Ideas on lockout instead of exp loss for pvp death?

[Smedy]

I for one supported pvp xp death as a counter to bindrushing and having penalty when you die, but i never ever expected the xp to be this slow.

There's one thing we all came here for was the pvp, but considering it literally takes an hour of pure nonstop neckbeard grind to get 3% xp (the amount you lose dying in pvp at 58) i really think we need to reconsider this.

Advantages of xp death pvp:

Reasons to fear death.
Avoid bindrushing in pvp situations.
The grief aspect
More fun for the winner.

Disadvantages of xp death pvp:


Loss of population due to wasted time.
Promotes pve
Gives top dogs huge advantages over upcomers
Makes eq an never ending grind even though you hit 60

---------------------------------------------------------

So what could be done to make this server more pvp oriented and less pve?

Remove xp death on pvp deaths, and add lockout on pvp death instead.

Example: If you die in pvp you'll be sent to a zone where you can't leave for x amount of time, i'd say it scales with your levels.

Lets say you die on lvl 1-20 nothing happens, it's normal everquest without xp loss (Return to bind).

Level 21-50 you get locked out for 30 minutes then go back to bind.

51-58 you get locked out 1 hour then go back to bind.

59-60 you get locked out 2 hours and then back to bind.

To encourage teamplay you can always bring back players from lockout by using ressurect on their corpses. So if you die in pvp, but your friends end up winning the fight, you'll be back once you're ressurected.

-------------------------------------------------------

Benefits of lockout on pvp death:

Doesn't discourage/grief the low levels
Encourages pvp, while maintaining the no bindrush system
Better anti bindrush system (hardcoded) You simply cannot bindrush if you don't get ressurected.
Grief aspect still around for the higher levels (let the lowbies do their thing fuck.)
Doesn't put you in a endless pve grind at 60 (IMPORTANT)
Gives teamplay a whole new meaning

Disadvantages

Neckbeards with more then 1 character might be able to bindrush using all these characters if they have enough of them to last for the lockout period.

How hard would it be to code? Probably not hard at all.

Ideas? I really don't like this fucking grind dogs, and i start realizing that it's never ever going to end on red99 if i really want to pvp using this resist system (which obviously isn't going to change). Not dieing on a pure melee with zero escapability is pretty much impossible. If i die in 1/4 pvp encounters i'm going to have to keep grinding like a fucking bluebie to do what i came here to do.

PVP.

Fuck.

Classic.

Discuss

[heartbrand]

Exp loss on PVP is dumb. Another player took the bind camp train from 60-48 thanks to this mechanic. Bind rushing is an imaginary issue on red99. If you're a caster you spawn with no mana and if you're a melee you have no gear.

[Clark]

wipe it, time for phase two

[karsten]

going to strangely agree with HB on this one

[Jenni D]

agree with all the forum celebs

[nilbog]

If you're a caster you spawn with no mana

When casters spawned with mana, I thought the pvp exp loss was okay. It should be removed since that is no longer the case, imo.

[Twain]

Basically you are asking for ShadowRest.

[senna]

Exp death is what keeps me and my friends from rolling on red

I want mass pvp

Pvp death= more xp grinding? No thanks Jim.

[Smedy]

Basically you are asking for ShadowRest.

Anything that keeps me from having to grind xp over and over dog, i came to pvp not to mindlessly clear trash.

I like having some kind of penalty on death though, i think if you just die and don't get punished somehow it takes a lot of flavor out of the game.

In b4 item loot: Item loot would not work on this server, resists are way to retarded.

[Twain]

On Live, they introduced ShadowRest to fix bind rushing and bind camping. This was after PoP though. Basically, you die and go to ShadowRest and have Rez effects. I think at max level it was 10 minute rez effects? Waiting 1-2 Hours would be stupid. Azrael would quit if they had to wait 1-2 hours to play after each PvP death. I would gladly take a 10 minute time out instead of exp loss. I rarely die so it does not effect me as much but I know the melee hate it.

