far right jews, a force for peace

[Tradesonred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZLNO9W4OEE&feature=player_embedded#!

I especially like that heil hitler salute at 2:39, appropriate

[Daldolma]

This is me manufacturing outrage for 50 dead civilians in Palestine while ~20,000+ civilians (including over 300 Palestinians) have died in Syria in the past 18 months.

Totally not anti-Semitic brehs.

[Tradesonred]

lawl@antisemitism

Id have to hate all jews

I just hate religious crackpots, and those fascist fucks included

[Tradesonred]

anti-semitic lol

Holy fuck did u see that white cop beat up that defenseless black dude?

WHAT ARE U, SOME KIND OF ANTI-AMERICAN?

[Tradesonred]

should have posted it in rants and flames, ill give u that

[Lazortag]

This is me manufacturing outrage for 50 dead civilians in Palestine while ~20,000+ civilians (including over 300 Palestinians) have died in Syria in the past 18 months.

Totally not anti-Semitic brehs.

It probably incurs more outrage when Israel does it because Israel is a democracy, and so they should be better than that. Do you think people would act equally surprised if, say, the Canadian government killed thousands of civilians than if some authoritarian regime did it? I'm not saying it's right or that the deaths in Gaza are more tragic, but there's something more to the double standard than just anti-semitism.

[Daldolma]

Hating religious crackpots is cool. Particularly violent ones.

Just interesting that you would choose to point the finger at Jewish violent, religious crackpots when there are so many other violent, religious crackpots doing so much worse in the world -- including about 100 miles away from the Jewish violent, religious crackpots in question. I related your reference to the current disproportionate coverage of Gaza.

[Peatree]

need to stop giving these disgusting people $3 billion in U.S. tax dollars

^^^^^^^^
AGREE!

When are we ever going to learn that we cannot be nor should we be the police force of the world? Our help is rarely asked for and even if it is, it is even less appreciated.

Could someone please explain why we don't just worry about what's going on in our own country for the next 100 years and let the rest of the world figure it out on their own?

[Tradesonred]

Hating religious crackpots is cool. Particularly violent ones.

Just interesting that you would choose to point the finger at Jewish violent, religious crackpots when there are so many other violent, religious crackpots doing so much worse in the world -- including about 100 miles away from the Jewish violent, religious crackpots in question. I related your reference to the current disproportionate coverage of Gaza.

Because its a current event?

And why would you get your panties in a bunch over this if you werent in some way at a discomfort that some people are pointing this out?

We can talk about saudi arabia all day if you want

[Tradesonred]

One of my favorite authors is Noam Chomsky, get my news from Amy Goodman, I love Joey Ramone, want me to go on and on like this to show you how much of an anti-semite i am lol

[Daldolma]

Because its a current event?

And why would you get your panties in a bunch over this if you werent in some way at a discomfort that some people are pointing this out?

We can talk about saudi arabia all day if you want

I wear thongs, they don't bunch.

You're welcome to point it out as much as you want. And like I said, if your point is merely that violently religious people are a problem, we don't disagree on anything. I was just remarking upon the disproportionate outrage devoted to Israel-Palestine.

[Tradesonred]

Also as others pointed out, Assad is doing his crimes mostly without our support

[Peatree]

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1238512957_girl-balloon-deepthroat.gif

These are deep thoughts...

[Daldolma]

As an American taxpayer, I'm not footing the bill for Bashar Assad's military. I'm footing the bill (unwillingly) for Israel's military, which makes me individually (as well as Americans collectively) complicit in said repression. The American taxpayer can therefore legitimately restrict his (or her) criticism to the slaughtering they unwillingly pay for.

That's fair, but foreign aid is largely misrepresented. It's about buying influence as much as supporting regimes.

Aside from Israel, do you know who makes up the rest of our top 5 for foreign aid?

Egypt - $1.5 billion
Iraq - $1.6 billion
Pakistan - $2.1 billion
Afghanistan - $2.3 billion

Hardly friends. Pakistan was harboring Osama. And yet the checks roll in, because at the end of the day, we need a bargaining chip in that country and $2 billion buys us a bargaining chip.

