question about classic wow

[Furniture]

so i tried the emerald dream server, and like every other version of wow i tried playing i quit within 10 minutes,

I'm trying to figure out if its worth even trying to experience classic wow but my issue is that its too easy, i feel like im playing a shitty kids game with game genie


My question is do things get better higher level? Is there actually some kind of challenge?

[SamwiseRed]

pvp wise ya. raid wise? i hear wow raids are alot harder than eq raids. not just a tank and spank but thats just what i hear raiding is for bluebies and i only do it if forced at gun point.

[OforOppression]

vanilla wow = pvp dominated by pve geared players, pve that is boring for 7/9 classes

leveling is not easy in vanilla for most classes

[Alawen]

vanilla wow = pvp dominated by pve geared players, pve that is boring for 7/9 classes

leveling is not easy in vanilla for most classes

I leveled rogue, priest, druid, warrior, shaman and warlock in vanilla WoW. Which one is supposed to be hard? Click on the guys with ? over their heads and do what they say. When you run out of ?, go to the appropriate zone on the other continent.

[Clark]

wow is gay

[Autotune]

I leveled rogue, priest, druid, warrior, shaman and warlock in vanilla WoW. Which one is supposed to be hard? Click on the guys with ? over their heads and do what they say. When you run out of ?, go to the appropriate zone on the other continent.

warrior and rogue sucked at leveling compared to mages and warlocks.

as far as leveling in general, it's the easiest thing to do in every game.

[Smilkers]

Did the raiding thing during Vanilla (Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair).

-Molten Core just requires a lot of offtanks and some very simple timing. It's basically a snoozefest until you get to the final boss. And then resists are all you need to kill him. The final boss encounter is pretty cool your first time though, I will say that... (however, I have read the encounter is somewhat bugged on ED).
-Onyxia is a snoozefest if everyone has resists, but again, cool if you've never seen it.
-From what I read, BWL on Emerald Dream has broken encounters, so you won't even be raiding there legitimately.

Two of the battlegrounds (Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley) are the most fun that you can ever have with WoW. The 3rd battleground, Warsong Gulch, usually just turns into a turtle-fest where no team ever actually captures a flag.

In summary, not worth your time unless you're really craving some overpowered PvP as a Warrior or Hunter. They rape every other class (with the exception of Warlock maybe for Warriors)... incredibly unbalanced PvP overall though.

[Autotune]

Did the raiding thing during Vanilla (Molten Core, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair).

-Molten Core just requires a lot of offtanks and some very simple timing. It's basically a snoozefest until you get to the final boss. And then resists are all you need to kill him. The final boss encounter is pretty cool your first time though, I will say that... (however, I have read the encounter is somewhat bugged on ED).
-Onyxia is a snoozefest if everyone has resists, but again, cool if you've never seen it.
-From what I read, BWL on Emerald Dream has broken encounters, so you won't even be raiding there legitimately.

Two of the battlegrounds (Arathi Basin, Alterac Valley) are the most fun that you can ever have with WoW. The 3rd battleground, Warsong Gulch, usually just turns into a turtle-fest where no team ever actually captures a flag.

In summary, not worth your time unless you're really craving some overpowered PvP as a Warrior or Hunter. They rape every other class (with the exception of Warlock maybe for Warriors)... incredibly unbalanced PvP overall though.

you forgot AQ40, AQ20, ZG, and Naxx.

Also, WSG was as fun or more so than the other two when you were going premade vs premade (especially when those premades are going for HWL/GM). AB was fun as well. AV was good to just mess around with unless you could "cheat" and get your WSG/AB premade all signed up in there.

[Smilkers]

^yeah, I quit before seeing AQ, or Naxx. good call. AQ wasn't open on my server when I was playing, and I believe Naxx was introduced after that?
forgot about ZG as well. some interesting bosses there, the key to killing the last boss was not doing any damage IIRC.
ZG was probably the coolest raid zone I experienced in WoW, but I didn't do it many times.

[Furniture]

sounds like a waste of time, thanks for the replies

[Ephirith]

Difficults manifests itself differently in WoW than it does in EQ. A lot of EQ's difficulty lies in inconvenience and being unforgiving. If you fuck up and die in EQ, you lose hours of xp and have to find your way back to your corpse from wherever you were bound. When you want to travel, you need to engage another player. When you want to buy or sell nice items, you need to engage another player.

Most classes can't solo, and most things worth doing aren't soloable even by most solo classes.

Is there actually some kind of challenge?

