You will not evade me, $name

[nilbog]

Is there a general level at which an npc should summon?

Are there special circumstances involving it?

Discuss.

[Desert]

it depends on the mob iirc. some did, some didn't.

[mitic]

lvl51+ except some yardtrashexp mobs afaik

starting at 54-55 almost every mob summoned (?)...memory is blurred

[nilbog]

For some reason I remember it being 49. I figure there are a lot more druids or necros that would know good details.

I have only found one reference to support this

[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:44:38 2000] a revultant rat says 'You will not evade me Aledar' revultant rats were always lvl 49, afaik.

[Ethanblack]

Hmm, summoning always was interesting, but I always felt that it was something that should be reserved for named mobs, or at least 'special' types, like a 'shaman' amongst warrior mobs.

[mitic]

for example, geonids (lvl 44-48) in western wastes & raptors (lvl41-44) in timorous deep can bring you up to lvl 60 solo. both mobs dont summon and have been always camped by soloing players.

so it looks like you are right nilbog

ps: (and this backs up my theory that clr+mages are the best combo 50+ :p )

[nilbog]

Another question... what all can you be summoned for doing?

Example: I partnered my magician with a druid in Western Wastes. He would cast snare on an Ice Burrower... and recast it over and over again, building up hate but never being summoned.

This leads me to believe that at least 1 point of damage/healing is required?

[Jeebus]

iirc nilbog, you had to do DAMAGE to be summoned.

EDIT: but like you said. snare no damage spells would not cause summons.

[spoolie]

ya i remember it was like 2% of the mobs health before it would start summoning

[nilbog]

ya i remember it was like 2% of the mobs health before it would start summoning No.. if you go up to Lord Nagafen, nuke successfully and run away, you're guaranteed to be summoned as soon as you're out of his melee range.

[nilbog]

iirc nilbog, you had to do DAMAGE to be summoned.

You sure? This wouldn't make sense on dragon raids, when the tank and dps dies and the clerics start getting summoned. The clerics wouldn't have done damage surely :)

the clerics go down after being summoned for healinghttp://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=997&post=1&replyto=9789217197875&page=2To the cleric who wondered why she got summoned for healing. Just a scenario here: You're fighting in Lower Guk and you almost have a mob dead. All the sudden, another mob goes and heals him. All the casters/tanks (If they know what they're doing) would smack him up so that doesnt happen again. Same thing with mobs. http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5491;page=3till the clerics get summoned for healinghttp://eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?p=166713

[spoolie]

heal=damage if you heal a tank you theoretically just damaged the mob as you got on the hate list of said mob for healing the tank that did said damage. so in turn you did that damage to the mob as healing damage.

[Zanti]

98-97% = summons on live iirc. Highest on agro list get the summon, if he dies then the next highest gets summoned.

[nilbog]

98-97% = summons on live iirc. Highest on agro list get the summon, if he dies then the next highest gets summoned.

Ohhh well that puts what spoolie said in better perspective. I read that as it didn't summon until it was at 2%.

Now that does ring a bell. 97% does.

[Fargus]

i think you had to be at the top of the hate list to be summoned. i remember, as a support dps war, if i stole agro from the main tank (oops, didn't happen often), i'd stop attacking and back off. i'd get summoned if the mt didnt get agro back right away

[Cheech]

Yes 97% sounds right nilbog. I just member on raids you could kite stuff around with say like a sk darkness snare and couldnt damage it past that mark or it would summon. I also member wiping on ToV dragons. They had a slow regen rate so soon as someone reagroed. It would summon instantly.

i think you had to be at the top of the hate list to be summoned. i remember, as a support dps war, if i stole agro from the main tank (oops, didn't happen often), i'd stop attacking and back off. i'd get summoned if the mt didnt get agro back right away

Ya and if the MT died and and you were on the top of the list you were summoned for sure.

[Phallax]

The summon rules is 97% or 100hp, which ever comes first.
As for lvl I think everything 55+ summoned. Not 100% on this thought.

[Uaellaen]

Mobs started to summon as soon as they lost 1 HP afaik... They always summoned the first person on the hate list ... afaik 90% of the mobs lvl 51+ summoned, and i THINK mobs in planes all summoned regardless of level ...

[savarin]

Another question... what all can you be summoned for doing?

Example: I partnered my magician with a druid in Western Wastes. He would cast snare on an Ice Burrower... and recast it over and over again, building up hate but never being summoned.

