Taunt Skill

[Nagrak]

Ok, so...

I am not quite sure as too how big of a "bug" this is to be considered, but it is definitely an issue that would be very beneficial if resolved.

So being a tank, a warrior specifically, I am to sustain a sufficient amount of aggro. From level 1 all the way to my current level, I have noticed that I have been able to gain absolutely no aggro from taunt. (yes, my skill is maxed for my level.)

I have done some testing with a fellow warrior friend of mine, who decided to pull a mob, stand there and do nothing, while I stood there and used several taunts. After three to five minutes, I was still unable to gain any hate towards the monster.

The only way I am capable of gaining any hate as a warrior is through pure dps, which makes holding aggro very difficult in a dungeon or open area.

[Jify]

Odd. This may be warrior specific? My ranger is able to pull aggro of casters, tanks, healers, etc with taunt. His is also maxed.

[President]

Ive posted about troubles before, something I noticed again last night.


Level 13 Warrior

Level 10 Enchanter with his lvl 8 pet.

We pulled two bandits, I off tanked one while the pets killed the other. I had the one I was offtanking down to about 50% with a little help from a shaman when the pets killed the other bandit and went to mine. Enchanter pet pulled it off me in about 3 seconds.

[Feittin]

I looked at the code on project eq svn for Taunt while I was looking into Endurance today, and learned a few things. This is only relevant if p1999 hasn't modified the Taunt logic from what was on project eq. I am playing a warrior I find that sometimes I can taunt mobs off others, and sometimes I cannot. So I am not sure if I am seeing the exact same results as you.

Here are the elements I looked into that make up taunt:

1. Hate Added From Attacking - Every attack adds hate even if the attack misses, is blocked, etc. The hate added is according to the the maximum weapon damage. This also includes DW and DA, so if you do two attacks, then your hate is bumped up two times that round according to weapon damage.

2. Taunt Skill - Taunt performs different logic depending on key conditions:

Move to Top of Hate List
Conditions:
A. Not already at top of hate list
B. Targeted mob is not at 20% hp or below
C. Mob's level is less than your level

If conditions A, B, and C above are all met, then there is a probability that you will move directly to the top of the hate list. This probability increases depending on the level difference between you and the mob.


int level_difference = level - who->GetLevel();
if (level_difference <= 5) {
tauntchance = 25.0; // minimum
tauntchance += tauntchance * (float)GetSkill(TAUNT) / 200.0; // skill modifier
if (tauntchance > 65.0)
tauntchance = 65.0;
}
else if (level_difference <= 10) {
tauntchance = 30.0; // minimum
tauntchance += tauntchance * (float)GetSkill(TAUNT) / 200.0; // skill modifier
if (tauntchance > 85.0)
tauntchance = 85.0;
}
else if (level_difference <= 15) {
tauntchance = 40.0; // minimum
tauntchance += tauntchance * (float)GetSkill(TAUNT) / 200.0; // skill modifier
if (tauntchance > 90.0)
tauntchance = 90.0;
}
else {
tauntchance = 50.0; // minimum
tauntchance += tauntchance * (float)GetSkill(TAUNT) / 200.0; // skill modifier
if (tauntchance > 95.0)
tauntchance = 95.0;
}


Add Hate
Regardless of whether the conditions to move to the top of the hate list above are met or not, an additional amount of hate is always randomly added for yourself when you use Taunt. This is a random value multiplied by your level.


who->CastToNPC()->AddToHateList(this, (MakeRandomInt(5, 10)*level));



So basically it means that warriors should always press taunt whenever it is available to add hate, especially when you are fighting even con mobs or higher. It also means that when fighting blue or green cons, there is a chance that no matter how much hate others have registered if you walk up and taunt the mob you will immediate be at the top of the hate list. For even and higher mobs...just keeping on spamming. Can anyone confirm p1999 source for taunt is similar to this one?

I should add that the above is just considering hate generation from the warrior. For the full picture we would have to look at how hate is generated for casters and how mobs react to their hate list, since there could be something that is causing the hate to not work as expected in those areas.

[scumbag]

I think Nagrak's test shows that it's not working like the code in the default eqemu. I've definitely noticed my threat generation sucks even though I'm somewhat twinked out. I'll do some of my own tests later when the server is back up to verify.
http://ww88.org/scumbag-sig.jpg?project1999

[Shin Noir]

Scumbag, what level are you?
His conditions and formulas essentially say this: As you gain dual wield, double attack, and have a higher base level, your taunt skill will increase not just by the skill number, but by raw power too.
As a newbie, it will be unreliable, because the formula makes it better as you level. When lower levels your best bet is to kill blues and even con for more reliable taunt, but even then it isn't the most stellar. Once you get higher, it will be better.