[Labanen]

When casters spawned with mana, I thought the pvp exp loss was okay. It should be removed since that is no longer the case, imo.+1

[Smedy]

waiting 1-2 hours is way better then to have to grind 1-2 hours

there's nothing worse then pve in everquest

did not know about this, i quit during luclin

[Jenni D]

HOLD THE FRONT PAGE***** THE PVP CHAMP SMEDY IS BACK?

[Twain]

Yes but that amount of time would cause more issues than exp loss. If I wanted to cockblock Azrael from raiding, I would just hunt down their tanks or healers, PK them, raids canceled.

[Jenni D]

true. take out nizzar and nobody to carry nilly through a raid.

[Dullah]

We did VP with 22 people without Nizzar leading just yesterday, and 1-shot Silver, Phara and Xygoz...

[Jenni D]

none of that means anything to the 25% of the community not a member of nihilium

[Smedy]

Yes but that amount of time would cause more issues than exp loss. If I wanted to cockblock Azrael from raiding, I would just hunt down their tanks or healers, PK them, raids canceled.

Well i can't argue with this

Yellow text still the best anti bindrush, watching someone getting dirtnapped over and over and ridiculed in ooc is probably the best solution to all issues.

[Labanen]

true. take out nizzar and nobody to carry nilly through a raid.He really isnt all that easy taking out... But that aside, even though he is good at leading raids, we all pretty much all played this game too much back in the day so we raid just fine when Nizzar isnt online.

Gotta work harder than that to stop us ;)

[mendan]

not classic, not to mention a horrible idea.

[Smedy]

1500$

[Tavrin]

I'd support this concept, as long as it wasn't too long of a duration. 1-2 hours would be way to much, but 20-30 minutes is doable.

I dont think the 3% xp death is really a big deal, but that's as a caster who has tons of ways to stay alive in PvP.

For the melee's getting first shot rooted with 120+ mr, it's definitely a bigger issue.

[Froglok]

one day account ban on death.

LOL @ xp loss, who gives a shit about that

now PvP just got real

[Andis]

Yes but that amount of time would cause more issues than exp loss. If I wanted to cockblock Azrael from raiding, I would just hunt down their tanks or healers, PK them, raids canceled.

sorry I LoLed

[Smedy]

one day account ban on death.

LOL @ xp loss, who gives a shit about that

now PvP just got real

I wholeheartedly support this over xp loss, anything that keeps me from wasting my fucking life killing mindless drones, if i get banned 1 day its fine, i can do other shit and come back, this would probably be a good thing for many of the neckbeards on here, imagine getting a 1 day vacation for free guys, shit's not classic but hey, neither is having a real life on the side while playing eq

[Twain]

sorry I LoLed

The truth is funny. The fact that you guys would probably quit, is not.

[Bamzal Sherbet]

Exp death is what keeps me and my friends from rolling on red

I want mass pvp

Pvp death= more xp grinding? No thanks Jim.


qft

[skorge]

I agree with Smedy. Instead of the lockout why not make it to where if you take a pvp death your character respawns unable to pvp (aka "blue" tagged) for x amount time. Basically you can keep playing EQ pve instead of waiting for 1-2 hours or whatever it is. Then after the 1-2 hours you turn red again. That way you can go back and get ur corpse and shit without worrying about a corpse camp / bind cap, etc.

[Twain]

I agree with Smedy. Instead of the lockout why not make it to where if you take a pvp death your character respawns unable to pvp (aka "blue" tagged) for x amount time. Basically you can keep playing EQ pve instead of waiting for 1-2 hours or whatever it is. Then after the 1-2 hours you turn red again. That way you can go back and get ur corpse and shit without worrying about a corpse camp / bind cap, etc.

This would not work because you would either be able to buff PvP enabled players or unable to buff anyone because you died PvP. Porting someone to a safezone with rez effects would be the easiest solution.

This would also save people like Party, who go from lvl 59-51 in 2 hours because he forgot to log out.

[skorge]

This would not work because you would either be able to buff PvP enabled players or unable to buff anyone because you died PvP. Porting someone to a safezone with rez effects would be the easiest solution.

