Poison breath too easily resistable

[Nirgon]

http://i49.tinypic.com/a3nkfo.jpg

I've had more luck resisting Trakanon's breath than envenomed bolt from the krup shamans in seb at the same resistance levels (even without considering NPC level). This feels terribly not classic, especially when you consider the resist check that has to be made casted from a mob at least 5 levels higher than any player. It should be approximately 3 times harder to resist than EBolt if tuned correctly.

On live, this fight was a heal/cure frenzy (even afterwards!) to ensure no one dipped into low hp aggro range to get life tap gobbled by Trak.

The poison requirement shouldn't be that a lvl 55 with just a DMF and resist poison can laugh off this attack.

It should also correctly incur 1200 instant damage, fire every 30s, have 9 poison counters and last 8hrs 20mins at 150dmg a tick. Again, I'd test this but high chance of getting cussed out/gkicked or causing a wipe... not a good thing with enemy guild around :P.

Disclaimers:
1. I'm aware that he dies in second when competing blue guilds dog pile him here. It's about the content, and what I've witnessed in my experience engaging him (happy to log on these chars and prove this to devs).

2. I can't engage this mob and allow it to cast over and over for reliable testing, maybe I've just been lucky but other players certainly report the same.

[quido]

The contention that an average joe 55 can resist Trak's AE with ease is without merit.

[Nirgon]

You stick your nose elsewhere mister! This benefits you btw!

Might I add the low hp/sitting aggro are pretty close to classic and very awesome.

[Splorf22]

At least when I did Trakanon with VD he would usually land his aoe on me with 250+ PR and L60. You do realize that 1 fight with 1-2 lucky resists is not a legitimate sample, right?

[Nirgon]

That's why I'm saying it needs a GM parse.

250+ RP on a 60 yeah OK, parse it out.

Having it resist consistently on a 55 char with 120.. needs a look.

[Dullah]

For the sake of the integrity of the project, would it not be possible to just disqualify ignorant players from posting in the bugs forums when they post nothing but assumption and unsubstantiated claims?

Trak breath has hit me at 400pr multiple times, and with under 300pr it will land quite frequently, even on level 60 players. Players under 60 get wrecked by it. Could post logs of 50 trak raids, but obviously the level and pr of the players couldn't be verified, much like everything Nirgon presumes to "fix".

[Rettii]

Your mad because Nirgon is presenting data regarding possibly trivial dragon data?

All hes doing is showing some numbers and requesting a GM with a testing tool run a few tests.

[Nirgon]

For the sake of the integrity of the project, would it not be possible to just disqualify ignorant players from posting in the bugs forums when they post nothing but assumption and unsubstantiated claims?

Trak breath has hit me at 400pr multiple times, and with under 300pr it will land quite frequently, even on level 60 players. Players under 60 get wrecked by it. Could post logs of 50 trak raids, but obviously the level and pr of the players couldn't be verified, much like everything Nirgon presumes to "fix".

Thanks for trolling, have a great day.

[Yerderlayer]

you can say what you want, but nirgon is one of the only people actively seeking out nonclassic changes that should be fixed, sure he could be wrong at times but his involvement in these bug threads is a benefit to the server

[Splorf22]

All hes doing is showing some numbers and requesting a GM with a testing tool run a few tests.

Except this is not what he is doing at all. Everyone knows that Trak's AOE is a lure style with a -150 resist. If he were posting numbers, he would go to a trakanon raid, ask everyone for level/pr, and post the log of 'so and so is poisoned' and then have a % resist. Instead he is waving his hands in the air and saying 'this should be harder' witih 0 evidence.

[Lazortag]

I think the problem here is that, from an outsider's perspective, it looks as if the hardcore guilds are trying to trivialize trak or conceal the fact that he's too easy, since it's mostly hardcore raiders who've responded (with the exception of Loraen I guess). I think this is the narrative Nirgon is trying to promote, because there is absolutely no basis to his claim that level 55's can resist trak's ae with ease. From the few times I've been on Trak raids on this server, I have trouble resisting the ae even at level 60 with insane bard resists. When I was in my low-mid 50's I literally never resisted it. This isn't a case of big guilds trying to cover up an exploit, this is just Nirgon trying to stroke his own ego and act as if he's a guru on classic eq by saying things we already know (like that the ae does 1200 damage. Really we needed you to tell us that, thanks Nirgon).

