It's official, Obama is coming after your guns

[Black Jesus]

Abstract

The Obama Administration has openly announced their intent to bring back the Assault Weapons Ban[1] that was "law" for ten years, but this time Dianne Feinstein and the gun-grabbing liberals aren’t just restricting new weapons & ammo purchases, but seeking legislation to require arms be turned in and private sales be barred.[2]

Simultaneously, the Obama Administration is helping to revive the United Nations Small Arms Treaty[3], which will undermine the sovereignty of the 2nd Amendment by putting international control over the flow of weapons and civilian ownership, inevitably affecting gun rights inside the U.S. particularly in border zones.

This is not speculation, this is not hyperbole, this is not myth– but the admitted plan now underway.


Footnotes

[1] Obama Calls for Renewal of Assault Weapons Ban
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/obama-calls-for-renewal-of-assault-weapons-ban/

[2]Turn Them Over: Feinstein Moves To Ban ALL Assault Rifles, High Capacity Magazines, and Pistol Grips
http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/turn-them-over-feinstein-moves-to-ban-all-assault-rifles-high-capacity-magazines-and-pistol-grips_11072012

[3]After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107


2012: the year the truth was the easiest troll

[Black Jesus]

if we didnt need guns, we also wouldnt need locks

[Black Jesus]

http://i.imgur.com/LwTtd.jpg

[Swish]

You guys are lucky you're armed. In Britain guns are very hard to come by unless you're involved in an inner city gang, and even then they're some nasty replica conversion.

If that's 100% true, get em while you can - I would. Isn't it in the constitution that you can legally own a gun or something? Shouldn't be messing with the constitution...that wouldn't be very democratic :(

[Swish]

Here's what happens if you try to defend yourself in Britain:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29

Don't become like us...

[Reiker000]

http://i.imgur.com/LwTtd.jpg

She obviously lives in Seattle.

No laws broken.

[Fyreant]

Here's what happens if you try to defend yourself in Britain:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29

Don't become like us...Well, theft is not punishable by death. And while I can agree with a person's right to defend themselves, shooting someone to death, in the back, as they're fleeing, is not self defense. Even worse if you kill a fleeing person with an illegally owned gun.

[Swish]

Well, theft is not punishable by death. And while I can agree with a person's right to defend themselves, shooting someone to death, in the back, as they're fleeing, is not self defense. Even worse if you kill a fleeing person with an illegally owned gun.

He'd been burgled numerous times before however, whether it was the same guy or not...and the police here were (and still are) useless.

I'd have shot him in the leg and phoned the police, but no matter what I think he had a lot of support from the public here. Perhaps people don't deserve guns, and don't deserve to defend their property... perhaps Obama is right to try and disarm the US...

[Cade]

I'm sorry that this is my first post on the P1999 forums, but I have to say something here.

In regards to the first claim about an assault weapons ban:

Do we really need these? A shotgun, hunting rifle, or handgun should be more than enough for any sort of self/home defense situation. All the people I have met who own or would like to own anything larger probably shouldn't have been allowed to. Really, in what situation do you think that you will need an assault rifle or extended magazine?

As for the UN treaty:

What does this have to do with gun control within the US? All I've been able to find about it is conservatives arguing that it will interfere with the 2nd amendment, but none of them seem to be able to explain how. It applies to international trade only.

For the record I am a gun owner and oppose domestic gun control. However these claims that Obama is trying to take our guns really get under my skin. I'm not commenting on Feinstein, as she has nothing to do with Obama or this thread.

EDIT:
[it is] the exclusive right of States to regulate internal transfers of arms and national ownership, including through constitutional protections on private ownership. As I said, the UN treaty only addresses international trade. It will not interfere with regulation within the US no matter how many times it is repeated with no source of information.

Since we're talking about assault weapons in terms of an assault weapons ban, perhaps we should define 'assault weapon' by the political definition instead of arguing about which dictionary to use. In political terms, as evidenced by the 10 year Federal Assault Weapons Ban on which another assault weapons ban would be based, used very specific language and clearly defines what would be considered an assault rifle. The old ban then goes on to list all of the 19 weapons which fit the description. Most of the recent pushes for an assault weapons ban focus on renewing the very same law, and therefore only those 19 weapons would be banned. Again, I don't support such a law, I'm only pointing out that it would have very little impact on the ability to own firearms.

[Lazortag]

Who cares, the 2nd amendment is dumb anyway.

[Autotune]

I'm sorry that this is my first post on the P1999 forums, but I have to say something here.