This leads me to believe that at least 1 point of damage/healing is required?

Ice burrowers never summoned, no matter what you did. My friend used to kite them on his druid alt who couldn't possibly live through ice burrower melee. I seem to remember certain animal npcs just didn't summon. I don't want to say this was the basis, but it'd be kind of strange for an animal to say "You will not evade me, Soandso."

[Cogwell]

Before now, I would have said with certainty only 51+ mobs summoned (essentially the two dragons in classic) and that was the case until PoP, when higher level group mobs didnt summon - apparently there were exceptions even before that though.

Edit - typo

[Tallenn]

Here's the way I remember it. In Kunark, it was mobs over level 50 that could summon. That changed over the years, but right at first, that was the toggle: 50 and below: no summon, 51+: summon. Nowadays, level doesn't really have much to do with whether or not a mob summons- LOTS of mobs over 50 from POP on that didn't summon (had to- as players kept getting higher levels). I think that after a certain point, the devs just started deciding on summon or no based on how they felt was best for game balance on a case by case basis. That may have even started in Velious, but I can't say for sure. For Kunark though, it was completely level based between 50 and 51.

As to how it works, from what I remember, it was a special ability, just like lots of other special abilities. In other words, it has a recast timer. Once used, it can't be used again until the recast timer is up. It seemed to be like 4 or 5 combat rounds for most mobs, but it could vary from mob to mob.

Who the mob chooses to summon I always thought was simple. If the person on the top of the hate list wasn't in combat range, it would summon them. So, it wouldn't necessarily summon right away once the recast timer was up- not until someone not already in melee range managed to get it's attention. You only have to be on top of the hate list for an instant too, because I remember being summoned many times, and not even getting attacked. In other words, the mob had already switched to someone else from the time it summoned me to the time it's next swing came up.

[Nizzarr]

I'm pretty sure all 51+ mobs in the planes summoned. Damages had to be done for it to occur. I believe the mob had to lose 1% of its hp for it to start summoning. I do not recall getting summoned on throwing daggers/bow shots. I remember soloing lvl 48-49 mobs in PoF on my druid and never getting summoned.

As far as rats goes, they should be between lvl 48-52, like most plane mobs

Not all 50+ mobs summoned. I'm sure some research will provide you with more information :)

[Akame]

Summoning started when a mob hit 97% health.

[Tallenn]

Oh, and on the damage thing:

The mob had to receive damage in order to begin to summon. I.e., its summon skill wasn't active until it had taken a small amount of damage (not much, either. Like others have mentioned, maybe 2-3% of its hitpoints). However, once the ability to summon is there, it can summon ANYONE that makes it to the top of the hate list, even if for just an instant, whether they themselves have done any damage or not (though those that do the most damage are often the ones at or near the top of the hate list, anyway).

[Nizzarr]

Basically, if you were in melee range and the mob would turn to you and hit you, you'd get summoned if you were farther than his melee range.

Like if I cast an ice comet from afar, and tank has just enough aggro that the mob wont run to me but that if I were in melee range it would hit me. It would summon me(wizard).

Hope that makes sense.

[Loke]

Mobs started to summon as soon as they lost 1 HP afaik... They always summoned the first person on the hate list ... afaik 90% of the mobs lvl 51+ summoned, and i THINK mobs in planes all summoned regardless of level ...

This is incorrect. I used to use the 250 range Javelins to pull ToV and would not get summoned even though those Javelins were able to do 20+ damage. It was more than 1hp that had to be done. I do remember the limit being 51+ though for some reason, although it would appear that Nilbog already disproved that memory with the rats. I'm 100% on the damage thing being more than 1hp though.

[Savok]

Correct - as of Kunark any mob 51+ when spawned would summon from 97% of health onwards. Gullaback in Burning Woods is a great example of this as he can spawn as a level 49 - 51 mob. Only the level 51 version would summon you. Now there were exceptions to this but the above rule pretty much stood as a base marker.

[Dawgrin]

I remember that there being 3 levels of summoning...

#1 - Summon after some damage is done. This is the most common variety as I remember it. This was a % of the mobs total HP (2-3%), I know this for sure because I would sometimes go and try killing raid mobs and if I felt like I was not going to win the fight I could somtimes stop attacking long enough for them to regen back up to 97% and then I could escape because they would stop summoning. Granted this was with Luclin raid mobs (Ssra mobs primarily), but I think it is the general rule.