In my memories Warrior taunt always sucked until they got proc weapons in olden days. SK and Pally had superior aggro (spell generated taunt) for the longest time, we just couldn't tank as well so it was a trade off, especially lack of disc defensive.

[scumbag]

My warrior is level 23 and I am dual wielding:
Main hand: silvery war axe
Off hand: minataur axe

[emubird]

I would not base any conclusions on pet taunts, versus character taunts.

Pets in Project 99 are superpets, and do not seem at all in line with what they would have been in early classic, at least. Pet taunt, in particular, is much overdone.

I have not noticed any problems in groups with warrior taunt, specifically. Melee taunting seems to work, or at least it generally keeps hate away from our healers and casters. Players in our groups do not usually overdo things, however, to generate massive hate.

I wonder if some players are expecting their melee characters to behave as they did after taunt and hate changes had been introduced with the PoP expansion. After PoP, it was pretty hard for casters to pull hate off a taunting tank unless they seriously tried to do so. In classic, it was different.

[Jify]

Sorry.. I'm going to nit-pick this. Not trying to hijack! <3

Pets in Project 99 are superpets, and do not seem at all in line with what they would have been in early classic, at least. Pet taunt, in particular, is much overdone.

Ahem. Pets are bugged, they do not duel wield, only double attack. They have NO TAUNT. It's useless, only thing that keeps agro is pet stun + DD. I've pulled agro at 60% casting a lvl 4 DD (at lvl 29!). This makes it particularly difficult to play pet cleric (but generally, the pet casts enough DDs to get agro). Duel Wield is the big one, pets are doing 50% of the damage they should be lvl 29 and up.

<3

[Shin Noir]

They have NO TAUNT. It's useless

I disagree. "Taunting attacking, master". That's taunt. and it works.

[Nagrak]

I disagree. "Taunting attacking, master". That's taunt. and it works.

Even if that looks like it is taunting, for all we know, that aggro gain could just be the fact of the OP pets doing too much damage to the mob. Which makes it seem like it is taunting.

The only people who know for sure are the ones who work on the actual source. Other then that, we are all pretty oblivious to the current state in which taunt is in for any class/pet.

[sever]

Taunt works, and it's chance to succeed goes up as your taunt skill does. There's one kicker, and it's that it only works on blues. Evens/yellows/reds are immune. What i'd like to see fixed is the taunt message only going off on a successful taunt.

For warrior agro, I only suggest picking up proc weapons. Obsidian shards work best for this, and begin procing at level 16. Until then, you're pretty much a rogue.

[President]

Taunt works, and it's chance to succeed goes up as your taunt skill does. There's one kicker, and it's that it only works on blues. Evens/yellows/reds are immune.

How did you figure this out?

[Rogean]

Taunt IS changed in P1999, its actually changed to be exactly like it is on live, which has worked the same way since classic. Taunt is only used as a means to get to the top of the hate list. If your at the top, it generates no additional aggro. This is how it is on P1999. EQEmu SVN (PEQ is not a god damn source code, its a database, stop referring to "the PEQ Source") is wrong.

[sever]

How did you figure this out?

Had someone get the npc down to about half, and taunted an extensive amount.

Yellow Cons: I haven't had taunt work on a yellow con at all yet, come to think of it. Most of my failed taunt experience is with yellow cons, and it's come to the point that i dread pulling one when the time comes.

Even Cons: Same situation here, I can't recall it ever working. However, I'm not too worried about it yet, since in the leveling game most mobs are going to be either yellow/blue due to the con system. It allows a 2-level buffer for yellows, and 10ish for dark blues.

Dark Blue Cons and Under: No problems here, about what I'd expect the taunt skill to do. Works about 50/50 I'd say.

The Red Con: Don't even bother trying as I'm pretty sure this is the game's intention.

Taunt skill is currently at 180 and the issue is the same vs. the above mob cons.

Once again, as a warrior you should really attempt to get your hands on procing weapons.

