Shaman

[murcielago200]

When creating a shaman why do people go Ogre instead of Troll (sometimes) when trolls have better regen that is useful for Cani ?

[davedeck42]

incoming 15 page thread of namecalling.

TLDR: make what you want, ogres have best starting stats and frontal stun immunity to bash which is very nice, trolls are 2nd best, barbs look best, iksars get 200 swim skill at lvl 1.

[Netherzul]

None of the racial stuff matters @ 60 once you have Torpor.

If the appearance of a Troll or Ogre is something that you enjoy, pick the best looking out of the two and go for aesthetics. Personally, I really wanted to roll Iksar but Barbarians do look the best and still have a significant stat boost over Iksars ... so that's what I chose.

If you never truly plan to get to 60 and might make it to level 30-40 before your gamers ADD has totally taken over then roll Troll because the regen does help during leveling.

TD;LR - Aesthetic choices if you plan to hit 60 as none of the racials matter once Torpor is acquired. If you don't plan to hit 60, roll Troll.

[Orruar]

Because people mistakenly believe stun immunity means anything to a class that can reduce mobs to bashing once every 32 seconds at most.

[Cippofra]

I picked ogres because I dont want to start in fob. Dont like trolls or barbarians. And I'll never be 60

[gotrocks]

Please use the search function. This topic has been beat to death a thousand times, and its not worth it to go over this yet again.

You'll find *many* threads and posts about which is the best shaman race. Personally, go iksar. Its more of a challenge and you look better than any of the other races.

Troll is by far the "best" shaman race. Iksar is probably the worst (but I rolled an iksar here, had a 60 iksar shaman on live, and i'd never choose any other race personally)

Search function!! youll find all you need to know.

[Loftus]

Just another consideration if you plan to solo a lot to 60: Iksars cannot use the fabled JBB.

[Slave]

Ogre frontal stun immunity is like defensive godmode.

Troll regeneration is more useful from levels 1-59 than that.

Barbarians get the Spiritist Hammer, which isn't great, but it's better than

Iksar. The worst race for Shaman by far. They get regeneration but no Jaundiced Bone.

[Mayhem2]

Ogre frontal stun immunity is like defensive godmode.

Troll regeneration is more useful from levels 1-59 than that.

Barbarians get the Spiritist Hammer, which isn't great, but it's better than

Iksar. The worst race for Shaman by far. They get regeneration but no Jaundiced Bone.

+1 , Ogre's survive shit that other races don't.

I'm sure people will come in here and post about using bash timers, etc.

That kind of logic is like saying, "I'm a good driver, I will never be in an accident".

[Netherzul]

I'll survive just as long as an Ogre, as a Barbarian. The only difference would be that I made surviving that long, look good.

[Mayhem2]

I'll survive just as long as an Ogre, as a Barbarian. The only difference would be that I made surviving that long, look good.

Liar.... You don't fight to look good, you fight to win.

[gotrocks]

Ogre stun immunity is highly overrated.

Again, this has been discussed over and over, but ogre frontal stun immunity will actually save your ass about as many times as you have fingers on one hand. It's absolutely a useful skill, its just not "defensive god mode" as someone put it.

If you don't agree, please post some situations where that ogre stun immunity is going to save your life/make a significant difference, because once again, this topic has been drilled into the ground over and over. Frontal stun immunity is good, its just not as great as everyone makes it out to be. Your casting is still going to get interupted. furthermore, if you're really meleeing that much, your mob should be slowed and bashing very infrequently.

That being said, ogre is still a solid pick. Its just not as good as troll.

Iksar by far the worst because they have poor itemization until Velious. After velious they are arguably the best shamans, or at least on par with everyone else. The thing to remember here is that there is no bad shaman race. They all kick serious ass. Period.

Now, after all that, I will say this. Iksars are the most badass - they look the best, are the best challenging, and kick the most ass. Roll an iksar if you want to be a pimp. That is all.

[galvaunis]

Stun immunity on its own isn't defensive god mode, but I would argue that stun immunity and backing up to a 90 degree corner IS. Most of my experience is post classic, but in places like griegs and BoT (many many 90 degree corners) ogre casters thrive.

The other situation in which stun immunity is helpful is as a tank. You can't parry, dodge, riposte etc. while stunned (unless using disc???). But this is less of a concern for shaman as they don't get many mitigation skills and they don't cap as high.

[davedeck42]

again, if it is able to be argued (legitimately) by both sides ad nauseum then you really should just pick the one you want.

[skorge]

Now, after all that, I will say this. Iksars are the most badass - they look the best, are the best challenging, and kick the most ass. Roll an iksar if you want to be a pimp. That is all.

Read some of my other posts...the racial trait, regen, that trolls and iksars get is a trait that is ALWAYS in effect. The ogre trait is rarely put to use. It's a good trait just not used as much. For the average player playing a shaman, troll is going to be your best pick.

Iksars are going to be your worst even in Velious. The lack of no JBB is the reason. JBB is one of the best items in the game, even in Velious. Free 250+ damage, means you can kill mobs mana free...that is priceless. JBB really helps when helping friends pl, camp items, etc. The iksar will never have that option.

[Slave]

If you don't agree, please post some situations where that ogre stun immunity is going to save your life/make a significant difference,

Any time you aggro more than one mob, it makes an enormous difference in survivability. The way that mobs bash now, just two mobs can easily spell your doom at high levels. Now let's see, does anyone ever get any unintended adds in EverQuest?

[HippoNipple]

Ogres are best at any class they can be.

[Orruar]

Any time you aggro more than one mob, it makes an enormous difference in survivability. The way that mobs bash now, just two mobs can easily spell your doom at high levels. Now let's see, does anyone ever get any unintended adds in EverQuest?