In World of Warcraft you can have down syndrome and end up 60 in full epics. But beyond that, boss fights in WoW have mechanics beyond "ZOMG zerg the dragon", and pvp has the most potential for difficulty than any other mechanic, ever. Players can think and adapt, and some of them will be smarter or better than you whether you like it or not. I imagine PvE won't really present much of a challenge. Pvp is, by nature, always going to have some challenge.

That said, I don't feel the same nostalgia for vanilla WoW I did for EQ.

[Swish]

Vanilla WoW had a good number of idiots, unlike EQ...and also unlike an EQ emulator I wouldn't trust 90% of the WoW community to run a fair representation of World of Warcraft - there's too many servers with ridiculous modifications and 18 year old GMs.

[OforOppression]

Vanilla WoW had a good number of idiots, unlike EQ...and also unlike an EQ emulator I wouldn't trust 90% of the WoW community to run a fair representation of World of Warcraft - there's too many servers with ridiculous modifications and 18 year old GMs.

dumb.

Emerald Dream is a very accurate representation of classic WoW....

Classic wow just sucked. :\ BC and WoTLK made so many improvements it hurts. Cata was a relapse into all of the awful of WoW, and MoP is slowly redeeming itself.

[jballe3]

emerald dream is all bugged.... check out therebirth.net

if people would actually see thru the population, then well, they'd have population there

[stormlord]

Difficults manifests itself differently in WoW than it does in EQ. A lot of EQ's difficulty lies in inconvenience and being unforgiving. If you fuck up and die in EQ, you lose hours of xp and have to find your way back to your corpse from wherever you were bound. When you want to travel, you need to engage another player. When you want to buy or sell nice items, you need to engage another player.

Most classes can't solo, and most things worth doing aren't soloable even by most solo classes.



In World of Warcraft you can have down syndrome and end up 60 in full epics. But beyond that, boss fights in WoW have mechanics beyond "ZOMG zerg the dragon", and pvp has the most potential for difficulty than any other mechanic, ever. Players can think and adapt, and some of them will be smarter or better than you whether you like it or not. I imagine PvE won't really present much of a challenge. Pvp is, by nature, always going to have some challenge.

That said, I don't feel the same nostalgia for vanilla WoW I did for EQ.
You make a good point about -where- WoW is challenging. At the upper levels! That's another reason that WoW has bred a generation of players that think the game is at the max level.

Classic EQ is challenging all the way from level 1 to max. That's the main large scale difference. As you state, classic EQ has many hard consequences for messing up. It has a lot of repetition too. I think it's undeveloped, especially in the mid-level range and higher. I enjoy the low to mid-level range much more. Thing is, I like corpse runs and all the mechanics in EQ. What I don't like is that they're never developed and grow stale and the penalties become a reminder of its lack of depth. Rather than removing corpse runs and death experience and many of the other things like they did later in EQ's evolution, I think that if someone had taken a good hard look at it all and tried to preserve it while giving players options to overcome plus bonus, it could have worked.

The #1 problem with classic EQ is it didn't reward a player for doing a successful corpse run or surviving a colossal train or successfully managing 3 adds while surviving with just a sliver of hitpoints remaining. Classic EQ has a lot of non-linear challenge that derives from its aggro and pathing and kiting mechanics, but since it doesn't reward you for doing those things successfully and instead rewards you for camping the same spot over and over and over again, it fails to realize its potential. The fun in classic EQ was not in camping the same spot over and over again to reduce dying and/or corpse runs and/or the unknown, the fun in classic EQ was despite itself. It would have been a much better game if it had a viable method to reward players who actually adventured and died and recovered their corpses, rather than penalizing them irregardless. Understandably, since these things were non-linear, it's hard to test them and to figure out what kind of reward they deserve. But figuring it out is worth it since non-linear gaming offers an answer to repetition in emergent gameplay.

Classic EQ encouraged us to avoid the unknown to stick with familiar camps. The problem is that when it became an equation it lost all its dynamism. Camping is the worst kind of fun of all!

When I say dynamism I mean adds, kiting, corpse runs, dying, trains, etc. Those kinds of things added variety to what otherwise would have been a very drab game. But it needed more to make it work.

Basically, EQ "died" when it became about the camping and the game was too well figured out. Maybe if the camps had moved around it would have helped. But I'm not fooling myself. This problem is complex. I also believe that the amount of experience players lose in the higher levels becomes detrimental to taking on risks and exploring. So rather than having some courage, players will mn/max and be too cautious and make the game boring by doing the same things. If the amount of experience lost was somehow reduced or they could gain it back by completing certain things plus bonus, it would encourage them to tackle more challenges. This is the exact reason children don't play cops and robbers with real guns. Real guns would be too detrimental.

