Enchanter race/deity

[ForeverLost]

I know it's somewhat expected that enchanters choose to be agnostic, but what does this really have an impact on? I've never really played an enchanter, but I know that they are able to quest for their stein of moggok at a very early level. Is the religion thing a factor in any quest, really? I like to pick a deity when able, because it's kind of fun.

What would be the downside to worshiping bertox/inny? What about quellious, tunare, or erollisi?

And I wanted to ask about race mostly for information on the charisma stat. Figured I would put 20 into cha and 5 into int because I plan on soloing a lot (starting up on PvP server again). Would it be a huge mistake to go with gnome or dark elf, because of the low charisma? I know enchanters get whatever illusions they want, but race really does matter still...

[Lexical]

Some of the best solo enchanters on this server are gnome enchanters so there is that.

[Furniture]

I've always heard dark elves make the best enchanters due to you being able to hide and break your charmed pet. Also the reason you want to be agnostic is because having a deity will mess with your factions so you wont be able to use an illusion and go to a certain part of a city which you otherwise would be able to if you were agnostic , limiting what you can do

[Lexical]

Brell would be the only deity I would consider as an enchanter since it is the closest to agnostic.

[ForeverLost]

I've always heard dark elves make the best enchanters due to you being able to hide and break your charmed pet. Also the reason you want to be agnostic is because having a deity will mess with your factions so you wont be able to use an illusion and go to a certain part of a city which you otherwise would be able to if you were agnostic , limiting what you can do

On live my bard had a invis vs. animals ring to break charm without issue. Can't I just get one of those, or was that a Velious item? Hide seems pretty unreliable when I use it.

And if deity only affects towns to sell, buy and bank in, then it hardly seems like a big deal at all. Are there any quests I would be unable to do if I chose a deity, does anyone know?

Brell would be the only deity I would consider as an enchanter since it is the closest to agnostic.

But why?

[Lexical]

But why?

Go inny and that will tell you why.

Edit because I felt bad: Your spells are spread out across Norrath. Your illusions are in Erudin mostly and your pet spells are in HK and your enchant metals are in Neriak etc. etc. This is common knowledge and due to their spells being so far spread, it is important for an enchanter to be able to freely walk around any city they choose. Brell as far as I know only has trouble with ogre SKs which is not entirely important as that guild is easily avoided.

Another edit: I forgot the biggest PIA to buy from: brownies

[ForeverLost]

Go inny and that will tell you why.

I've played several inny characters in the past, it's really not a big deal. I don't really care if I'm unable to bank or sell in some towns, what I really want to know is if anything major is affected by this. Some faction issue that actually matters for some sort of enchanter quest, or something.

Thinking I might go human bertox enchanter.

[Lexical]

See my edit.

[Lexical]

Thinking I might go human bertox enchanter.

Try it :)

[-Catherin-]

having a diety as a chanter only serves to hurt you, and in no way really helps you. so there isnt really a point for having a diety unless you are dead set on it for roleplaying purposes.

as far as race and cha stat goes. some people will try to tell you that cha makes a big difference in charming. it does not. While it has an impact it is very minimal, and your largest impacts will be your level vs the mob, and the mobs magic resistance. Race choice isnt going to make or break you due to CHA differences

[Slave]

I've always heard dark elves make the best enchanters due to you being able to hide and break your charmed pet.

I would rather say that the Dark Elves make the best Enchanters due to being able to Hide, and then AFK. That's far more than any other race can possibly give you as an Enchanter.

[Handull]

how a mob cons to you is based on a lot of factors, race and deity being two of them. encs can change into any race, giving them a nice faction boost, but deity can't be changed. in some cases, the negative hit from having a deity is too much to overcome by changing your race. its not a make-or-break thing, but being able to go everywhere as an enc is a big plus.

hide is convenient for sure when you want to afk. for race just go with whatever you like imo, its not such a big deal, especially for an enc.

[ForeverLost]

having a diety as a chanter only serves to hurt you, and in no way really helps you.