[Cwall 52.0]

^same guy who said vox horn is useless on a pvp server

doesn't surprise me that you made this post

fix trak pls

[Karafa]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about claiming you get hit by this aoe above 250 PR. I raided in TMO/IB on my bard and with just my buffs/shadoo alone I resisted literally everything. I kept my fingerbone hoop equipped, I sold off PR gear I had hoarded when officers told us to collect 300+ around Kunark release.

Infact I never even raided Trak at level 60 on Mythoxxus and still maybe twice in over 30-35 Trak attempts did I actually take an AOE. It is something that I think could be looked into, yet I also think that Trak is trivialized no matter what by the sheer amount of numbers and loot saturation present this far into Kunark.

[Itap]

Isn't trak dead within seconds of spawning anyhow?

[Nirgon]

ITT: no one reads my post, especially the disclaimer

A quick test by Nilbog making a gm command hotkey to spam it should be pretty revealing.

I feel like dragon fear is too easily resisted here too. Again, trivializing the ones that do.

I really just want a classic server not a loot pinata for ffs. I'm not just making shit up at random (trolling). I'm also for quite a few changes that make content harder as a result of bugs (well I'm for fixing everything but quite a few exist).

[Dullah]

I think the problem here is that, from an outsider's perspective, it looks as if the hardcore guilds are trying to trivialize trak or conceal the fact that he's too easy, since it's mostly hardcore raiders who've responded (with the exception of Loraen I guess). I think this is the narrative Nirgon is trying to promote, because there is absolutely no basis to his claim that level 55's can resist trak's ae with ease. From the few times I've been on Trak raids on this server, I have trouble resisting the ae even at level 60 with insane bard resists. When I was in my low-mid 50's I literally never resisted it. This isn't a case of big guilds trying to cover up an exploit, this is just Nirgon trying to stroke his own ego and act as if he's a guru on classic eq by saying things we already know (like that the ae does 1200 damage. Really we needed you to tell us that, thanks Nirgon).

Nailed it.

Non factors gonna not factor.

The whole pretense of being experienced in this era as an RZ vet is laughable too. Anyone who played end game kunark-velious knows dragons stayed up for weeks at a time due to lower pop and much higher competition. The opportunity to truly test pve was therefore nonexistent. Better off lying saying you played a blue server. It would carry more weight.

On dragon roar, go ahead and try to resist 60+ dragon roar every time without base 160mr + pot + gmr + bard songs. You gettin' feared.

[Splorf22]

So to be fair I think Nirgon is a net positive force for classicness . . . . barely :p

How about you post some actual logs Dullah? Ask everyone level/pr before you slaughter trak sometime.

[Nirgon]

Yeah since you're this super in the know raider (ya'll gonna make me blow my blue cover up in here, up in here, ya'll gonna make me go all out)

Post logs of you getting trucked by this many times at 400 poison as a 60.

Honestly, this can be solved by making a spammable GM hotkey, #level command and posting the logs.

It's absolutely warranted in tuning this RAID MOB OF MAJOR SIGNIFICANCE that currently, in my opinion, is a laughing stock by comparison.

I've also been on the prowl trying to determine the old Sabbat URL to use in the way back machine to prove my Trak kills and looted mana robe. Any old RZ'rs, please feel free to comment. I sported a full set of resist gear, exactly like you are wearing, was 58-60 for all my kills and clearly recall the shuffling of health bars and my death during the encounter.

I can be sent packing with a 40 second spell spam test. Feel free to tear me to shreds in RNF over it if I'm found to be promoting a bug/inaccuracy over that last few months that I've only noticed as a result of coincidence. I've had it suggested to me that perhaps levels do not count enough when considering resist ... point taken... but again with 150 poison as a 60 you shouldn't be laughing this attack off (see DB snapshot, and matching Lucy data).

Trakanon is a raid mob that everyone probably thinks of first when they think of Kunark raiding, he's also a unique model and drops some very cool shit. Why is his breath attack so gimpy? Look at what the various NPCs have to say about his breath attack :P. Please save this content.

Again, a -150 check spell coming from a mob AT LEAST 5 levels higher than a 60... life taps are a -200 check.. I'm not saying this is lure aoe lure of poison... I'm just saying you should not resist it about the same as a blue con at 60 krup shaman casting EB ... or even easier than that. Gorenaire being many times harder than Trakanon just plain old makes me sad.

This change isn't going to be some change that makes him unbeatable by any top guild on either server. It's just going to make healing a little more intense when engaged with reasonable numbers and overall a more fun fight with a better feeling of reward and accomplishment, especially as a progression kill for upcoming guilds in Kunark who really never got a chance at him. Killing Trakanon should be a badge of honor for a progression kill... filling that [x] next to slain content in a guild progression thread. Not, "lol he was up and we spammed rune and dropped this gimp".


