How you feel about regen vs. stats?

[Quiksilver]

Hi all. I have a paladin who I often solo with, but once in a while I will join groups.

http://zam.zamimg.com/images/0/f/0f062335db3102db5360ff4d544c1de7.png

Dwarven Plate Breastplate [Brell Serilis]
MAGIC ITEM
Slot: CHEST
AC: 30
STR: +8 STA: +10 WIS: +4
SV FIRE: +5
WT: 11.5 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR CLR PAL
Race: DWF HFL GNM
Deity: Brell Serilis


These are my two options. Which, in your opinions, should I go with? Thanks in advance

[SamwiseRed]

brell while fighting, iksar bp while not?

[Quiksilver]

good suggestion. thanks!

[Handpartytowel]

get fungi + manastone for full cleradin immersion

[Quiksilver]

too poor for that :*(

[Splorf22]

So I did a test for Sakuragi where 1 item AC = 6.5HP for CH, i.e. a warrior with 5000hp/1000AC and a warrior with 5650hp/900AC will require complete heals at about the same rate.

Let's assume you're fighting unslowed mobs which put out 25 dps roughly, and that you have 4000HP with shaman buffs as a paladin who isn't max level. 11AC ~= 65hp so you'll be CHed 1.5% less often or you'll take 1.5% less damage. 1.5% of 25 dps is .375 dps, or about 2-2.5 damage per tick. Meanwhile the BP is healing you 5/tick. Clear win.

Now let's say you magically discover Hagglebaron's stash and get a fungi. 15 hp/tick is 2.5hp/second which is 10% less damage. That would require 400 hp equivalent or about 60 raw AC. Which means that even a cobalt BP (+25AC, +140HP) is clearly worse than a fungi tunic for group tanking.

Of course, the more damage/second you are taking the higher the impact of AC. So if you are taking 150 dps from say the Overking than the fungi is absorbing 1/60 of your damage, 4000/60 = 65HP equivalent, and suddenly your BP is almost identical in effectiveness.

Anyway just some back of the envelope calculations. I haven't really done good tests on the effectiveness of AC at high levels, probably because my iksar warrior can't even get about 1k without a shield :(

[Nogdar]

Great insightful maths man, appreciate the effort.

[Estu]

Nice post Loraen!

[Sylexis]

So I did a test for Sakuragi where 1 item AC = 6.5HP for CH, i.e. a warrior with 5000hp/1000AC and a warrior with 5650hp/900AC will require complete heals at about the same rate.

Let's assume you're fighting unslowed mobs which put out 25 dps roughly, and that you have 4000HP with shaman buffs as a paladin who isn't max level. 11AC ~= 65hp so you'll be CHed 1.5% less often or you'll take 1.5% less damage. 1.5% of 25 dps is .375 dps, or about 2-2.5 damage per tick. Meanwhile the BP is healing you 5/tick. Clear win.



Provided ATK vs AC work the same here as it did in live, the damage you take is choppy and sporadic if your AC is below the mobs ATK level, if your AC is higher than the mobs ATK then your damage intake smooths out, most of the damage is on the lower half of the damage range for the mob and you can be kept up by healers much easier.

That math Splorf posted, will only work if you remain on one side of the fence or the other for the mob the whole time, so keep your ac comfortably high and then toss in stats here and there as you need, you'll know if you go too far down in ac because you will suddenly become very squishy against the mobs your level and need to swap out some of that stat gear for ac gear.

Edit: Replied without ever answering your original question sorry. I'd say use the regen bp while soloing, and the plate bp while grouping, the bp provides not just 11 AC more, but Strength, stamina, and wisdom, all stats you can and will put to good use in a group.

[Quiksilver]

Wow, thanks for all the great posts guys.

And yeah Splorf. Well done :)

Ive got all Dwarven Plate gear. But when soloing I like to have a larger mana pool and would prefer to hit harder.

I guess I can try stacking AC with all the Deepwater I have banked (all pieces but legs and BP)

Its just a shame to see all those stats sitting in bags :(

But I guess they are overrated?

[Splorf22]

Regen is simply a ridiculous stat. On Sakuragi with iksar regen+fungi tunic clerics would never complain about my tankability - they would complain about my shitty aggro with 125 dex unbuffed and sarnak warhammer/silken whip vs all the epic monks and rogues :D

Two other things: I did forget to add the effect of stamina for the CH. It's probably another 45-50 hp which makes the dwarven bp a lot closer (but still slightly worse).

Also all of these tests are based on Sakuragi fighting the undead foreman in OT (i.e. a reasonable xp mob at 60). It's a linear approximation. Here is the actual data.