In regards to the first claim about an assault weapons ban:

Do we really need these? A shotgun, hunting rifle, or handgun should be more than enough for any sort of self/home defense situation. All the people I have met who own or would like to own anything larger probably shouldn't have been allowed to. Really, in what situation do you think that you will need an assault rifle or extended magazine?

As for the UN treaty:

What does this have to do with gun control within the US? All I've been able to find about it is conservatives arguing that it will interfere with the 2nd amendment, but none of them seem to be able to explain how. It applies to international trade only.

For the record I am a gun owner and oppose domestic gun control. However these claims that Obama is trying to take our guns really get under my skin. I'm not commenting on Feinstein, as she has nothing to do with Obama or this thread.


I use assault weapons on coyotes, true story.

[Black Jesus]

The term 'assault weapons' is pretty much a meaningless misnomer from the liberal media. It has no real definition other than 'scary-looking'.

Take for example an AR-15, much like what the military uses. The NATO 5.56 round is really not that powerful, and as a full metal jacket still has barely any penetration power and leaves pencil holes through the target.

Now get a .50 cal hunting rifle, and you're shooting through steel crates and still leaving exit wounds the size of watermelons.

So yea, banning assault weapons is dum, since all guns are lethal (kind of the point).



As far as high capacity magazines, it doesn't matter that much to ban them. Reloading takes literally 1 second, even with a bullet button.

It's stupid liberal feel-good laws, like back a few years in Cali you couldn't have a pistol grip and a stock on a shotgun. Liberal brain: Make dangerous weapon harder to control.

The UN Arms Trade Treaty would impose:

* Microstamping on firearms, thus increasing the cost of each gun by about $200;

* Registration of all firearms, which is often a prelude to gun confiscation;

* Restrictions on gun sales, especially private transfers (thus, no more gun shows as we know them);

* Embargoes on firearms and materials (such as nickel and tungsten) that would limit access to many of the firearms which are sold in this country.

[Arclyte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rGpykAX1fo

[SamwiseRed]

the dmg from a 5.56 isnt where it enters and exit lol

[Autotune]

the dmg from a 5.56 isnt where it enters and exit lol

are you trying to say that the 5.56 is some kind of special round? I'd love to hear more if that is what you are implying.

[SamwiseRed]

its magic jk, well its designed to tumble once its penetrated the target. i was merely responding to the statement saying 5.56 is weak because it leaves pencil holes in the target. 5.56 will put someone down if used properly.

[Arclyte]

its garbage

[SamwiseRed]

learn to shoot better? its worked in combat zones for years. if it works on armed and trained terrorists i am sure itll take out the average low-life robber.

[SamwiseRed]

I am not certain on this but I think the main concern with Assualt Rifles is that they are easy to convert to fully auto. I have only handled a few so I am not sure if this goes for all of them but there are kits and/or methods to making the ones I have handled fully auto.

[Autotune]

I am not certain on this but I think the main concern with Assualt Rifles is that they are easy to convert to fully auto. I have only handled a few so I am not sure if this goes for all of them but there are kits and/or methods to making the ones I have handled fully auto.

assault rifles, by definition, are already fully automatic.

assault weapons, used by the media, is a scare tactic

Edit: I should have said most are fully automatic, they can also have burst fire capabilities (which in my opinion is still a form of fully auto)

[SamwiseRed]

None of the civilian AR-15s I've seen are fully auto. Doesn't mean its not an assault rifle.

[Autotune]

None of the civilian AR-15s I've seen are fully auto. Doesn't mean its not an assault rifle.

If they don't have fully automatic or bust fire capabilities, it means they aren't an assault rifle. Stop being fucking stupid.

[SamwiseRed]

First of all, calm down woman. Second, you are the one who said an AR isn't an AR if its not fully auto. Perhaps you should stick to EverQuest lore.

[Autotune]

First of all, calm down woman. Second, you are the one who said an AR isn't an AR if its not fully auto. Perhaps you should stick to EverQuest lore.

AR-15 = not an assault rifle.

Regardless of what you think, believe, wish, hope, pray.

M-16 = an assault rifle

You should probably take your own advice.

[Lowlife]

An assault rifle any rifle designed to fit between a Main Battle Rifle like a FN FAL, and a traditional marksman rifle, like a M1, they shoot intermediate cartriges like 5.56 or 7.62x39 and generally have a pistol grip and box mag. Full/Burst doesn't matter.

A civilian AR or AK can achieve full auto status with a ATF legal sear by using a slidefire stock, anyway.