Israeli support is a different breed, because it's popularly supported, but at the end of the day, that aid allows us to stay their hand when it comes to Iran and make strong suggestions -- if not directives -- when it comes to Palestine, Lebanon, and Syria. For a paltry $3 billion a year, the investment makes sense.

[Peatree]

Aside from Israel, do you know who makes up the rest of our top 5 for foreign aid?

Egypt - $1.5 billion
Iraq - $1.6 billion
Pakistan - $2.1 billion
Afghanistan - $2.3 billion



http://media.tecca.com/2012/08/29/the-dude-nope.gif

[Daldolma]

Kind of crazy, isn't it?

But that's why you can't really think about it as "support". We're not giving Pakistan $2.1 billion because we appreciate them harboring al Qaeda. We're not giving Egypt $1.5 billion because we're huge fans of the Muslim Brotherhood.

It's all strategic. In theory, it's way, way, way cheaper to spend $10 billion a year on all of these countries combined and keep them from blowing each other up than it would be to actually have to enter (another) land war to protect our oil interests.

[Swish]

You look at a map of the countries surrounding Iran now, and look at all the installed democracies and shit that's gone on in the last few years.

If you were Iran, you'd want nuclear weapons. All this shit in Israel/Gaza is just a continuation of it all. Iran is being surrounded, Obama needs a legacy... the shit is going to hit the fan.

And for all the Palestinian sympathizers out there (seems to be plenty in the UK even if the BBC is backing Israel in its coverage), they're no better than the Jews.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e49_1353437540

[Lazortag]

...

And for all the Palestinian sympathizers out there (seems to be plenty in the UK even if the BBC is backing Israel in its coverage), they're no better than the Jews.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e49_1353437540

I doubt anyone here is going to defend Hamas. It makes little sense to deflect criticism of Israel at Hamas by saying "look, they're just as bad!!". Hamas and the Israeli government can both be bad at the same time. Israel receives more criticism probably because (a) there are sane people who actually defend Israel, so their culpability is a debateable issue, (b) they're expected to adhere to norms that other democracies generally adhere to, ie not deliberately targeting civilians, using chemical weapons, and that kind of stuff, and (c) as was already mentioned, they receive a lot of military aid from the US. This isn't to say that Hamas shouldn't be criticized. Also, I think you can call yourself a "Palestinian sympathizer" and still be very critical of Hamas.

[Heebee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZLNO9W4OEE&feature=player_embedded#!

Fake subtitles. Nice try though!

[Daldolma]

I doubt anyone here is going to defend Hamas. It makes little sense to deflect criticism of Israel at Hamas by saying "look, they're just as bad!!". Hamas and the Israeli government can both be bad at the same time. Israel receives more criticism probably because (a) there are sane people who actually defend Israel, so their culpability is a debateable issue, (b) they're expected to adhere to norms that other democracies generally adhere to, ie not deliberately targeting civilians, using chemical weapons, and that kind of stuff, and (c) as was already mentioned, they receive a lot of military aid from the US. This isn't to say that Hamas shouldn't be criticized. Also, I think you can call yourself a "Palestinian sympathizer" and still be very critical of Hamas.

You're being reasonable. But you're getting caught up in a false equivalence. Yes, Israel has committed war crimes and human rights violations. Yes, the Israeli government is, at times, excessively brutal. Yes, given their level of technology and progress they should be better than some of the things they've done.

But there is no parallel between Israel and Hamas. Hamas literally dragged a dead body from the back of a motorcycle today as bystanders cheered because they think he collaborated with Israel. They killed 6 alleged collaborators today. No trial, nothing. And obviously, they shoot rockets into Israel with absolutely no intent to target military personnel. They aim to inflict as much civilian damage as possible -- they're just not very good at it.

Israel, on the other hand, has dropped over 1300 missiles into Gaza, one of the most densely populated places in the world, and killed under 100 civilians. They have placed phone calls, dropped leaflets, dropped warning shots, and reserved many attacks for nightfall in order to minimize civilian casualties. You can absolutely blame Israel for perpetuating hostilities, you can absolutely blame them for prior violations, but in the current escalation, Israel is making, if nothing more, a very reasonable effort to spare civilian life.