"AC: 1053 Max: 140 (10.0%) Min: 32 (15.7%) Avg: 79. AvgDI: 80. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.43 ATK: 1857"
"AC: 1016 Max: 140 (8.0%) Min: 32 (22.7%) Avg: 76. AvgDI: 84. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.41 ATK: 1725"
"AC: 960 Max: 140 (12.1%) Min: 32 (18.2%) Avg: 83. AvgDI: 86. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.47 ATK: 1807"
"AC: 874 Max: 140 (24.7%) Min: 32 (8.6%) Avg: 91. AvgDI: 81. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.55 ATK: 1944"
"AC: 1040 Max: 325 (42.3%) Min: 110 (3.8%) Avg: 253. AvgDI: 207. PredDI: 218. Z: 0.66 ATK: 3103"
"AC: 1040 Max: 217 (48.6%) Min: 110 (0.0%) Avg: 192. AvgDI: 169. PredDI: 164. Z: 0.77 ATK: 4515"
"AC: 1040 Max: 325 (50.8%) Min: 110 (0.0%) Avg: 274. AvgDI: 220. PredDI: 218. Z: 0.76 ATK: 4348"
"AC: 1060 Max: 217 (41.7%) Min: 110 (0.0%) Avg: 186. AvgDI: 164. PredDI: 164. Z: 0.71 ATK: 3693"
"AC: 680 Max: 140 (19.6%) Min: 32 (7.8%) Avg: 89. AvgDI: 81. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.52 ATK: 1427"
"AC: 593 Max: 140 (20.5%) Min: 32 (9.4%) Avg: 93. AvgDI: 87. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.56 ATK: 1360"
"AC: 702 Max: 140 (18.8%) Min: 32 (14.1%) Avg: 87. AvgDI: 84. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.51 ATK: 1443"
"AC: 515 Max: 140 (23.3%) Min: 32 (10.3%) Avg: 93. AvgDI: 86. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.57 ATK: 1184"

The ones in the middle with 110 are Sakuragi vs Overking Bathezid (some are with defensive and some with evasive). The ones at the end are Loraen vs the undead foreman. You can see that the data is still pretty noisy. Also not pictured here but AC seems to affect the NPCs chances to miss as well. Last point: I can see why people don't think AC works correctly on this server. My enchanter with 700 AC gets hit for max 20% of the time, min 10% of the time, and randomly in the damage interval 70% of the time. My warrior with 1050 AC gets hit for max 10% of the time, min 20% of the time, and randomly in the damage interval 70% of the time. So the only difference is that 10% of those max hits become min hits. And on my warrior I only take maybe 15% less damage per swing than on my enchanter.

[Quiksilver]

God I do love ur maths

[Danth]

"Also not pictured here but AC seems to affect the NPCs chances to miss as well. "

Some AC does, some doesn't. The AC you see on your character sheet is a composite number. AC from defense skill and agility affects miss. AC From gear and AC buffs affects mitigation. This of course assumes P1999 AC operates like it did on Live.

Keep in mind the numbers you post make AC look even worse when you factor in the Warrior's innate mitigation bonus.

I think it's fairly common knowledge that AC versus mob damage output is somewhat off here, particularly at low levels. It probably isn't possible to get this sort of thing spot-on perfect.

Danth

[Splorf22]

Well i should look up the numbers but I wasn't changing agility or defense skill in these tests, just ac buffs like shielding or bulwark of faith and taking off gear.

I didn't play a tank on live but I don't feel like AC is some sort of god stat.

I just acquired a Shield of Elders (40AC) so I will try and do some tests on the Spiroc Lord with and without the shield.

[Danth]

This isn't the easiest thing to test.

My own personal experience is that AC tends to become more valuable the more you stack it. I noticed relatively little difference going from 900 to 1000, and a lot of difference going from 1050 to 1100+. I didn't test hard numbers, though, so that's purely subjective and unscientific.

Your numbers for AC in your post look pretty low for a level 60. ~900 AC is in the range that Rangers, Clerics, and such can hit. Even 1050 is mediocre; with regular buffs a Warrior can reach 1100+ almost in his sleep and can probably hit up near, possibly a bit over 1200 with some work.

On a different note, are Warriors really reaching 5600+ health with Kunark gear? Here I was thinking 4500 was decent and 5K was near top of the line with a bit over 3K unbuffed. An I out of touch?

Mobs, particularly named, in Plane of Sky often have rather high ATK which would tend to improve the relative value of HP over AC. High-end Velious named (hello, Avatar of War) exhibit the same tendency.

Danth

[Splorf22]

I have an iksar warrior; stop rubbing it in dammit

[Nogdar]

I have an iksar warrior; stop rubbing it in dammit

x)

[Sylexis]

It looks like the Fence so to speak, or the ac softcap is somewhere between your 874 and 960, there's still some returns on the AC after that but not as much as the 88 ac increase causing a 10% reduction in max hits and what looks like almost an exact increase in min hits. That's 108 less damage 10% of the time during that fight. Nice info on kunark mobs thanks!

"AC: 1053 Max: 140 (10.0%) Min: 32 (15.7%) Avg: 79. AvgDI: 80. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.43 ATK: 1857"
"AC: 1016 Max: 140 (8.0%) Min: 32 (22.7%) Avg: 76. AvgDI: 84. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.41 ATK: 1725"
"AC: 960 Max: 140 (12.1%) Min: 32 (18.2%) Avg: 83. AvgDI: 86. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.47 ATK: 1807"
"AC: 874 Max: 140 (24.7%) Min: 32 (8.6%) Avg: 91. AvgDI: 81. PredDI: 86. Z: 0.55 ATK: 1944"