless of the spell's type. A high channeling skill will help prevent interrupts from being hit in melee combat. For example, a high level caster can still get a spell off after being hit many times in the casting process.

The point remains, you could still be interrupted even backed into a corner and being hit by non-stun melee skills. Yeah, it was hard, but there are skill checks involved. And regardless of whether you move or not, you could still be interrupted if the dice gods hate you.

[girth]

You are the dev, but I'm pretty sure the dice roll was whether or not the motion that you moved from the melee hit was enough to interrupt you.

Notice that once your channeling skills up you can start to make tiny movements while casting and still cast the spell? That's what channeling does, it lets you continue casting thru tiny amounts of movement; movement that is basically nonexistent in a corner.

[Aeolwind]

You are the dev, but I'm pretty sure the dice roll was whether or not the motion that you moved from the melee hit was enough to interrupt you.

Notice that once your channeling skills up you can start to make tiny movements while casting and still cast the spell? That's what channeling does, it lets you continue casting thru tiny amounts of movement; movement that is basically nonexistent in a corner.

Now, there are 2 ways this could go, and channeling could have traditionally held more than 1 aspect. We've all done the move to stop casting, and magically regained. By that same token, I've taken singular hits in a corner and been interrupted. Technically, we could both be right.

The biggest issue will remain "How did it really function." That we'll never know, we have to go on speculation & experience. We can't speak in absolutes about any of this stuff unless it is something visible. Soandso should spawn here and path here; but behind the scene dice rolls are computer sciences version of palm reading in some cases.

[girth]

if you are cornered, as an ogre you should be able to cast forever with no interruptions.

Because there is no push, there is implemented a chance to be interrupted by melee hits.

Haynar agrees with me. Stay with me here, if melee attacks (not the push from them) had a chance to interrupt you, why was there a system implemented to make melee have a chance to interrupt you? :cool:

[Thorjorkill]

As a former Cleric I can only say that I seemed to spend a lot of time using my click stick rezzing in the DPS classes whenever a stunnable warrior decided they wanted to take a turn at MT. Once that stun hits you start spinning like a top and whichever mob you are on start rampaging through the rest of its hate list.

This

[Kainzo]

It's nice to have for a tank, but it's not necessary.

On rathe, we were #1 on the server (and still are) for 10 years. Our first MT was a Dark Elf Warrior. (mIstabone where are you!)