Israel clearly has better technology and it's obviously not a level playing field in that regard, but Hamas is targeting Israeli civilians intentionally and recklessly. Israel is making efforts to preserve civilian life, even if their response is disproportionate (arguable). And the rhetoric from both sides supports this. Taken at their words, Hamas admits to targeting "every Israeli". Israel, though perhaps less than entirely sincere, has repeatedly expressed a desire to avoid civilian casualties. You can't evaluate these entities in a vacuum. Reasonably speaking, Israel cannot win with Hamas. They can absorb rocket attacks or they can respond and face condemnation for unintentional civilian casualties. There's no in-between.

Anyway, Israel's government has major flaws, and it's impossible not to sympathize with Palestinian civilians, but Hamas is far more radical and far more violent than Israel's government. Hamas is not a viable solution to anything. Then again, the unfortunate truth is that there may not be a viable solution to this conflict.

[Daldolma]

Fake subtitles. Nice try though!

Lol. Don't speak Hebrew -- is it even close, or just outright anti-Israel propaganda?

[Lazortag]

You're being reasonable. But you're getting caught up in a false equivalence. Yes, Israel has committed war crimes and human rights violations. Yes, the Israeli government is, at times, excessively brutal. Yes, given their level of technology and progress they should be better than some of the things they've done.

But there is no parallel between Israel and Hamas. Hamas literally dragged a dead body from the back of a motorcycle today as bystanders cheered because they think he collaborated with Israel. They killed 6 alleged collaborators today. No trial, nothing. And obviously, they shoot rockets into Israel with absolutely no intent to target military personnel. They aim to inflict as much civilian damage as possible -- they're just not very good at it.

Israel, on the other hand, has dropped over 1300 missiles into Gaza, one of the most densely populated places in the world, and killed under 100 civilians. They have placed phone calls, dropped leaflets, dropped warning shots, and reserved many attacks for nightfall in order to minimize civilian casualties. You can absolutely blame Israel for perpetuating hostilities, you can absolutely blame them for prior violations, but in the current escalation, Israel is making, if nothing more, a very reasonable effort to spare civilian life.

Israel clearly has better technology and it's obviously not a level playing field in that regard, but Hamas is targeting Israeli civilians intentionally and recklessly. Israel is making efforts to preserve civilian life, even if their response is disproportionate (arguable). And the rhetoric from both sides supports this. Taken at their words, Hamas admits to targeting "every Israeli". Israel, though perhaps less than entirely sincere, has repeatedly expressed a desire to avoid civilian casualties. You can't evaluate these entities in a vacuum. Reasonably speaking, Israel cannot win with Hamas. They can absorb rocket attacks or they can respond and face condemnation for unintentional civilian casualties. There's no in-between.

Anyway, Israel's government has major flaws, and it's impossible not to sympathize with Palestinian civilians, but Hamas is far more radical and far more violent than Israel's government. Hamas is not a viable solution to anything. Then again, the unfortunate truth is that there may not be a viable solution to this conflict.

Sure, a lot of this is true. It was actually another poster who implied that the Israeli government and Hamas were "equally" bad, I was just saying they can both be in the wrong, and Hamas' crimes don't shield Israel from criticism (something you seem to agree with). Sorry if that was unclear.

[Daldolma]

A cursory Google search will show it is in fact real.

This video was from an Israeli pro-war demonstration that was reported on in the Israeli media. The man giving a speech in this video is Michael Ben Ari, an Israeli Knesset (parliament) member. Look up who he is and what his National Union party is all about and nothing said in this video will surprise you. The subtitles are competely accurate.

Israeli MK incites violence against leftists, Palestinians (http://972mag.com/israeli-mk-incites-violence-against-leftists-and-palestinians/60250/)

Ah I know the name, didn't know him by face. Yeah, he's a fanatic and pretty much the diametric opposite of a force for peace.