#2 - Summon on aggro. This was a special case..some mobs would summon with no damage done. As soon as they had aggro they would start summoning. I know I remember this being in, I just cannot recall any mobs off the top of my head that did it.

#3 - Summon with Spells. Specifically Call of the Zero, but I think all of these were Velious Raid mobs

[Skope]

I remember that in seb only certain mobs would summon, regardless of level. The same was true for CoM if i recall correctly.

I remember being able to slow and snare a guardian wurm without them summoning, but as soon as they were damaged they would start to summon those according to who's on top of the hate-list (usually my shammy-slow would do it). But there was also quite a few mobs in that zone that didn't summon and were over level 51, some over 55. Think it was really dependant on the mob

[Yoite]

was def not just 1 point of dmg, would start summoning when they changed from 98 to 97%.

As i read through these i didnt see anyone bring up the rate at which they summoned. I dont know for sure how often it was but i *think* it was around 10seconds? I do remember i could still solo summoning mobs on my druid but rooting them and getting 1 nuke or 1 heal off in between summons.

Nilbog does this (the time between summons) have to be defined or is this already in place in the client?

[Zordana]

Mobs started to summon as soon as they lost 1 HP afaik... They always summoned the first person on the hate list ... afaik 90% of the mobs lvl 51+ summoned, and i THINK mobs in planes all summoned regardless of level ...

thats what i was going to say aswell tbh...
tho my memory about this is veeeery blurry so better not believe whati say :D

[Akame]

thats what i was going to say aswell tbh...
tho my memory about this is veeeery blurry so better not believe whati say :D

I promise you it was 97% it was part of the FaQ's in our raid compendium.

Edit: Now mind you I am talking about the default summon ability. Raid content where creatures summon ability was part of the fight script acted independently.

[setver]

MOST, not all, mobs 51-52+ summoned. They definitely didn't want all mobs to summon, so there were special cases in almost every zone.

I can't recall any mobs summoning after 1HP, but I can't be 100% sure it didn't happen. The rest definitely started to summon at around 98-98.5% I'd say. It was probably 98.5 and someone would hit it hard and make it drop to somewhere in the 97% area. Some mobs of the same name also did not always summon. I recall this from GoD directly, not sure if it applies to earlier mobs. Those mobs were clearly above 60, so they might have raised the summoning threshold on each expansion.

I didn't ever time it, but it seems the refresh on the summon was 8-10 seconds.

This is from my experiences raiding and soloing as a druid starting late velious up through GoD. It could have been changed from 1999.

[Adramelk]

To the best of my memory: in Kunark and Velious, ALL mobs 51+ summon as soon as they reach 97%. They will only summon if their highest-hate target is not in melee range, and they will only summon their highest-hate target.

The time in between summons is ~6 seconds (ballpark).

[Yoite]

im pretty sure the time between summons was longer than 1 tick (6 seconds). I could get summoned. back up a bit, and nuke or heal before being summoned again. I would think its more like 2 ticks which would be 12 seconds.

it's not ALL mobs either. most animals didnt summon, like wolves and such in WW. Dont think those giant worms did either. or Tantor. could be wrong on big worms but i know Tantor didnt summon and hes 60+

[Skope]

To the best of my memory: in Kunark and Velious, ALL mobs 51+ summon as soon as they reach 97%. They will only summon if their highest-hate target is not in melee range, and they will only summon their highest-hate target.

The time in between summons is ~6 seconds (ballpark).

Don't think that's the case. No way that all +51 mobs summoned, but it was rather based on the specific mob itself. The time between summons was spaced around 10+ seconds or so, so probably 2 ticks i'd guess.

[Bumamgar]

Checking my log archive and here's what I've got regarding summoning:

- Summoning never occurred more frequently than once every 10 seconds.
- Several named classic mobs summoned (however, these logs are from the Combine, so maybe they didn't summon in 1999). Specifically, named fire giants in SolB (Magus Rokyl, King Trannix) as well as quite a few trash mobs in PoHate and PoFear (xxx of Innoruuk, thought destroyer, etc). Both Naggy and Vox summoned.
- Many named epic mobs summoned (Cazel, Wrath of the Shissar, etc).

As others have posted, summoning worked based on the hatelist, melee range and percentage of health of the mob. Summoning would start once the mob reached 97% health or lower, and the mob would summon the person at the top of it's hatelist if that person wasn't within melee range, no more frequently than once every 10 seconds.