I never used burst in the service, and my MK12 had full auto but that was retarded.

Anyway, heres my personal build I just finished.

http://i47.tinypic.com/1esz0g.png

[SamwiseRed]

And your point? Sorry that I forgot to check webster/wikipedia for the exact definition of Assault Rifle. Either way what exactly is your point? So they are trying to ban/restrict fully automatic weapons, good no need for them. Unless you are fighing a militia in close quarters, I don't see the point.

[SamwiseRed]

Yea she's just playin with words, typical of someone who doesn't know wtf is going on. It's like saying an M-16 isn't an Assault Rifle while the bolt is taken out. The AR-15 magically becomes an Assault Rifle once it becomes fully auto/capable of 3-round burst.

[Lowlife]

They're going after our semi-autos next dawg.

[Autotune]

An assault rifle any rifle designed to fit between a Main Battle Rifle like a FN FAL, and a traditional marksman rifle, like a M1, they shoot intermediate cartriges like 5.56 or 7.62x39 and generally have a pistol grip and box mag. Full/Burst doesn't matter.

A civilian AR or AK can achieve full auto status with a ATF legal sear by using a slidefire stock, anyway.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault+rifle

assault rifle 
noun
1.
a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.
2.
a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault+rifle

Military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire. Light and portable, yet able to deliver a high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy at modern combat ranges of 1,000–1,600 ft (300–500 m), assault rifles have become the standard infantry weapon of modern armies. Their ease of handling makes them ideal for mobile assault troops crowded into personnel carriers or helicopters, as well as for guerrilla fighters engaged in jungle or urban warfare. Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and FNC, and the German G3.

Would you like to know more, because your stupids are showing.

[SamwiseRed]

LOL exactly what I thought. We got a webster/wikipedia expert here guys watch out.

[Lowlife]

In reality, you understand when politicans and the media say assault rifle, they don't mean class III weapons, right?

Thats the only definition that matters.

[Autotune]

LOL exactly what I thought. We got a webster/wikipedia expert here guys watch out.

Oh, I am sorry. I wasn't aware we were going by what you thought the definition of words meant.

[Lowlife]

They mean pistol grips, detatch mags, bayonet lugs, VFGs and stupid shit like that.

[SamwiseRed]

AR-15 = not an assault rifle.

Regardless of what you think, believe, wish, hope, pray.

M-16 = an assault rifle

You should probably take your own advice.

Since you like to play on words, a fully automatic AR-15 is not an Assault Rifle?

[SamwiseRed]

Way to steer away from the real arguement of whether or not fully automatic weapons are needed for home defense. You sound like the "liberal media" you seem to have problems with by talking about everything BUT the topic.

[Autotune]

Since you like to play on words, a fully automatic AR-15 is not an Assault Rifle?

A fully automatic AR-15 would be an M-16, welcome to the world of guns.

You could also see M-4 and other varieties of the same militarized versions of the originals.

[Lowlife]

And fyi, the ATF classifies semi automatic AK/AR pattern rifles as Assault Rifles, even if semi-auto, anything that is select fire is considered a Machine gun.

Having filled out a ton of class III paperwork for both machine gun, suppressor, and short barrel rifles, their distinction, political distinction, and media distinction.. not wikipedia (And when did that become a reliable source for anything?) is the only relevant definition.

[SamwiseRed]

Umm no converting an AR-15 to fully auto doesn't magically turn it into an M-16.

[Autotune]

Way to steer away from the real arguement of whether or not fully automatic weapons are needed for home defense. You sound like the "liberal media" you seem to have problems with by talking about everything BUT the topic.

Where is anyone referring to having/needing fully automatic weapons for home defense.

I think you're being stupid and confusing assault rifle with assault weapon, again.

[Lowlife]

Also, no one has issued full auto M16s in decades.

So does that make the armories of our Infantry and SOC consist of non assault AR 15s?

[Autotune]

And fyi, the ATF classifies semi automatic AK/AR pattern rifles as Assault Rifles, even if semi-auto, anything that is select fire is considered a Machine gun.

Having filled out a ton of class III paperwork for both machine gun, suppressor, and short barrel rifles, their distinction, political distinction, and media distinction.. not wikipedia (And when did that become a reliable source for anything?) is the only relevant definition.

wikipedia is only one source I used, fall back on that as "omg it's wiki anyone can edit" if you want, there are 2 other sources that state the exact same thing.

[SamwiseRed]

Yea usually people contribute to debates with experiences outside of what they googled 10 minutes ago.