I realize this, but would really like to be clear about exactly how it hurts an enchanter. Lexical said that it impacts which spells are easy to buy, but that seems like something that would just be a minor annoyance and not a gamebreaker. Everyone seems to feel that enchanters are screwing themselves over if they don't choose agnostic (or at least a very neutral deity), but so far no one has really explained why. It kinda makes me think this agnostic thing is really blown out of proportion, and mostly a myth.

I would rather say that the Dark Elves make the best Enchanters due to being able to Hide, and then AFK. That's far more than any other race can possibly give you as an Enchanter.

Doesn't really work on PvP server :P

[Lexical]

How about for your epic then if not easily getting major spell lines affects your judgement?

Honestly though, I really want you to roll the Human/Tox ench. I think it would be fun and definitely give you a challenge.

[-Catherin-]

not sure how people can be any clearer than what they already have said if you just read the posts. nobody claimed it was game breaking. You just lose some of your freedoms by going with a diety for nothing in return. thats why most enchanters go agnostic. What I am getting from your posts is that you pretty much already had your mind made up before you even asked the question, and all you are really looking for is for someone to agree with your point of view. Just do what you want to do

[Lexical]

I think he is trolling honestly. I especially suspected it when he suggested a Human/Tox combo for the Enchanter.

[ForeverLost]

How about for your epic then if not easily getting major spell lines affects your judgement?

I'm not sure what all the enchanter epic quest entails, but if I need to do some faction work in the future it shouldn't be a huge deal. I've gotten several evil characters to be accepted in good cities in the past.

not sure how people can be any clearer than what they already have said if you just read the posts. nobody claimed it was game breaking. You just lose some of your freedoms by going with a diety for nothing in return. thats why most enchanters go agnostic.

I'm just looking for information. Specifics. Like: "Going bertox will make it so that you cannot do the stein of moggok quest, because you need a minimum indifferent faction with x to do y turn in."

That kinda thing. You say I'd be limiting my freedoms, but that's such a broad statement I don't really understand what you mean. A bertox enchanter would be KoS in Felwithe, or what?

What I am getting from your posts is that you pretty much already had your mind made up before you even asked the question, and all you are really looking for is for someone to agree with your point of view. Just do what you want to do

Again, I was asking for information, not validation. My mind was made up about going with a deity, but I wasn't sure which one, and I'm still not. I don't know how being evil vs. being good pans out in terms of enchanter gameplay. I think it's between bertox, quellious and erollisi marr.

I think he is trolling honestly. I especially suspected it when he suggested a Human/Tox combo for the Enchanter.

I'm trolling because I like deities, and want to understand how choosing one will affect me? :s

[-Catherin-]

highly doubt you will get answers that specific. mainly because you will be hard pressed to find any enchanter following a diety, especially an evil one.

generally speaking if you follow a "good" diety you will have issues entering evil cities, whether you have an illusion or not, the same goes vice versa.

if you want anything more specific than that you are prolly going to have to find out for yourself

[Lexical]

I'm trolling because I like deities, and want to understand how choosing one will affect me? :s

No, you are trolling because you propose a question based on merits, then when you received a very clear answer, you discarded it and did the direct opposite.

Seriously though, run the tox enchanter.

Edit: Please make a video when you try to do the Exotic Drinks quest. Typically, enchanters run it at 8.

Another edit because I just can't stay away: I am hysterical about the Tox worshiping enchanter. It really is quite funny honestly so kudos to you sir. I actually want to test out if you are even able to buy your starting spells........

[ArumTP]

Tox cleric here. Im kos in paineel, ogres, trolls, iksar, and the dead faction in neriak maybe someothers.

Mixed bag of unkown in the elf cities (i can con the ones in dagnors i am dubious)

Ok in everywhere else

[Lexical]

Did a quick run around in qeynos as a tox enchanter. You are amiable in the caster guilds, apprehensive to good guards, and indifferent to merchants.

Are you fine in Erudin and Felwithe Arum? I think Tox worshippers con dubious in Ak'Anon if my memory serves me correctly since the evil gnomes worship tox, but I find it surprising that all the fab 4 would be dubious without any faction work on your part.