Summoning always placed the summoned character at the same X/Y location as the mob. As a warrior, whenever I was summoned I would always have to take a step or two back to be able to 'see my target' for melee.

[Adramelk]

10 seconds sounds right to me, too (6 does sound fast, thinking about it some more).

Still pretty sure that at least in Classic, Kunark, and Velious at least, pretty much every mob over level 50 does summon (and that therefore it is level-based and not mob-based).

[Akame]

10 seconds sounds right to me, too (6 does sound fast, thinking about it some more).

Still pretty sure that at least in Classic, Kunark, and Velious at least, pretty much every mob over level 50 does summon (and that therefore it is level-based and not mob-based).

Not every mob, I certainly remember bards out kiting wvyerns, and I root rotted my fair share of wryms outside of the coldain zone. It definitely was not every mob in kunark and velious over 50, the soloists would have had a conniption fit.

[nilbog]

Not every mob, I certainly remember bards out kiting wvyerns, and I root rotted my fair share of wryms outside of the coldain zone. It definitely was not every mob in kunark and velious over 50, the soloists would have had a conniption fit.

These mobs are not over level 50.

[nilbog]

- Summoning never occurred more frequently than once every 10 seconds.


This log seems to verify the 10-11 second summon.

[Fri Nov 10 02:35:28 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:39 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'
[Fri Nov 10 02:35:50 2000] a forsaken revenant says 'You will not evade me Aledar'

Nilbog does this (the time between summons) have to be defined or is this already in place in the client?

Probably needs to be defined.

[Branaddar]

The mechanics as far as I remember:

- Around 98-97% health the mob's summoning ability was enabled. This prevented pullers with throwies from getting summoned if their throwy landed.
- The summon has a refresh time of about 10-15 seconds (memory's hazy on that.)
- He will always summon the player on top of his hate list as soon as they are out of THE MOB'S melee range. I emphasize this because some mobs had huge hitboxes where they can still hit you but you are "too far away" to melee them.
- Raid bosses almost always had this.
- As has been said, it's kind of hit-and-miss on what raid trash or xp mobs will summon. Almost all mobs in raid zones (Kael, ToV, etc) summon.
- If a warrior is happily tanking and a wizard overnukes to gain top hate spot, or the tank dies, the mob will summon the wizard immediately if it hasn't been used in the past 10-15 seconds.
- It does not matter who does the damage or how. They just need to be on the mob's hate list for any reason. Healing, debuffs or being a ranger.

I'm sure that doesn't help a lot in discerning which mobs summon, but at least should explain HOW they do so.

Edit: Reading over the posts regarding the level of mobs that summon has me pondering a bit. I'm pretty sure when I was playing a wizard I was kiting mobs that were 51+ in pre-Luclin zones that didn't summon. I'm just drawing a blank between kiting raptors in TD and kiting in PoN. I didn't solo so much during that span of playtime, as Seb AE was hot shit at the time. I'm pretty sure there was SOMETHING I was kiting at level 60 that was still dark blue before PoP, though.

[Tallenn]

At 60 some mobs under 51 are still dark blue (in classic, that is- in live dark blue is now defined as 1-5 levels below you). I'm not sure exactly how far down it went, but it was definitely below 50. I want to say 47, but not completely sure.

The raptors in TD are below 45, except for the Vicious Raptors, which are up to 45.

[Yoite]

fetid skunks in PoM didnt summon. The bees didnt either, although the named did. those were 50+ mobs. i'll think of some more as the work day goes on =)

[Akame]

These mobs are not over level 50.

Hmm, I will see if I can find some information somewhere about trash mobs in velious or kunark over 51 that do not summon then. I personally thought summoning was mostly caster, named and maybe humanoid, I just don't recall any things that can't talk (animals mostly) saying "You will not evade me!" at any point. I'm sure it would be something that stuck out in memory. Kind of like snakes that kick.

Will see what I can find!

[Excision Rottun]

51+ animals not summoning sounds correct to me.

Here is an example of a Velious animal mob who is always lvl 52.

According to numerous posts in this thread, DOES NOT summon.

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=6145


An example of some mobs 51+ summoning and some not are the neriads in Siren's Grotto

All of them are above level 51.

Of the non-named, only the "a neriad weaver" will summon.