Mayhaps a certain noble raid leader would like to come and affirm my claims

Nizzarr Silvermoon: The only Inky who can SoW ....
http://www.legacyofsteel.net/home/archives/2000-11-02/nizzarr_11_2.jpg

100% resist rates that people are seeing should be ~350 poison, but, mind you the 255 resist caps...

[Bamzal Sherbet]

found something for u Nirgon...

http://web.archive.org/web/20010427115549/http://www.darkenbane.com/victims/index.php3?id=n

[Nirgon]

That's not the old Sabbat hours / loots listed log.

[Nirgon]

This guy (believe he's 60) reports getting hit with 240 poison once (twice? once hit by 2 in translation heh) and resisting it once during a fight. Which sounds very correct to me, source (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp/makoto/200012.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtrakanon%2Bpoison%2Bresist%26start%3D 130%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1536%26bih%3D841&sa=X&ei=SbwnUffkNKTL0QHW5oHoCg&ved=0CGcQ7gEwCTiCAQ). Perhaps someone who is more fluent at reading the dialect on this page (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=140&ved=0CGUQFjAJOIIB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kyoto.zaq.ne.jp%2Fmakoto%2F20 0012.htm&ei=SbwnUffkNKTL0QHW5oHoCg&usg=AFQjCNEy7dvRM0yqbuhofRTcqJBALaxz8Q&bvm=bv.42768644,d.dmQ) can achieve a better translation than the google translation.




SV-P but was ranked 240 in the Buff & BARD SONG equipment and, once hit by 2, AE Breath Resist once was.

[Nirgon]

Final nail in the coffin imo regarding resists past 255 for this server and its era, source http://innoruukguildalliance.yuku.com/topic/940/Killing-Severilious-EJ-Dragon-is-possible:

Resists past 255 don't matter, there's a cap at that point. Used to be that it would roll over, so that if you got 256 PR, you really only had 1. And we wondered why Trak would always land his ae on us =p


Level based and further comments on dragon roar being goddamn ridiculous to resist:

I look at it this way. you can't realistically expect to kill Sevrilous if you're under 57 unless everyone else with you is 57+. I've heard all the horror stories of warrior with 200+ MR getting feared and spells resisted etc. I know you can't hunt Nagafen after 52 unless your guild is willing too let you sit out the actual dragon combat. Go in, help clear the giants and then let them take down Naggy for you but Sevrilous at level 53 is a joke.”

[Elderan]

I killed trakanon over 100 times on Veeshan back in Kunark and Velious. If you had over 235 PR at level 60 you would rarely get hit. Most of us would switch to DPS gear as long as our resists were higher then 235.

Trakanon was never meant to be a healing check fight. It was always a DPS check fight. If he was not dead within 3 (4 if you pulled and waited for first AE) AEs your raid was not ready and would die in most cases.

Trakanon's AE seems to work here just like it did back in the day.

[Nirgon]

I'm saying lvl 55's (look at the quote about not being 57+ and dragon fear from Sev) with 110 should get hit every time.

This needs a test, logs posted and I promise I'll admit any faults.

Observe the corpses at these kills in VELIOUS era (hi2u BD bracers):
http://www.agonyguild.com/events/august2001/081820011trakthumb.jpg
http://www.agonyguild.com/events/july2001/072220011trak3.jpg

You had to kill him fast because the breath (Trak touches that port you aside) WHICH SHOULD BE LANDING would rip you down. It's not landing, especially on targets that should obviously get hit by it every time. I am in *no way* disagreeing that you could to kill him fast to win.

Here? You'll consistently and easily resist the breath.

Dragon roar is another issue :P, 52 melee with 180 magic resist it over and over and over... you could have 200+ and get hit by it fairly conistently on live.

[Nizzarr]

People were barely even 60 back on live.

Even in legacy of steel, we never had full 60s raid until mid velious.

The more you know.

http://www.legacyofsteel.net/home/archives/2000-12-16%5Clds.jpg

thats like two weeks into velious.

Problem here is everybody knows about all the poison resists items and theres some items (blue diamond gear) that shouldnt be here. oh and everybody is 60.

[Nirgon]

Finally a raid guide:
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/maps/

Specifically: http://www.angelfire.com/freak/eqjonze/guides/kunark/sebilis/trakanon.htm


Get 175 PR, might use a few buffs and potions. Too much PR is a waste. Levels are more important for resisting the AE then your resists


175+ helps of course, but this is still going to have a good chance of landing regardless. Hence why having aoe healing and abolish poison available is so helpful.


