melee hate per swing

[Splorf22]

I did some aggro tests after reading Treats' and Zeelot's posts on
aggro because I felt swing hate was too low on this server (seems I
was wrong as per usual). Snoogan (60 pal) facepulled a mob, stunned
it, and then I (60 war) beat on it from behind until it turned to face
me. Each test records the number of hits and misses as well as the
'theoretical' hate, i.e. (weapon damage + damage bonus) * # of swings.

#1: sarnak knight. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH Lamentation: 11 hits, 8 misses = 19 swings, 380 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 12 hits, 4 misses = 16 swings, 128 hate
Total: 508 hate

#2: sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH Lamentation: 16 hits, 4 misses = 20 swings, 400 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 13 hits, 1 miss = 14 swings, 112 hate
Total: 512 hate

#3. sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 force (stun+90)
MH Lamentation: 19 hits, 6 misses = 25 swings, 500 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 12 hits, 2 misses = 14 swings, 112 hate
total: 612 hate

#4. sabretooth tigress. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun (force?)
MH Lamentation: 23 hits, 6 misses: 29 swings, 580 hate
OH Fist: 5 hits, 4 misses, 9 swings, 18 hate
Total: 600 hate

#5. wurm. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH: Staff of Battle: 6 hits, 9 misses, 15 swings: 720 hate

#6. bottomless feaster. Snoogan: facepull + 1 stun
MH: Staff of Battle: 13 hits, 3 misses, 16 swings: 768 hate
(last swing was a double)

#7. mature wurm. Snoogan: facepull + 3 stuns
MH Lamentation: 43 hits, 15 misses, 58 swings: 1160 hate
OH Ebonwood Cudgel: 32 hits, 12 misses, 44 swings: 352 hate
Total: 1512 hate

So if we assume that 1 stun is worth 500 hate, everything makes sense
. . . as long as you are using a 1H weapon. Based on this 2H is
massively inferior by about a factor of 1.5 or so.

Anyway this is precisely the opposite of what Zeelot's thread claims:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39361&highlight=hate+generation

For example, the Elder Wolf Jawbone (11/29 1H 13 bonus = 26) needed 30
swings (780 theoretical hate) while the Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36
39 bonus = 48) needed 12 swings (576 theoretical hate). Treats
estimated that 1H should be 0.725*TH and 2H should be 1.125*TH based
on this thread.

From this test it looks like the opposite is true. So what I'm
wondering is: is this intended or a typo?

[Splorf22]

Bumping this for Kanras hopefully.

[Treats]

Two hand will be inferior here because of the damage bonus.

Damage bonus for 2h in that other thread is almost twice the amount it is currently on P1999.

[Splorf22]

The point here is that all weapons do (damage+db)*1H/2H mult per swing. In Zeelot's thread 2H gets a ~1.1x bonus and 1H gets a ~.7x penalty. Here it's reversed based on the current damage bonus of 17 for 2H. I'm not claiming for sure that 1H should be getting a hate penalty and 2H a bonus - that might have been changed at some point - but I really see no reason for 2H to be getting a penalty.

[Treats]

In Zeelot's thread the two handers are using different damage bonuses.

The numbers will not match up to here because of this.

Zeelot's thread:

Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 39 dmg bonus)
Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 49 dmg bonus)
Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 42 bonus)

Project1999 (This is your penalty):

Fine Steel Great Staff (9/36 19 dmg bonus)
Sullied Two-Handed Sword (9/48 23 dmg bonus)
Enchanted Tier'Dal Staff (15/42 20 bonus)

[Splorf22]

Yes, Treats, I understand your point. Here is my point:


Finding a formula from this I determined there the aggro formula is Dmg+Dmg Bonus*Mod, this mod is somewhere between 1.22 and 1.29, more weapons need tested in order to narrow this formula down further.

Right now I believe the formula for this is similar to the 2h one with the only difference being the modifier (dmg+dmg bonus*mod), however the mod for 1h is currently a much larger range with it varying from 0.35 to 0.65.

edit: I calculated the Staff of Battle as 31 damage + 17 DB = 48 hate/swing in my post. You can see that even with the P1999 DB the results are still nuts. In fact you can see 25 swings with the lamentation ~= 15 swings with the Staff of Battle, so adjusting for time 25*1.9 = 47.5 seconds (well ignoring DA/TA) and 15*3.1 = 46.5 seconds, so the hate from a single Lamentation is roughly equal to the Staff of Battle.

edit2: I'd like to add that I'm not at all sure that 2H bonus multiplier should be active in Kunark. I saw some post on Alla that I can't find now about some very high ratio 2H (I think from NToV) that ended up being good aggro, and it sounded like it was a relatively recent change. So I suspect the most classic thing is simply 1.0 for both.

I will bet you 5k that Kanras implemented this and that he got it backwards, and that no one noticed because warriors all use 1H anyway and Paladins/SKs have their spells for aggro.