Interestingly the "a neriad weaver" spawns as lvl 60-61 all others are mid 50s

I spent countless hours in SG farming the drum and shawl.


Shimmering Sea Spirit (http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=7728)

Here is an example of a 51+ "named" animal mob who DOES NOT SUMMON

He is a rare spawn from the other water elementals in zone, has 2 peices of loot so I would consider him a "named"


Fellspine (http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=4317)

Here is an example of a 51+ "named" animal mob who DOES SUMMON

[Akame]

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=5420

Level 61 "an ice burrower"
* HP Estimate: 38,000
* Summons: No
* Single-Target Rampages: Yes
* Enrages: Yes

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=6322

Level 53 "a velium hound"

Commentary in the notes implies root rotting by druids for coldain shawl quest component farming.

Couldn't find any info confirming the same thing on 51+ animals in kunark, nor information denying it really. Mayble simply if it can't say "You will not evade me!" you probably can evade it? ;p

Sorry for the generalization, I'll try and look for better facts when I have more time.

[Haish]

I know 100% these guys, lvl 50 in GD, did not summon.

id=6123http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=6123

Decent quadding =)

An i remember solo kiting the ice burrowers in WW, they never summoned.

[nilbog]

As far as rooting, I read a few places that a rooted npc will not summon.

Opinions on this, soloers?

http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/showthread.php?t=1198

[Tallenn]

They are talking about the AA ability, viscid roots. There was a rumor that it would stop summoning- untrue, afiak. Normal roots have no effect on whether a mob will summon or not.

Edit: on further examination, it looks like there is a theory that root works similarly to mobs that don't summon- i.e. keep the mob focused on the closest player, thus bypassing the hate list altogether. Mob ignores hate list = mob will not summon, or will only summon the person that is closest to them. Not sure about that, to be honest. It wouldn't have any effect on soloing though, since if you are soloing, you are still the char closest to the mob, and thus,you will get summoned.

[Akame]

As far as rooting, I read a few places that a rooted npc will not summon.

Opinions on this, soloers?

http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/showthread.php?t=1198

Hehe definitely not true, and sometimes counter productive when you're trying to get to the zoneline and have rooted your summoner to put you back in the same spot every 10 seconds.

[Adramelk]

Rooted mobs definitely still summoned.

[nilbog]

They are talking about the AA ability, viscid roots. There was a rumor that it would stop summoning- untrue, afiak. Normal roots have no effect on whether a mob will summon or not.

I think they are indicating that it changes the summon mechanics

Summons:
If you aggro a summoning mob by running past it or casting a no damage spell (Cancel Magic, Snare, etc), it will chase you.
It will not summon you but it will chase you. I think no damage Savage Root could apply in this scenario but I have never tried it.

Once sufficient damage (Forgot the minimum damage) is done to the mob, then the summoning subroutine is activated. Mob searches for the player with the highest aggro, if it cannot engage that person in a fixed time because of root, snare, pathing, then it will summon that person. Remember when a mob gates to spawn point, heals and starts to summon one person at a time to their death.

If a mob is rooted and it can melee a player, it chooses a different subroutine. It won't summon the player highest on the aggro list and instead the mob will just beat on the player with the highest aggro that it can hit.

I think this subroutine was done to prevent a player from generating high aggro via Snares, Slows, etc on non-summoning Mobs and then rooting it. Then letting a low aggro melee attack the mob without the mob fighting back.

Once root is off, it reverts back to normal.


I have no idea :p We have enough players here I believe we can find the truth though.

[Yoite]

rooting will not cause a summon as long as the mob is still above the summon thresh hold, aka above 98% hp or w.e we are saying that is.

but, once its pissed off, its is gonna keep summoning you if you are not in hit range, rooted or not. only thing root did to summon mobs was allow you to back up and get a cast off between summons.

druid's eventually got a root that didnt do dmg which was cool cause you could root mobs without the fear of getting summoned by them from your root dmg

[Yoite]

Nil the above is true, rooting the mob will make it attack someone within hit range (if someone is present) rather they keep trying to summon the guy he was previously pissed off at.

similar to how root works now with agro. if a_wizard pulls agro and amazing_pally roots it as its running over to him, as long as amazing_pally is still in range it will attack him instead of the wiz. but, once root is off, if the wizard or druid or whatnot is still on top of the list, he will get summons again

[Branaddar]

God last thing we need is people casting root on mobs in groups/raids to avoid being summoned... and also avoid the tank holding hate without being up its nose... and also explain to everyone how root "aggro" works... and tell that rogue to back the fuck up... and tell the warrior to get closer...

et cetera -.-

Can we not include this particular feature? :P

[nilbog]

Root aggro should already work that way. (attack the closest pc)

Does it not?