The mistake many modern mmorpgs make is to remove the non-linear aspects like trains, corpse runs, aggro-chaining, kiting, open-world zones and so on. Obviously, they do this to better control the variables so that players are rewarded correctly and the risk/reward system is not sabotaged, but the problem is that it reduces emergent gameplay and increases repetition and without large amounts of new content it collapses.

[Bardalicious]

Overall waste of time. WSG/AB/AV get old real quick and arenas are non-existent. World PVP provided a majority of excitement during live, and you simply wont find that on any emus.

Molten Bore is just that... 4 hours of clearing trash for a handful of bosses. Ragnaros was a joke with some resists, especially with the easily-obtained FR buff in UBRS. BWL was not much better.

AQ20/40 was slightly better, but still got stale fast. The only thing "difficult" about vanilla wow raiding was finding 39 other people to log on at the same time for a raid.

If you've never raided through vanilla wow before and you have a few months to kill anyways, go for it. But outside of rolling an endless amount of alts to bide your time, don't expect it to hold your interest overly long. There was a good reason for changing the raid format from 20/40 to 10/25.

[Nogdar]

Classic Naxx sure was *VERY* difficult, I know for having tried.. We could clean AQ40 in record times but couldn't manage to kill more than like 6 bosses in Naxxramas. Many fights were virtually impossible. So yeah, things do get more challenging at higher lvls.

[OforOppression]

Ah classic naxx... I have fond memories of being a blessing bot there

[Autotune]

the only people that didn't like 40 man raids were the people who didn't have 60 friends.

"raiding" with 10-25 people is just retarded imo, I like to see massive amounts of people all dance to the tune of an oversized pixelbeast.

Bigger is better, ask any female.

[Massive Marc]

Ah classic naxx... I have fond memories of being a blessing bot there

fucking rights classic nax was fucking awesome.

not sure which is better, rebirth or emerald dream ( I think I have rebirth installed, is that the one that gives you instant 60s for PVP ?)

anyway, classic WoW was good, but I wouldn't leave it up to a EMU to get it right.

The comment above about Molten Core being a snooze fest: Maybe after the first few months it was, but so is killing 12 year old dragons with 32k HP, yet here we are. AV is probably the only reason I still play WoW(EMU), probably the best PVP I've ever experienced.

[EchoedTruth]

I play on ED... love it! Most of the hate here is likely trolls who just want to hate on WoW.

[Poundruss]

wow's raid encounters are much much more interactive than everquest's, from what i've seen. this coming from someone who raided through most of naxx in vanilla and was top geared on my server until mid-BC.

now, of course i could be wrong in this assumption, as the max i've gotten in EQ was 55 back in the day and never participated in any high-end raids. i'm basing this just from what i've seen from videos and all that. some of the wow encounters are extremely interactive (check out razorgore, first boss in BWL, for example).

regarding pvp in vanilla, it was two things:

1. a complete grind. people could reach the highest rank by spending huge amounts of time playing, without a whole lot of skill involved.

2. as said before, pve gear dominated pvp. the highest level pvp gear was the equivalent of something like the 1st or 2nd tier of raiding. all other pve gear after that was much more powerful than anything you could acquire via pvp (1 multishot = 3 dead people on my hunter, for example).


the game has certainly gotten more and more carebear over each expansion regarding pve. that being said, the skill level required in getting the top pvp feats such as gladiator has increased dramatically.

if you want a top-end tab-target-genre pvp mmo, then wow should be your choice. especially this expansion. it's very fluid and highly skill-based, regardless on what you think you know or what your opinions on the game are.


i still miss vanilla, though. i miss the tight-knit community how everquest had. after they implemented all of this server to server grouping via pve and pvp, everything went to shit, imo. no one knows each other, no one talks to each other. they go into a raid or a battleground, say nothing, get carried via toned down encounters, get their basically-free epics, and leave, never to see or speak to each other again.

that doesn't mean pve in the game is a joke, though. world of warcraft heroic encounters are extremely difficult. it still has it's hardcore elements no matter what people think, it's just that the game overall has been dumbed down so much it creates for some of the most self-entitled kids i've ever played in an mmo. 99% of the game consists of kids who run their looking for raid faceroll once a week, do their mindless dailies and get carried through everything. there's no community, there's nothing but whiny brats. the top 1% are the players that are still hardcore.