Clerics use group heals and paladins use their level 55 group heal, at least 1 paladin and one cleric or 2 clerics in each group would make the fight almost trivial.



All healers that are not doing group heals, abolish poison and heal whoever yells or on the main tank.


Notice how it doesn't say "get 235 because it will help so much/make you immune" or "if everyone is at 200 you should have nothing to worry about". It's just going to land on people almost regardless of crazy high poison resist, it is (again!) a -150 resist check from a lvl 65 mob! Right now, I see basically everyone get resists when it goes off. Everyone 57 or lower should be getting hit by this pretty much every single time, few resists if any, the reverse of what I see now.

Further his tap:

A quick fight means his lifetap (not the same as VS by the way) wont hit much and he wont be able to AE as much.


I think he will just proc his tap and it will damage rune and its not the same (prevention wise) as VS from this link. Hopefully it is working this way here, I don't tank him.

I was 60 in velious, fought him and can attest that raid guide is correct. Even with blue diamond/velium diamond jewelry/drape/DMF/resists... I got hit by that Trak AoE breath. With that gear and being 60 here, it might hit me one in 70+ times. Again, test it against envenomed bolt, it is too similar here.


Much to your relief, the prosecution truly and finally rests its case against a very trivial Trakanon on the P99 servers (thanks for fixing shadoo + resist poison).

[Nizzarr]

The trak aoe is fine here. not that it matters anymore, we dodge the first aoe and he dies in 25 seconds now.

It lands all the time on people with 300+ pr, theres nothing wrong with it. Your forumquest is over.

[Nirgon]

It lands all the time on people with 300+ pr, theres nothing wrong with it. Your forumquest is over.

Yeah well resisting at 120 under lvl 57 here, I disregard your claim.

This isn't about how fast anyone kills it or if they should be able to continue it or not. Trak breath and dragon fear here are pretty sad.

It's about the content, which is currently rather off concerning a center piece of Kunark content.

[Tasslehofp99]

My 60 monk gets hit at lvl 60 with 250 to 300 pr...2 cure poison pot clicks and I'm gtg.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

People were barely even 60 back on live.

Even in legacy of steel, we never had full 60s raid until mid velious.

The more you know.

http://www.legacyofsteel.net/home/archives/2000-12-16%5Clds.jpg

thats like two weeks into velious.

Problem here is everybody knows about all the poison resists items and theres some items (blue diamond gear) that shouldnt be here. oh and everybody is 60.

lol look at all those people feared... even 60s in velious gear

[Treats]

Final nail in the coffin imo regarding resists past 255 for this server and its era, source http://innoruukguildalliance.yuku.com/topic/940/Killing-Severilious-EJ-Dragon-is-possible:


Level based and further comments on dragon roar being goddamn ridiculous to resist:

Glad you could find something on this.

I searched for awhile and could never find anything on it ;/

Although one quote doesn't prove the resists were capped at 255, I do think this is how it worked.

[cyryllis]

at level 60 with 250+ MR i get hit with dragon fear. With 322 PR I also get hit with trak ae sometimes. I think you are making assumptions off of a very small sample size of data. Trak dies so quick he barely gets off 1 ae. On live people had less dps, worse resist gear, and lower levels- trak was never as hard as you want him to be, people just werent prepared.

[Nizzarr]

lol look at all those people feared... even 60s in velious gear

wasnt fear, that was the mob ability that made poeple go linkdead, dont ask me what it was I dont remember.

[SamwiseRed]

what is the resist check for the linkdead ability?

[Nirgon]

Fear flagged players as linkdead, which includes dragon fear before you find basis for another multiple face palm inducing argument.

I call shenanigans on Nizzar's pics being related to Trakanon kills or as evidence to negate that breaths did not ever land from him on lvl 60 players with 175 poison.

There are x players in...... you seem to have chopped off which zone :(. Shenanigans.


Oh hey someone with dmf/shadoo getting poison breathed in Velious... in b4 no blue diamond gear or they didn't have resist as a raiding guild clearing Velious content. I added some notes for people with a less trained eye, but did not add the blacked out text boxes.. source: (http://www.agonyguild.com/cgi-bin/events/july2001/ivjuly2001.pl?072220011trak5.jpg)

http://i46.tinypic.com/24v2woy.jpg

Again, obvious to someone who raided the content (oh hey some corpses in this one too early into the fight, man what happened). I'm also NOT contending that he didn't die quickly, notice the comment below the screenie in the source link. Also, regarding what level they likely were and availability of resist gear at this point? This image is from goddamned JULY 2001 into Velious. Luclin being December 2001.