[Yoite]

it does

Branaddar thats just EQ man, its the EQ we love =)

[Adramelk]

Yes, root proxy agro works the way Yoite is describing because it redefines what the mob wants to hit -- a rooted mob will still summon the player it wants to hit (so if no player is in melee range, that wizard will still get summoned).

Since Nil asked about soloers, I posted from my druid's perspective -- root a summoning mob and damage it alone and it will sure summon you.

[Hiragawa]

As a soloing Necro, I can say for sure that not all 51+ mobs back then summoned. I never did anything but kite back then (Although some of it was fear kiting)

97% was always my marker. When I was getting close to 97% and fighting a mob I didn't know summoned or not, I'd keep my finger on Feign. It also let me stack enough DoTs on summoning mobs I wanted to try ghetto kiting. (See Below)

10 seconds seems about right. I remember in Kunark being able to very, VERY slowly kill summoning mobs solo through the use of Splurt, Timing Feign death, and Running for 9 seconds or so to let Splurt tick before Feigning again. And if I had a SoW or what not, I could usually get far enough away to recast a DoT or a fast casting Nuke.

[Omnimorph]

Root aggro should already work that way. (attack the closest pc)

Does it not?

It does work like that, but there's currently a bug in that if a pet is closer to the rooted mob, and you're still in melee range, the mob would always hit a PC on it's aggro list before hitting a pet. Currently the npc will hit the closest aggro thing, even if it's a pet.

[Thrymm]

Another question... what all can you be summoned for doing?

Example: I partnered my magician with a druid in Western Wastes. He would cast snare on an Ice Burrower... and recast it over and over again, building up hate but never being summoned.

This leads me to believe that at least 1 point of damage/healing is required?

On my old mage in hate, I would cast a nuke and immediately sit down to be summoned.

[nilbog]

On my old mage in hate, I would cast a nuke and immediately sit down to be summoned.

I think the accepted number we're working with here is somewhere between 2-3% of total hp of the npc, and it will activate summons.

A level 50 magician in hateplane.. lets see, thats lava bolt, at 810 dmg?

forsaken revenant ~ 10120 hp

1 nuke is 8%

[Kainzo]

Mobs level 46+ summon'd a lot... Definitely close to 50. I remember going to Sebilis and getting summon'd quite a bit trying to get to zone out from the mobs near Zone in.

[logiktrip]

Summon had a threshhold, after that was crossed (be it a static number of hit points, or a percentage) the mob would begin summoning. This turned out to be roughly 97% on most npcs.

The summons were based on the hate list.

[setver]

just to confirm what others have said, summoning mobs that were rooted, would still summon the #1 on the hatelist. It just let you if you were grouped w/o a tank or soloing, to get out of melee for a few rounds. I recall doing this with a group of wizard/druids/shaman and we'd rotate our instant evac aa for emergencies. So this wasn't classic, but I don't see that being different from classic.

[Reiker]

Some high end Velious encounters (for example, Vulak Aerr) summoned via a spell and not the ability: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=2080&source=Live

Mobs with this spell could summon much more rapidly and at 100% HP. This was done to avoid pre-debuffing and aggro building before engaging a raid mob.

Edit: I also remember mobs with this spell (which I think was just all the Lords/Ladies, Aaryonar, LTK, and Dozekar) would spam it. Tanks would constantly have to reposition every 5 seconds, and you would get summoned as soon as you entered their aggro range.

As the game progressed summoning wasn't very much dependent on level. I remember some really low level (20-30?) mobs in Luclin summoning. Alternately, the level 68 mobs at the "tables" in PoFire wouldn't summon, I used to solo them all day at 65 for some phat AA exp.

[BuzWeaver]

For some reason I remember it being 49. I figure there are a lot more druids or necros that would know good details.

I have only found one reference to support this

revultant rats were always lvl 49, afaik.

The main MOBs I recall summoning back in the day were the Blue Cobalt Drakes and Yvoclarn in Cobalt Scars. As far as where I hunted with any frequency solo with my Druid. Other Summoning Mobs I just avoided all together. Quite a few MOBs in Western Waste would Summon as well. So I'm figuring MOBs in that level range would be a good reference point.