Yeah, 4 mobs at once in HS south is difficult. I'm a barb. Any ogre shamans soloing HS south regularly yet?

[gotrocks]

Read some of my other posts...the racial trait, regen, that trolls and iksars get is a trait that is ALWAYS in effect. The ogre trait is rarely put to use. It's a good trait just not used as much. For the average player playing a shaman, troll is going to be your best pick.

Iksars are going to be your worst even in Velious. The lack of no JBB is the reason. JBB is one of the best items in the game, even in Velious. Free 250+ damage, means you can kill mobs mana free...that is priceless. JBB really helps when helping friends pl, camp items, etc. The iksar will never have that option.
lol skorge i agreed with you.

all my posts on this topic in multiple threads state troll = win, iksar = fail.


that being said, i love my iksar shaman. always have, always will. loved it on live and i love it here. it is clearly the worst race because of lack of jbb. period. ive never argued to the contrary on this point :)

again, to all the people riding ogre's nuts, listen to this guy. listen to klubba. troll > ogre. period.

**edit** just reread my post and i did say iksars would arguably be the best, or on par, with trolls. You're right thats not true (was really tired last night), but iksars dont fall that far behind even w/o jbb. There is no bad shaman race, i believe that 100%. Iksar is just going to be more challenging than the rest. But they're the coolest =P

[Slave]

Yeah, 4 mobs at once in HS south is difficult. I'm a barb. Any ogre shamans soloing HS south regularly yet?

Barbarians have the Spiritist Hammer. That's pretty much literally it besides Imbued Granite Spauldors. And if you were using the Hammer, that greatly affects your AC, which just about destroys its usefulness 55+ in my opinion.

Get out of here with Barbarian. You are unquestionably the third-place Shaman race.

[xarzzardorn]

Honeypot thread plz

[Massive Marc]

Barbarians have the Spiritist Hammer. That's pretty much literally it besides Imbued Granite Spauldors. And if you were using the Hammer, that greatly affects your AC, which just about destroys its usefulness 55+ in my opinion.

Get out of here with Barbarian. You are unquestionably the third-place Shaman race.

They also have higher starting Wisdom, which was pretty useful leveling up. They also look better then any other shaman class. The Hammer is non-factor really. Also, Barbs are not evil, have much easier time banking/traveling. Small exp penalty.

There is benefits to playing a barb, mainly the ones I outlined above, but If i were to start again (I have a 57 barb shm) I'd 100% start as a troll.

[rekreant]

Isnt it basically that if you have at least a fungi shamans are the most op lvling early on?

[rekreant]

They also have higher starting Wisdom, which was pretty useful leveling up. They also look better then any other shaman class. The Hammer is non-factor really. Also, Barbs are not evil, have much easier time banking/traveling. Small exp penalty.

There is benefits to playing a barb, mainly the ones I outlined above, but If i were to start again (I have a 57 barb shm) I'd 100% start as a troll.

do starting stats really matter? With a full twink stat its not hard to get over 200 in any stat, unless youre a DE warrior.

[Slave]

do starting stats really matter? With a full twink stat its not hard to get over 200 in any stat, unless youre a DE warrior.

Yes, in that Ogres and Trolls have massive amounts of Stamina and Strength on Barbarians and Iksar. The faction thing really doesn't matter. Looks are also highly subjective. The experience penalty is an issue, however, because Ogres get the most bang for the buck as well:

______________JBB______________Stun Immune________Regen_________Penalty
Ogre___________x___________________x______________ ________________15%
Troll___________x_________________________________ ____x____________20%
Barbarian_______x_________________________________ __________________5%
Iksar_____________________________________________ ___x_____________20%

If Regeneration = Stun Immune, then the Ogre is the best Shaman race due to experience penalty and superior attributes.

[phobus]

If such a thing as a Gnome Shaman existed, someone would roll that too. And they'd still be able to do amazing stuff solo - the class is that powerful. In my very humble opinion, the racial traits available as a Shaman are just icing on an already very tasty cake.

Yeah, 4 mobs at once in HS south is difficult. I'm a barb. Any ogre shamans soloing HS south regularly yet?

As for you, Mister Orruar, I present to you: six mobs! Okay, so it was in North. I'm not 60 yet! :)

http://i.imgur.com/AqgJPl.jpg (http://imgur.com/AqgJP)

[Hroth]

Look at the evidence -

Klubba, troll, won shaman BotB

Svenn, barbarian, tops the list of the solo challenge thread

Conclusion, race doesn't really matter. Ogre frontal stun immunity is not a god mode defensive trait. In very rare instances could it possibly save you, sure, but then having the extra regen of a troll/iksar during a long fight could be what saves you too.

Pick whatever you think looks best. For me, that was troll.

[Elements]

Look at the evidence -

Klubba, troll, won shaman BotB

Svenn, barbarian, tops the list of the solo challenge thread

Conclusion, race doesn't really matter. Ogre frontal stun immunity is not a god mode defensive trait. In very rare instances could it possibly save you, sure, but then having the extra regen of a troll/iksar during a long fight could be what saves you too.

Pick whatever you think looks best. For me, that was troll.

But what if I think iksars look best but they cant use the fabled JBB? what then?

[gotrocks]

But what if I think iksars look best but they cant use the fabled JBB? what then?

already been stated a bunch of times that if you go iksar, you are in for a challenge.

its a fact that you are at a huge disadvantage not having a jbb.

Some people want to play iksar anyway, and they will do just fine. Many people (including myself) played them to 60 either here or on live. If you really want an iksar, go iksar, and you'll do fine.

No guild is going to reject you because you're a shaman without jbb. they're going to reject you because you're a shaman and they already have 20 active versions of you.