Edit: Removed my derp. :(

[rekreant]

having a diety as a chanter only serves to hurt you, and in no way really helps you. so there isnt really a point for having a diety unless you are dead set on it for roleplaying purposes.

as far as race and cha stat goes. some people will try to tell you that cha makes a big difference in charming. it does not. While it has an impact it is very minimal, and your largest impacts will be your level vs the mob, and the mobs magic resistance. Race choice isnt going to make or break you due to CHA differences

Dont listen to this AT ALL. this is 100% incorrect. Charisma has a direct correlation to how long your charm lasts. If you are under 200 you are severely hampering yourself.

[-Catherin-]

yes im a 60 chanter who charms all the time but i know nothng :)

[Growlers]

This info looks pretty solid.


Vermicelli
Enchanter CHA
This was originally posted in General Chat, but I didn't want such a good discussion to slip into the yawning depths of the back pages!

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=55223

I feel that the most important thing to take from the thread is

Quote:
Originally Posted by A1551
Ok so I grabbed a cleric (thanks Kriven) and charmed goos in COM, and the results were very striking.

First, I found a pet who was just on the cusp of charming viability. At level 52 I grabbed a goo hitting for 116. Prior to this we tried a goo hitting for 120 but even with full charisma gear could not keep it charmed with duration good enough to exp reliably. This choice was intentional, because what I really care about is keeping the best mob I can for as long as I can. I'm sure results would be very different for a light blue mob. On every break the mob was tashed and re-charmed. I just pulled all the data out of my log file after our session and crunched it all using excel. results are as follows:

High Charisma dataset (CHA = 224)
Time of trial: 0:40:18 (or 0.672 hours)
Breaks: 7
Breaks per hour(extrapolated): 10.42
Avg Duration: 5.76 minutes
Median Duration: 3 minutes 10 seconds

Low Charisma dataset (CHA = 95)
Time of trial: 0:58:04 (0.968 hours)
Breaks: 25
Breaks per hour(extrapolated): 25.83
Avg Duration: 2.32 minutes
Median Duration: 1 minute 4 seconds

So conclusion -- charisma has a massive effect on charm duration when charming mobs at the high end of the "viable pet level" spectrum at level 52 in this dataset. In this case, I had almost 2.5 times more breaks per hour (10 to 25) with 95 charisma vs. my normal charisma of 224. This translated into more than doubling my charm durations on average (2.32 minutes with low charisma boosted up to 5.76 minutes with 224 cha). Even with a few caveats discussed below, I'd say the numbers speak for themselves. The cleric I worked with (who didn't specifically know which data set was which) pretty much figured out within three minutes when I had pulled off my charisma gear, and didn't even want to keep going as it was so clear cut. I forced him to deal with my lower charisma for another 55 minutes.

As to the caveats -- first, I have no qualms whatsoever about the one hour duration of the low charisma set. Breaks came so fast and so consistently I am confident to say I could repeat that set a million times and get pretty similar results. However, my high charisma set was probably too short, which is compounded by the much less frequent breaks meaning there's less data to look at. We were working on a very short time window before he had to go. I think the high charisma set durations are fairly accurate overall but I could see the numbers changing there more significantly if the test was repeated. Regardless, it is extremely unlikely they would shift enough to call the conclusion into question.

Second, a few goofs in the experiment. During the low charisma set higher level enchanters came by and twice tash'ed my pet w/ their better tash (they saw how often I was breaking and wanted to help!). This means that for a significant portion of the "low" test my pet actually had lower MR (and assumedly a reduced break chance) vs. my high test. Fortunately this really has no relevance on the conclusions.

Finally, something else I found interesting. Based on each charms individual duration breaks are definitely weighted to the early side of the spectrum. The median duration for both sets was significantly lower vs. the average (Median was 3:10 for high and 1:04 for low). So it is not just our imagination that pets seem to behave forever and then suddenly break repeatedly. Charms tend to break early and often, but once they've lasted a few minutes tend to keep lasting (ie become more stable).

I'd like to repeat this with longer durations, and CHA 200 vs 255 to determine how charisma over 200 helps, but no promises I'll have the motivation I expect the differences will not be nearly as stark, meaning much longer sample times to see a meaningful pattern.