This would also save people like Party, who go from lvl 59-51 in 2 hours because he forgot to log out.

yea im thinking of the majority of people here would probably quit for the rest of the day if they had to wait 2 hours, lol...that's a long ass time; i know how hardcore nihilum members are, that would piss them off

[Froglok]

I agree with Smedy. Instead of the lockout why not make it to where if you take a pvp death your character respawns unable to pvp (aka "blue" tagged) for x amount time. Basically you can keep playing EQ pve instead of waiting for 1-2 hours or whatever it is. Then after the 1-2 hours you turn red again. That way you can go back and get ur corpse and shit without worrying about a corpse camp / bind cap, etc.

Wow this is a stupid idea. Did you even think this through for one second? PvP immunity that can easily be exploited by people killing eachoter. Want to raid without contest? press the sit button for a while while I shove my...

[Nirgon]

I think it should stay until resists are fixed THEN item loot is added.

Reason being with recent experience: some of these people have 19 hours a day to constantly attack you, this deterrent is for dealing with them.

XP loss is a classic mechanic... just not on any of the FFA PvP servers. The xp bonus here is also added, which was classic on SZ.

[skorge]

Wow this is a stupid idea. Did you even think this through for one second? PvP immunity that can easily be exploited by people killing eachoter. Want to raid without contest? press the sit button for a while while I shove my...

either way a lockout doesnt make sense either, what if Azrael bum rushed Nihilum at a raid and focused on just key members, now the entire Nihilum guild is screwed for 2 hours..im sure Azrael will sacrifice 10+ of their members to bring down 3 nihilum just to fuck their raid night up.

[Froglok]

either way a lockout doesnt make sense either, what if Azrael bum rushed Nihilum at a raid and focused on just key members, now the entire Nihilum guild is screwed for 2 hours..im sure Azrael will sacrifice 10+ of their members to bring down 3 nihilum just to fuck their raid night up.

Yeah and? This changes the dynamics of the game DRAMATICALLY, learn and adapt or GTFO, that's what pvp is about.

[Tr0llb0rn]

I think it should stay

Reason being with recent experience: some of these people have 19 hours a day to constantly attack you, this deterrent is for dealing with them.

XP loss is a classic mechanic... just not on any of the FFA PvP servers. The xp bonus here is also added, which was classic on SZ.


I agree with this. XP loss on pvp death may lead to the need for some time spent in world grinding the xp back, and thats not a bad thing. Keeping people in the world is ideal.

It puts the shoe on the other foot. Otherwise you'd just have random gankers disrupting other peoples PvE at NO cost to them, even if they fail they still "win" by disrupting the PvE.

Its about checks and balances. I greatly like the accountability xp loss on pvp death brings.

As for the xp bonus, it MORE then makes up for the paltry xp loss on pvp death. But thats a whole other thread. (i.e. the xp bonus is far too high right now and it should be diverted into a large grouping bonus, not just benefit solo casters and people being PLed, which is the case 99percent of the time now)

To keep it classic: keep xp loss on pvp death (its classic from SZ). Keep a 20 percent global xp bonus (this is classic, same amount SZ had). Any other xp bonus should ONLY be in the form of grouping bonus, to encourage grouping and not soloing. Solo casters and people being PLed do not need a huge xp bonus, group dependent classes and people who want to group for social interaction/play the game as intended need it.)

[karsten]

This would also save people like Party, who go from lvl 59-51 in 2 hours because he forgot to log out.

hi this is twainz, sorry you made me be a dickhole to you

[Andis]

Nihilum so scared and pathetic (Tyrionn, HB, Saidin)

they CC poor party during superbowl

its ok tho, hell be bak in no time

[Rettii]

Nilbog is right: xp loss was in to stop bind rushing, then later they made casters spawn with no mana to stop bind rushing. The exp loss is redundant and promotes PvE only, we play red for a reason.