- PGT has a very small AE agro component due to the buff and works at 10
- Obsidian Shard is fantastic and works at 16. It's a good deal of agro due to the -ac component
- Gnoll Hide Lariat is good aswell, but doesn't work until 25 and your damage output will suck

[scumbag]

Rogean, the times I notice it being useless is after I'm not at the top of the list. When the server's back up I'll try and do some tests to verify it's working like you say but it just seems broken right now. The only way I seem to be able to pull stuff off people is from my damage, slam, and effect procs.

[Shin Noir]

(PEQ is not a god damn source code, its a database, stop referring to "the PEQ Source")
Who called it PEQ Source on this topic? I have in the past though, which I apologize. When your mind downloads them one after another you tend to think that way.

Bummer @ taunt being totally revamped on this server. I have seen a pet pull aggro after that message was what I was implying. I'm betting it just sucks vs. yellows+, which I think is semi justified considering well, it's supposed to be hard.

[Feittin]

(PEQ is not a god damn source code, its a database, stop referring to "the PEQ Source")

Who called it PEQ Source on this topic? I have in the past though, which I apologize. When your mind downloads them one after another you tend to think that way.


I think he is referring to me calling it project eq source. I apologize for that Rogean and will take more care in the future. Like Shin Noir I had some confusion and saw the title as "projecteqemu" on google svn - I shouldn't have left out the emu part.

[Danth]

Taunt never was a terribly good skill. That being said, it seems to work about as well (more accurately: about as poorly) on P1999 as it did 'back in the day' on targets ranging from green to even. I play a Paladin.

It does appear to work on yellows now and then--though that may be a coincidence. At least, a yellow-con mob once turned to attack me when I 'taunted' it, despite my doing damage so laughable that I can't fathom it hitting me due to that. Someone may have rooted it without my noticing, though.

I do not support the ineffectiveness of this skill and never did, but if the goal is to replicate Live as closely as possible, then it appears to be a success in this case.

Danth

[Nagrak]

Taunt works, and it's chance to succeed goes up as your taunt skill does. There's one kicker, and it's that it only works on blues. Evens/yellows/reds are immune. What i'd like to see fixed is the taunt message only going off on a successful taunt.

You would think that no matter the con of the monster, that there would be some chance of being able to taunt the monster...

Once again, as a warrior you should really attempt to get your hands on procing weapons.

I see...Well I figured as much that I would need some weapons that would gather me some aggro, especially to compete anywhere near with the aggro control of an SK/Pal.

[emubird]

I haven't tested it thoroughly with different classes, but as a magician, my pet holds hate from me better than it ever did in classic. I cannot chain nuke, but I can cast nearly at will, without having to worry about pet losing hate. Player characters just aren't holding the hate like my pet does, not even close. There must be something different in the way pets are taunting on P1999 than what they did in classic, the pet just never made it this easy.

[Tenudil]

I believe a succesful taunt added some small value like +10 hate even if you were on top of the list.


Taunt IS changed in P1999, its actually changed to be exactly like it is on live, which has worked the same way since classic. Taunt is only used as a means to get to the top of the hate list. If your at the top, it generates no additional aggro. This is how it is on P1999. EQEmu SVN (PEQ is not a god damn source code, its a database, stop referring to "the PEQ Source") is wrong.

[darnzen]

I played a warrior in EQ when it first came out, and my warrior on 1999 server seems to taunt exactly the same. Greens, light-blues, and blues I can taunt fine (although unreliably since its a lvl 10 war), whites are about 50-50, yellows about 20% chance and reds can't taunt at all.

[Reiker]

Yeah taunt works on project 1999 about as well as I remember on live. If you're a warrior find a couple gnoll hide lariats, your aggro depends on how many stuns you can proc per fight.

[takatok]

I played a warrior on live for about 8 years. I can't attest to how taunt works on the 1999 server, but from the steel warriors boards (which along with safehouse were arguably 2 of the best sources of factual info about EQ) I can tell you how taunt worked on live.

1) A successful taunt put you at the top of the hate list +1. It was never truly verified if taunting while at the top added +1.. because 1 hate was so trivial even during classic it was impossible to test.

2) A failed taunt did nothing

3) Succes and failure generated separate messages. I think added these in would help a lot with people thinking tuant wasn't working.

4) I am unsure about pre-velious, but early in velious they patched it so taunt always failed vs mobs who conned yellow and red unless you were lvl 60.

Bapo 23 mage

[Tenudil]

This post from The Steel Warrior seems to verify that, at least in 2005 it did. http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showthread.php?t=12046