[Lowlife]

I had the only fully auto lower in my unit. And it was on a MK12 DMR.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zzuuc0.png

So you're telling me, no one had an M16 or an Assault Rifle?

[SamwiseRed]

Also all the AR-15 I've seen in this thing I call "real-life" are more like M4s than M16s but then again I don't play on words so I chose not to mention that until now.

[Autotune]

I had the only fully auto lower in my unit. And it was on a MK12 DMR.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2zzuuc0.png

So you're telling me, no one had an M16 or an Assault Rifle?

you're telling me that all of your buddies were using weapons without select-fire capabilities, then yes, by definition, they were using semi-automatic rifles without select-fire capabilities and thus weren't using an Assault rifle.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault+rifle

assault rifle 
noun
1.
a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.
2.
a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault+rifle

Military firearm that is chambered for ammunition of reduced size or propellant charge and has the capacity to switch between semiautomatic and fully automatic fire. Light and portable, yet able to deliver a high volume of fire with reasonable accuracy at modern combat ranges of 1,000–1,600 ft (300–500 m), assault rifles have become the standard infantry weapon of modern armies. Their ease of handling makes them ideal for mobile assault troops crowded into personnel carriers or helicopters, as well as for guerrilla fighters engaged in jungle or urban warfare. Widely used assault rifles are the U.S. M16, the Soviet Kalashnikov (the AK-47 and modernized versions), the Belgian FAL and FNC, and the German G3.

Would you like to know more, because your stupids are showing.

M16s and M4s in the Army aren't capable of automatic fire without modification.

I guess the M4 we used in Iraq and shit aren't assault rifles?

[Lowlife]

Lets go with, like I said above, the ATF, and not wikipedia.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/complete.htm

Semiautomatic assault weapon.

(a) Any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models),
(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,
(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70),
(4) Colt AR-15,
(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,
(6) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12,
(7) Steyr AUG,
(8) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and
(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;


(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher;

[Autotune]

Also all the AR-15 I've seen in this thing I call "real-life" are more like M4s than M16s but then again I don't play on words so I chose not to mention that until now.

I'm sure you have an issue recognizing the different variations. Considering you used the generalized term AR-15 (which can be a magnitude of different weapons), I used the generalized term of M-16 (which is the original military variation of the AR-15).

Huh, who would have thought?

[Lowlife]

M16s and M4s in the Army aren't capable of automatic fire without modification.

I guess the M4 we used in Iraq and shit aren't assault rifles?

Exactly.

[SamwiseRed]

I'm sure you have an issue recognizing the different variations. Considering you used the generalized term AR-15 (which can be a magnitude of different weapons), I used the generalized term of M-16 (which is the original military variation of the AR-15).

Huh, who would have thought?


You should stick to making sandwiches, men are talking.

[Autotune]

M16s and M4s in the Army aren't capable of automatic fire without modification.

I guess the M4 we used in Iraq and shit aren't assault rifles?

They don't have select fire capabilities? You're telling me that all of the M4s were specifically semi-automatic and had no burst fire capabilities?

[Autotune]

Lets go with, like I said above, the ATF, and not wikipedia.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/complete.htm

Semiautomatic assault weapon.

(a) Any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models),
(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,
(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70),
(4) Colt AR-15,
(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,
(6) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12,
(7) Steyr AUG,
(8) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and
(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;


(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher;

thanks.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

They don't have select fire capabilities? You're telling me that all of the M4s were specifically semi-automatic and had no burst fire capabilities?

New model M4s didn't have Burst. The old M16s and M4s did however. I don't really consider a 3 round burst automatic fire though.

Edit: At least a new model M4 that I got handed in 2011 didn't have burst.

[SamwiseRed]

Ah so the ability to switch to 3-round burst is the sole factor on whether I am firing an assault rifle or not.

[Autotune]

I can literally make you all look stupid, all day if you want.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

I have no idea what the original argument is anymore. M16's and M4's and AR15 are assault rifles.

[Autotune]

New model M4s didn't have Burst. The old M16s and M4s did however. I don't really consider a 3 round burst automatic fire though.

Edit: At least a new model M4 that I got handed in 2011 didn't have burst.

One of the main parts of the definition of Assault rifle, is having select fire capabilities which includes burst-fire and fully automatic.

Which the AR-15 (including every variation) you buy at wal-mart, or where ever the fuck, does not have and can not have to be legally sold to a citizen.