-Propo Fol
Woohoo!

[-Catherin-]

yeah ive seen this post before and i agree that its a good arguement for CHA having a massive effect. Thing is ive personally never been able to duplicate it myself to such a degree so i consider it a one off.

Im not saying that CHA has absolutely no impact, it does. And when i have the opportunity to raise my CHA, i will. But what i dont accept is that CHA impacts charming to such a degree that i will sacrifice other stats (mainly hp pool) for more of it

[ForeverLost]

Did a quick run around in qeynos as a tox enchanter. You are amiable in the caster guilds, apprehensive to good guards, and indifferent to merchants.

Are you fine in Erudin and Felwithe Arum? I think Tox worshippers con dubious in Ak'Anon if my memory serves me correctly since the evil gnomes worship tox, but I find it surprising that all the fab 4 would be dubious without any faction work on your part.

Edit: Removed my derp. :(

My bertox gnome rogue is fine in Felwithe, so unless high elves hate enchanters or humans I don't see this being an issue.

I think I've decided to go human bertox just so I can figure out exactly why everyone makes such a big deal over going agnostic. I'm really curious how I'll fare in Erudin, Paineel, Surefall, Grobb, Ogguk, Neriak, Rivervale, FV and OT outpost. Picking an evil deity, but not going with inny, might make things difficult in the evil cities because only neutral races like bertox. And there have to be some good people that hate bertox and would kill me. Bertox really seems like it would be the worst deity for an enchanter to follow.

[Lexical]

My bertox gnome rogue is fine in Felwithe, so unless high elves hate enchanters or humans I don't see this being an issue.

I think I've decided to go human bertox just so I can figure out exactly why everyone makes such a big deal over going agnostic. I'm really curious how I'll fare in Erudin, Paineel, Surefall, Grobb, Ogguk, Neriak, Rivervale, FV and OT outpost. Picking an evil deity, but not going with inny, might make things difficult in the evil cities because only neutral races like bertox. And there have to be some good people that hate bertox and would kill me. Bertox really seems like it would be the worst deity for an enchanter to follow.

Yeah, it seems that class has a much larger impact on faction than religion than I originally thought. Religion actually seems to have a lot less of an impact than I remember from live. You will be fine with Tox honestly, but yes Tox is the worst deity for an enchanter to follow since Tox has no allies in evil gods and is generally loathed by good deities. But I was gravely wrong on the impact of religion. Please excuse my ignorant assertions.

[formallydickman]

If you use an illusion, you are calculated as if you were that race. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here is an example of a faction table:
http://i56.tinypic.com/255q25d.jpg
If you were a High Elf, and you cast Illusion: Gnome, you would use the Gnome portion of the table, instead of High Elf. That's really all there is to it. The total impact of faction is composite of the base, your class, your race, your deity, faction modifiers (alliance spells), and your individual faction level (the tally of all +/- hits you've received).

This seemed relevant enough to post.

Original post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31904&highlight=kerr

[Vermicelli]

As a creature of the Underfoot, I follow Brell Serilis. The only faction hiccup I have run into is the evil outpost in the Overthere and the Craknek Warriors in Oggok. Even changing into an evil illusion and using the Alliance faction line, I have not been welcome among those people. After running the Stein of Moggok quest a dozen times, the Crakneks are starting to warm up to me. I am however allowed into the Firiona Vie outpost when under Iksar illusion, which is neat. Feels good to be good =)

[Lexical]

This seemed relevant enough to post.

Original post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=31904&highlight=kerr

Does the table you linked imply that the impact of religion/class/race vary from race to race?

[Droog007]

Table confuses me - didn't follow link.

Innoruuk Troll Shaman = 0
Erollsi Wood Elf bard = -1900

??????????

I'm guessing each faction in the game (e.g. Craknek Warriors) has a table like this - this would be an example of an evilish one?

[Sundawg]

Yes

[Splorf22]

I'm with Catherin. You'll get 200 cha with simple planar gear and self buffs anyway and after that don't worry about it. That being said, I'd rather have charisma over int which just gives more mana and aside from some special cases is not that useful.