Trollb0rn your comment on disrupting peoples PvE is funny because Nihilum is the #1 offender of this. After slaying dragons you guys send 2+ groups out to stop lvl 55's from exping.

[watbab]

(i.e. the xp bonus is far too high right now and it should be diverted into a large grouping bonus, not just benefit solo casters and people being PLed, which is the case 99percent of the time now)

This.

[heartbrand]

Nihilum so scared and pathetic (Tyrionn, HB, Saidin)

they CC poor party during superbowl

its ok tho, hell be bak in no time

Didn't touch him once pal and wasn't even on, sorry you mad tho. The CC was endorsed by the Emperor though and I'm proud to say one of my former chars was used in this great endeavor.

[Tomatoking]

every idea here requires coding no one will do

so lets be honest

who gives a shit? nothing will be done. Enjoy red99 as much as possible and be merry bros. Life is good

[Rushmore]

Keep the xp loss ON for pvp deaths. The real pvpers will take the lost like men and grind back up! Separate the men from the boys. I don't want people logging on to grief with no penalty pounding there chest thinking there awesome! They are not!

[Handpartytowel]

shame is the only deterrent needed. implement Yellow Text today.

[nabsev]

10 min res effect after PVP death > Exp loss

[Nirgon]

shame is the only deterrent needed. implement Yellow Text today.

True... an effective deterrent.

[Tradesonred]

Id come back and grind to 60 again if xp loss was replaced by depleted bars on death. Dont think the removed from game idea is a good one, depleted bars is enough.

Bind rushing, like mentioned, is a non issue. If you bind near a group you intend to bind rush chances are theyll have a tracker meaning youll have to bind from far away which means youre not really bind rushing, are you.

And for those levels without track, well, its classic. Classic had lots of low level pvp, people would make low level alts just to pvp, also a fun classic thing.

Would also make a semblant of an economy possible with all these low level alt toons to gear up, if we cant have item loot.

Im sure theres alot of people who think like me who just gave up on the server.

I gave up but ill bump in once in a while cuz id play again if this was fixed.

[Erebus]

Yeah and? This changes the dynamics of the game DRAMATICALLY, learn and adapt or GTFO, that's what pvp is about.

this is a species argument that can be applied to any proposed change regardless of how bad of an idea it is.

Lockout sounds like a terrible alternative to pvp loss. It would be better to have neither.

[Tr0llb0rn]

xp loss on death is needed.

"lock out times" is no good. A player should decide for himself if a battle is crucial enough to risk further xp loss to continue or not. Not some artificial "shadows rest".

BOTH sides in a pvp fight must always have skin in the game.

Who cares if it takes some grinding to get back xp after being stomped on. That puts you back "into" the arena as a xp'er, and provides for yet more pvp.

The last thing this server needs is to devolve into mindless zerg rushing over and over and over again with zero consequence. And thats what pvp is when it does not involve xp loss or item loot: zero consequence.

People need to stop trying to turn this server into candyland. Enough with the ezmode. Death needs sting.

[Tr0llb0rn]

Bind rushing, like mentioned, is a non issue. If you bind near a group you intend to bind rush chances are theyll have a tracker meaning youll have to bind from far away which means youre not really bind rushing, are you.
.

Good luck with bards who are bound at firepots (and several are). Grief you all day long, zero risk or consequence to them under your system.

[Tradesonred]

The last thing this server needs is to devolve into mindless zerg rushing over and over and over again with zero consequence. And thats what pvp is when it does not involve xp loss or item loot: zero consequence.

People need to stop trying to turn this server into candyland. Enough with the ezmode. Death needs sting.

Depleted bars is consequence.

Good luck with bards who are bound at firepots (and several are). Grief you all day long, zero risk or consequence to them under your system.

Theres only one kunark pot, it harms your argument more than it helps it.'

I, for one, would never give up my pot bind to go rush some people wherever.