It lands all the time on people with 300+ pr
400pr multiple times, and with under 300pr .

Someone just set off the not classic alarm!


The whole pretense of being experienced in this era as an RZ vet is laughable too. Anyone who played end game kunark-velious knows dragons stayed up for weeks at a time due to lower pop and much higher competition. The opportunity to truly test pve was therefore nonexistent. Better off lying saying you played a blue server. It would carry more weight.

The whole pretense of this... maybe to most people like you who were wondering where to level and how the game was played, but RZ had extremely knowledgeable players (hi there!) handling end game content with big boy gear. I had a wizard epic and mana robe on live RZ during this era. Dr. Jelly-ngton I presume? I don't need pixels here to try and establish myself (cough cough cough).

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1944204/winner-arm-wrestling-o.gif

[Nirgon]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about claiming you get hit by this aoe above 250 PR. I raided in TMO/IB on my bard and with just my buffs/shadoo alone I resisted literally everything. I kept my fingerbone hoop equipped, I sold off PR gear I had hoarded when officers told us to collect 300+ around Kunark release.

Infact I never even raided Trak at level 60 on Mythoxxus and still maybe twice in over 30-35 Trak attempts did I actually take an AOE. It is something that I think could be looked into, yet I also think that Trak is trivialized no matter what by the sheer amount of numbers and loot saturation present this far into Kunark.

THANK YOU

[Brut]

Don't think this is Trak breath exclusive, but moreso something about NPC poison-based dots having wonky resists in general. I resist ebolts from the high level shaman frogs in seb like 95% of the time without bothering with PR equip at all, got like 50-60 going around most of the time and rarely seen ebolt/ebreath land. Pretty sure have resisted them while malo'd also.

On the other hand, lvl60 w/ 300+ PR and I get hit by Trak AE like 9/10 times. So bleh.

There's prob something off with the resist checks when being low lvl / having low resist #?

[Dullah]

... foolish speculations.. blah blah


400pr multiple times, and with under 300pr .


Someone just set off the not classic alarm!



Way to intentionally remove half the quote to argue your "point".

I said with under 300pr, the ae lands quite frequently.

How pathetic do you have to be to continue crusading against mechanics you have no experience with either on live and or p99?

OG players from both Legacy of Steel and Fires of Heavens have posted in this thread with hundreds of kills on live and both claim it to be legit. These same players have endorsed making the encounter harder in ways that put it in line with classic (agro range), but the trak breath does not fall into this category.

And ya, I remember you from RZ, you were not the super star you pretend to be. I previously didn't want to bust your balls and out you on the forums, but you are losing it and clearly furious. Take a deep breath and step back. Either play or don't, but stop trying to compensate for your shortcomings in game by forum warrioring.

Non factors gonna not factor.

[Nirgon]

I'm sure he's great fun here with 400pr and when its resisted at 100 PR range for 51-55's.

Killed on live, killed on blue, classic players gonna want classic.

[Nirgon]

Source (http://web.archive.org/web/20020301050549/http://www.everlore.com/ShowScreenShot.asp?id=178358&pg=2&sortby=2)
Ya, trak has been killed tons of times. He's a biatch, thats for sure. (actually I wouldnt know, I died in 2.3 seconds) Word of advice, make sure your PR (poison resist) is at LEAST 200...and thats on the low end. Mine was only 150 and as I said, I didn't last long enough to even see 1 spell cast.

[quido]

Sounds to me like level disparity possibly doesn't hurt your chances of resisting enough, not anything specific as far as Trak being broken.

Not enough 55s get feared by Sev =P

[Autotune]

Um, at 60 with 230+ pr (every time I've done trak) I've only resisted his AE a grand total of 3 times. Every other damn time I've done Trakanon (and was in for the kill/not kiting) I've taken his breath and either died or had to get someone to cleanse me.

Saying that lvl ~55s with ~150pr are consistently resisting his breath is kinda ridiculous.

[Happyfeet]

Saying that lvl ~55s with ~150pr are consistently resisting his breath is kinda ridiculous.

Ya, I don't buy that either. Just went to my DKP page, I've killed Trak 66 times. Even with the PR/shaddoo stacking I think my PR was ~320 on average (without bard) and I probably eat a good 30% of the AE's.

If you're level 55 with 150 PR and ever resist it, it's just insane luck on the RNG. That's not going to consistently happen, just a fluke.