[Yinikren]

Because no one seems to have pointed this out, i would like to say that the magic number for summoning is 96% HP. 97% or above and you were safe. I remember lots of mobs; summoning trash in sol ro's tower, dragons in WW, and the Rhags in Ssra. You could do whatever you wanted to the mob, until that mob hit 96%, then you'd be summoned. Summon was on a 12 second timer for every mob that used summon as an ability (read: not a spell), I never saw nor remember hearing of any variances. It was easy to solo the permarooted Rhags in Ssra for spells and alt loot because as a necro you can dot the hell out of them, sit pretty until 96%, then alternate lifetapping and dotting by running out of melee range during the 12 seconds it took for summon to refresh.

As to the above, I don't think the drakes summoned, only Yvolcarn did (he was 51). The drakes just AE dispelled, which sucked when multiple people were quadding/killing/resting/cybering (true storey, i caught 2 people in the druid rings) there.

[Aeolwind]

@Reiker: Those mobs had Call of the Zero. That was their anti-exploit.

The 2% or 100 damage is the right answer. I remember most FG's summoning, same for the IG's after the Diplomat, This hypothesis is supported by the spawn log based on levels.


Fire Giants ranged from 47-51 in level, a 5 level spread.
Fear mobs ranged from 48-52 in level, a 5 level spread.
Hate mobs Ranged from 48-52 in level, a 5 level spread.


Now, it would be easy based on these facts to say that mobs 49+ would be your summoning threshold. This would leave some FG's to Summon, some IG's to summon and most planar mobs to summon.

This would also fit the sketchy recollection I have from Kunark of Dar's/Kor's/Jin's not using summon, but the frog after Dar's (Bok's)could, but not always. 57+ is the enrage barrier.

So, based on the above info. I have to put my support to > 48 being the summoning threshold.

[Desert]

I played a druid pretty heavily in velious.

Rooted mobs definitely do summon. Cobalt Drakes do not summon but their nukes hurt, and they have nasty PBAE's that will piss off other people in zone if you're not careful, I remember farming the shit out of them for their tradeskill drop (whatever it was escapes me now). I'm pretty sure those giant worms in WW Summoned, but the wolves and non-named dragon crap didn't.

[Teeroyoyort]

not all mobs summoned. i believe it's like a flag on a mob, rampage? no, summom? yes... lol, when 98% fell to 97% the mob would summon. Summon was on monsters 52+ that had the flag. the delay i'm iffy about originally it was longer, then nerfed to be faster much much later on oow maybe.

[mmiles8]

I seem to remember certain animal npcs just didn't summon. I don't want to say this was the basis, but it'd be kind of strange for an animal to say "You will not evade me, Soandso."

You're right on about that. As silly as that sounds, it's true. The ice burrowers didn't summon because they were animals. Animals don't summon. Very important thing to know back then.

Aside from that, it was a hard and fast rule of everything over level 50 summons (at least in the Verant days). It didn't require that you did any damage, it only required that the mob not be at 100% health, and whoever had aggro not be in melee range. Mobs that summoned, summoned every 6 seconds. I had a druid friend who kited summoning mobs on that principle.

On my wizard, I would intentionally face the opposite direction of a tank that I didn't like in revamped CT, and cast the level 34 nuke with the knockback on the mobs at every cooldown just to make him get summoned backwards and backstabbed.

[stormlord]

I don't remember anything summoning from back then.

[thxer]

51+ and 97% health. Was pretty much on ALL mobs until Luclin, they made exceptions because soloers needed to xp.

[mmiles8]

I don't remember anything summoning from back then.

Revamped CT. The mobs were 50+. This is the era of the flowing slime boots and mosquito leg earring. My wizard wasn't 34, that's the level of the nuke with the 20 yd knockback or whatever.

[Insedeel]

Back in classic at the time it was reserved for level 51+ mobs. Most animals didn't summon. I remember very very clearly from the countless hours spent in Sebilis back in those days that there was NO frogloks that would be able to summon except Krups Ilis and reets. Krup's weren't always able to summon (they could range from 49-52), and ilis/reet always summoned. There was only one ilis that did NOT summon and that was the ilis acolyte which is level 50.

Hope this helps.