[Cwall 52.0]

Exp loss on PVP is dumb. Another player took the bind camp train from 60-48 thanks to this mechanic. Bind rushing is an imaginary issue on red99. If you're a caster you spawn with no mana and if you're a melee you have no gear.

wait are you for or against deleveling someone?

confused considering you were telling me how you'd like to bindcamp delevel another certain player last night

p.s. did not read the rest of this thread and i agree remove exp loss on death even though i am the alpha bard and do not eat pvp deaths ever

[Nirgon]

Yeah bards are really going to die and lose xp if they aren't completely retarded.

[Rettii]

Twainz still dying

[OforOppression]

Nizzar isnt online.



does this happen

[Cwall 52.0]

no not really

[SamwiseRed]

shit sucks spawning OOM with no food/water. if i didnt have forage i would have been so fucked on my druid a few times since im bound in kubark.

[Rettii]

shit sucks spawning OOM with no food/water. if i didnt have forage i would have been so fucked on my druid a few times since im bound in kubark.

Trudat usually u are still full from before death to last u but if u die a second time? Gg no mana regeneration to even summon water

[Giovanni]

Experience loss from pvp isn't that significant, and it should remain. I do hate it when a mob gets a kill shot though due to low hp aggro.

If experience loss is done away with, replace it with yellow text and one of the following effects at random for a half hour:

1) Character is dazed from battle (drunk) and cannot see clearly
2) Character is exhausted from battle (overweight) and cannot run swiftly
3) Character is parched from battle (thirsty) and unable to drink to regenerate mana and stamina

[heartbrand]

Experience loss from pvp isn't that significant, and it should remain. I do hate it when a mob gets a kill shot though due to low hp aggro.

If experience loss is done away with, replace it with yellow text and one of the following effects at random for a half hour:

1) Character is dazed from battle (drunk) and cannot see clearly
2) Character is exhausted from battle (overweight) and cannot run swiftly
3) Character is parched from battle (thirsty) and unable to drink to regenerate mana and stamina

isn't the point to encourage PVP not discourage it? why so many masochists here?

[Dullah]

There is 0 reason to have exp loss at this point. It was different in classic, when experience was so easy and you didn't lose mana, but it literally serves no purpose that leaving a character low hp/oom now. On this server, all the butthurt from dying is worse than exp loss. Exp loss is just salt in the wound, especially while leveling 51-60.

Just take it out, its not rocket science. All these crazy suggestions and theories are unnecessary.

[SamwiseRed]

Enable YT


In death, a member of Project Mayhem has a name.


His name is Robert Paulson.

[Giovanni]

Sadist - I like to know my victims suffered, and I don't die enough for the penalty to bother me.

Risk makes the kills more enjoyable. Look at the death penalties in UO, MortalQuest, Discord, and Sullon versus the option to /duel on p1999 blue. Which rule set attracted more pvpers?

Not all pvp ends in death. I spent an hour training against Salem last week all in good fun. However, serious pvp must have consequences in order if it is to be consequential.

[Dullah]

Except it just turns more people off at this point on a server where a lot of people are more interested in pvp than they are in pve.

As someone with around 50+:1 kdr, it doesn't bother me, but it does bother the majority.

[Tippett]

If people aren't guilded or a DRU/WIZ they will not pvp with this penalty in place 50+

it literally can equal hours of grinding, it's fucking stupid

[Rettii]

Except it just turns more people off at this point on a server where a lot of people are more interested in pvp than they are in pve.

As someone with around 50+:1 kdr, it doesn't bother me, but it does bother the majority.

hahahahahahah gate pots vs mantel 1v1 rogue honor duel

[Dullah]

Post indicative of rage.

[Tippett]

is it true?

[Dullah]

Of course not. Fought him next to king in seb, had a shroom on me whole fight, gate potted at 20%~ he was at 10%. He died, i lived.

[Jenni D]

i smell bullshit (could be your five day old superman underpants mom bought)

[Rettii]

Of course not. Fought him next to king in seb, had a shroom on me whole fight, gate potted at 20%~ he was at 10%. He died, i lived.

JUSTIFICATION = LOL

GATE POTS 1V1 VS MANTEL THE SUPERIOR ROGUE

[hagard]

When casters spawned with mana, I thought the pvp exp loss was okay. It should be removed since that is no longer the case, imo.