[Massive Marc]

wow's raid encounters are much much more interactive than everquest's, from what i've seen. this coming from someone who raided through most of naxx in vanilla and was top geared on my server until mid-BC.

now, of course i could be wrong in this assumption, as the max i've gotten in EQ was 55 back in the day and never participated in any high-end raids. i'm basing this just from what i've seen from videos and all that. some of the wow encounters are extremely interactive (check out razorgore, first boss in BWL, for example).

regarding pvp in vanilla, it was two things:

1. a complete grind. people could reach the highest rank by spending huge amounts of time playing, without a whole lot of skill involved.

2. as said before, pve gear dominated pvp. the highest level pvp gear was the equivalent of something like the 1st or 2nd tier of raiding. all other pve gear after that was much more powerful than anything you could acquire via pvp (1 multishot = 3 dead people on my hunter, for example).


the game has certainly gotten more and more carebear over each expansion regarding pve. that being said, the skill level required in getting the top pvp feats such as gladiator has increased dramatically.

if you want a top-end tab-target-genre pvp mmo, then wow should be your choice. especially this expansion. it's very fluid and highly skill-based, regardless on what you think you know or what your opinions on the game are.


i still miss vanilla, though. i miss the tight-knit community how everquest had. after they implemented all of this server to server grouping via pve and pvp, everything went to shit, imo. no one knows each other, no one talks to each other. they go into a raid or a battleground, say nothing, get carried via toned down encounters, get their basically-free epics, and leave, never to see or speak to each other again.

that doesn't mean pve in the game is a joke, though. world of warcraft heroic encounters are extremely difficult. it still has it's hardcore elements no matter what people think, it's just that the game overall has been dumbed down so much it creates for some of the most self-entitled kids i've ever played in an mmo. 99% of the game consists of kids who run their looking for raid faceroll once a week, do their mindless dailies and get carried through everything. there's no community, there's nothing but whiny brats. the top 1% are the players that are still hardcore.

wow is/was like the easiest game I've ever played. Having BiS in WoW wasn't an achievement. bwl was easy as shit if you weren't playing with people who had downs.

nothing hardcore about WoW at all.

[Autotune]

wow is/was like the easiest game I've ever played. Having BiS in WoW wasn't an achievement. bwl was easy as shit if you weren't playing with people who had downs.

nothing hardcore about WoW at all.

Yeah, Vael was so easy. He certainly did not destroy guilds left and right on all servers...


herp derp.


Or twin emps, or that bugged glob of ass rape, or most of Naxx,

[OforOppression]

If you think naxx was easy you didn't play/raid in classic wow.

[Massive Marc]

Yeah, Vael was so easy. He certainly did not destroy guilds left and right on all servers...


herp derp.


Or twin emps, or that bugged glob of ass rape, or most of Naxx,

If you think naxx was easy you didn't play/raid in classic wow.

Like I said, only kids with downs thought this shit was hard..

[OforOppression]

Okay buddy whatever you say.

[Poundruss]

wow is/was like the easiest game I've ever played. Having BiS in WoW wasn't an achievement. bwl was easy as shit if you weren't playing with people who had downs.

nothing hardcore about WoW at all.

link me your toon with your server first achieves, tier 3, heroic raid achieves (during their time of progression) or glad title, until then you're probably just some random who got carried up until BWL in vanilla and that's about it.

[Autotune]

link me your toon with your server first achieves, tier 3, heroic raid achieves (during their time of progression) or glad title, until then you're probably just some random who got carried up until BWL in vanilla and that's about it.

I'm almost positive this fool didn't pioneer anything in WoW and was carried by his guildmates long after they had already put MC/BWL on farm status.

[Slave]

WoW players:
"Oh you play WoW, what server?"

EVE players:
"Oh you play EVE?"

Multiple server paradigm = literally one of the very worst mechanics in MMOs. There numerous ways around it from a developmental standpoint and it serves exactly zero purpose to the player.

[OforOppression]

yes yes thats all good but unless you have connections into nullsec the game is fucking boring as shit

-eve vet

[OforOppression]

and by connections i mean getting into a corp/alliance that isnt russian or completely bad at the game

[Slave]

yes yes thats all good but unless you have connections into nullsec the game is fucking boring as shit

-eve vet

Just speaking towards the single-server model which does nothing but add more importance to every action you can take.

[OforOppression]

To be honest, WoW has really been working to the elimination of server borders. You can do everything but current patch raids and arenas cross realm with friends.