[fastboy21]

lvl51+ except some yardtrashexp mobs afaik

starting at 54-55 almost every mob summoned (?)...memory is blurred

no.

It is very specific, some mobs do some don't. I assume the question is being asked because the devs need to now which mobs could and couldn't summon in kunark/velious as they work on that content, so there is no "rule"...it needs to tbd mob by mob.

[Malrubius]

Not classic I know, but there were definitely PoP mobs around level *60* that did not summon. I spent much of my high 50s and low 60s root/charm soloing in PoT and PoV. Never was summoned. Actually, not even the occasional named mobs that I solo'd summoned.

So anyway, I'm sure that this means that there were 50+ *unnamed* mobs around in classic-Velious that did not summon. Maybe some named as well. This is also my recollection. Summoning mobs were not all that common, and the ones that did were usually avoided when soloing post-50.

Unfortunately all this means that it was indeed mob-by-mob, which makes it a pain in the butt to implement :/

I will search around for some proof.

[Insedeel]

@Reiker: Those mobs had Call of the Zero. That was their anti-exploit.

The 2% or 100 damage is the right answer. I remember most FG's summoning, same for the IG's after the Diplomat, This hypothesis is supported by the spawn log based on levels.


Fire Giants ranged from 47-51 in level, a 5 level spread.
Fear mobs ranged from 48-52 in level, a 5 level spread.
Hate mobs Ranged from 48-52 in level, a 5 level spread.


Now, it would be easy based on these facts to say that mobs 49+ would be your summoning threshold. This would leave some FG's to Summon, some IG's to summon and most planar mobs to summon.

This would also fit the sketchy recollection I have from Kunark of Dar's/Kor's/Jin's not using summon, but the frog after Dar's (Bok's)could, but not always. 57+ is the enrage barrier.

So, based on the above info. I have to put my support to > 48 being the summoning threshold.

I'm very certain that it was > 50 (51+).

Also, here (http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showpost.php?p=114733&postcount=14) I know it's not dev/producer proof, but this is a post from 2004 of someone mentioning how most mobs start "summoning" starting at level 51+.

[mmiles8]

but there were definitely PoP mobs around level *60* that did not summon.
Aside from that, it was a hard and fast rule of everything over level 50 summons (at least in the Verant days).

Verant cashed in after velious. Then it wasn't a simple, hard and fast rule, and was mob by mob. Until then, you could write an equation for it. If mob > 50 AND <> Animal, Then mob = summons.

EndIf.

[Malrubius]

I think you are right regarding classic era. But the mob-by-mob rule may have started in Velious. What is below rings true (still looking for more)...

Reference: http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/showthread.php?t=8122&page=2

06-08-2004, 06:04 PM #19
zk4r
Board Newcomer


Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 9 I'd also like to see the Dev's re-evaluate NPC summoning.

All mobs which can summon, seem to do so about every 6 seconds, i.e. share the exact same timer- universally.

Back when Kunark was new, just about ANY mob over level 50 would summon like Nagafen or Lord Djarn, which players found so annoying they stuck to fighting lower level content.

Then, iirc, Velious content added NPC flags so that summoning could be turned ON or OFF at will, per mob.

One fix might be to add a timer to player summoning so that lower level NPC which are intended to be flagged as "Summoners" can do so, but not just every 6 seconds, but based upon their level.

I.E.- A level 51 NPC could use their summon ability once every minute or so (10 ticks), and scale up with level... level 54 NPC's summon every 9 ticks, level 57 NPC's summon every 8 ticks, level 60 => 7 ticks, level 63 => 6 ticks, level 66 => 5 ticks, level 69 => 4 ticks, level 72 => 3 ticks, level 75 => 2 ticks, [...]

Timers would take server resources, however, so such a scheme would still necessitate examining whether or not "vanilla" mobs should be summoning in the first place.

...

On a personal note, I can't count the number of times one of my toons died to Venrix Kylong Remains (lvl 51-52) in Karnor's Castle Basement simply because of getting summoned every 6 seconds.. LOL.

I believe my Shaman has the record of attmpting to flee to the zoneline and getting summoned back... it was around 16-17 times before Venrix actually managed to kill him.
__________________
Monty
Elven Storm Warden
Tholuxe Paells Server

[mmiles8]

Yeah this guy is hypothesizing about whether or not that's the case, probably due to the animal contingency mentioned above, it wasn't common knowledge unless you spent a lot of time kiting in the higher end zones like western wastes.