Make it happen big dog

[Tr0llb0rn]

When casters spawned with mana, I thought the pvp exp loss was okay. It should be removed since that is no longer the case, imo.

Then perhaps its time for the xp bonus on red to go away too? The only classic red server to have one was sullon and the justification for it was the pvp xp loss on death.

Harder is better, if its classic.

red xp is already on easy mode.

easy mode is the devil

[Nirgon]

Having hit 54, I thought to myself that this shit being a 3% loss would equal to me killing 4 quads of raptors or so.

If that doesn't just discourage pvp altogether for most people, I don't know what does. That said, I'm fine with it being in, but its not a good idea.

Corpse camping is legal here, and wasn't on live, that is pretty fucking brutal already. Low population is pretty brutal as well considering an xp loss on death... then there's lack of ports and people to bind you too.

Also, please change the 8 level PvP range. But only do this when I hit 56 so I can stay in range of Nihilum 60s =). Right now, I can't imagine just being able to go up and tears of prexus a group of 52-55s who are just starting... it was 4 levels for a reason!

And, to be honest, a guild of 52s isn't going to come kill steal your raid mob or contest your shit... but you will certainly be able to grief the nuts outta them if they are trying to level up on the server. I see both sides of this story right now, and I know who will post what in their own interests.

::Insert obligatory risk vs. reward system EverQuest post promoting the merits of item loot and risking resist gear for a huge advantage... pending resist fixes::

[Nirgon]

They fixed aoe's with a dispel component pending update which was a result of Null's changes.. or maybe its in right now.. shrug.

Wonder what might break because of it though. I've noticed that dots do not dispel correctly at times.

[SamwiseRed]

if we are going to stay with the shitty FFA system with sullon zek xp loss and xp bonus lets do 4 level range.

fuck ffa btw :)

[Tomatoking]

bla bla same old thread same old response

[SamwiseRed]

can casters at least spawn with 10 mana for one cast of summon water :)

[Stasis01]

Skipped the thread, eliminate exp loss - if a fag bind rushes you fd mobs on him and camp his corpse - problem solved stop the thread.

[Rettii]

Arzak keeps saying he wants it harder but he's in nilbogs staff and plays for the guild that goes everywhere in packs of 3 groups trains and exploits idontgetit

[Pudge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4mNqoCYQ0Q

bros, i can see both sides of this exp loss debate. but the one thing everyone seems to agree on, is that the exp bonus should be for GROUPING. encourages newbs to make friends and level... gets new and old players grouping to get exp instead of just solo Plvls... makes ppl not ostracize hybrids and tell them to fear kite undeads at the entrance to karnors for .02 % exp per kill....

[Tomatoking]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4mNqoCYQ0Q

bros, i can see both sides of this exp loss debate. but the one thing everyone seems to agree on, is that the exp bonus should be for GROUPING. encourages newbs to make friends and level... gets new and old players grouping to get exp instead of just solo Plvls... makes ppl not ostracize hybrids and tell them to fear kite undeads at the entrance to karnors for .02 % exp per kill....

20 mins for 1% Sounds about right as a non hybrid

welcome to red99 !

[SamwiseRed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4mNqoCYQ0Q

bros, i can see both sides of this exp loss debate. but the one thing everyone seems to agree on, is that the exp bonus should be for GROUPING. encourages newbs to make friends and level... gets new and old players grouping to get exp instead of just solo Plvls... makes ppl not ostracize hybrids and tell them to fear kite undeads at the entrance to karnors for .02 % exp per kill....

bahahahahhaha A++++++++++++

[Tomatoking]

great video tho smedy , this is why nihilum has all the 60s they dont have a problem with that kind of exp they have nothing better to do.

[Nirgon]

Classic xp is slow, stop whining

[Doors]

It's about the journey not the destination morans

[SamwiseRed]

ya im sure frodo and samwise would do it all again instead of just take the birds to mordor and end it.