[SamwiseRed]

You know, I can't even remember if my last M4 had 3-round burst or not while I was deployed to Iraq. Perhaps its because unlimited ammo wasn't enabled. I guess I'll never know if I was carrying an AR or just a semi-automatic rifle. This changes everything.

[Lowlife]

One of the main parts of the definition of Assault rifle, is having select fire capabilities which includes burst-fire and fully automatic.

Which the AR-15 (including every variation) you buy at wal-mart, or where ever the fuck, does not have and can not have to be legally sold to a citizen.

Already proven false by the ATF and by service personnel.

Everyone else in the thread go get some free Applebees tomorrow.

Autotune learn 2 gun.

[Autotune]

You know, I can't even remember if my last M4 had 3-round burst or not while I was deployed to Iraq. Perhaps its because unlimited ammo wasn't enabled. I guess I'll never know if I was carrying an AR or just a semi-automatic rifle. This changes everything.

Hopefully it will change your intelligence level to were you can properly discern the difference between the definitions of Assault Rifle and Assault Weapon.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

Shrug, the definition really isn't how you define it Autotune. It's how governmental agencies define it and how upcoming legislation defines it. A piece of legislation can define an assault rifle as anything they want and ban the fuck out of it.

Also, where does it say anything about burst or automatic fire?

Semiautomatic assault weapon.

(a) Any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models),
(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,
(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70),
(4) Colt AR-15,
(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,
(6) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12,
(7) Steyr AUG,
(8) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and
(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;


(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher;

[SamwiseRed]

Already proven false by the ATF and by service personnel.

Everyone else in the thread go get some free Applebees tomorrow.

Autotune learn 2 gun.

ah snap I forgot about that. Went their last year and got a free steak. Damn just remembered I lost my VA card well fuck.

[Autotune]

Already proven false by the ATF and by service personnel.

Everyone else in the thread go get some free Applebees tomorrow.

Autotune learn 2 gun.

Your ATF definition is of Assault Weapon, you fucking moron.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

ah snap I forgot about that. Went their last year and got a free steak. Damn just remembered I lost my VA card well fuck.

Show your DD214 worm.

[Autotune]

Shrug, the definition really isn't how you define it Autotune. It's how governmental agencies define it and how upcoming legislation defines it. A piece of legislation can define an assault rifle as anything they want and ban the fuck out of it.

Also, where does it say anything about burst or automatic fire?

Semiautomatic assault weapon.

(a) Any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models),
(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,
(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70),
(4) Colt AR-15,
(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,
(6) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12,
(7) Steyr AUG,
(8) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and
(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;


(B) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of --

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,
(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon,
(3) A bayonet mount,
(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor, and
(5) A grenade launcher;

[Littlegyno 9.0]

Your ATF definition is of Assault Weapon, you fucking moron.

Wait, are we arguing what is an assault weapon and what is an assault rifle?

[Lowlife]

Your ATF definition is of Assault Weapon, you fucking moron.

Because it listed pistols and Shotguns as well, if you narrow it down to a rifle pattern weapon system it'd be an assault.. rifle!

learn 2 ryfil.

[Black Jesus]

In reality, you understand when politicans and the media say assault rifle, they don't mean class III weapons, right?

Thats the only definition that matters.

The only class III weapons license we should need is the 2nd amendment.

Problem with gun laws is you give an inch they take a mile.

[SamwiseRed]

You can't argue with clueless, she will google away until she finds a sentence or two she can bend into supporting her arguement.

[Lowlife]

ah snap I forgot about that. Went their last year and got a free steak. Damn just remembered I lost my VA card well fuck.

I just bust out my salty ass old mil ID

[Autotune]

Wait, are we arguing what is an assault weapon and what is an assault rifle?

It's been quite apparent for quite awhile. However, your buddies can't fathom the difference for some unknown reason.

Definitions are hard.

[Littlegyno 9.0]

It's been quite apparent for quite awhile. However, your buddies can't fathom the difference for some unknown reason.

Definitions are hard.

Isn't an assault rifle just a subtype of the general types of weapons known as assault weapons?

[SamwiseRed]

inc wikipedia/webster cut and paste

most people will consider an m16/m4 an assault rifle whether it has selective fire. i cant think of many situations where someone would use burst. Personally I've never seen it used outside trying to expend ammo or just fucking around.

[Lowlife]

frantic googling is happening.

[Autotune]

Isn't an assault rifle just a subtype of the general types of weapons known as assault weapons?

An Assault weapon can be many things, as you can note from the ATF quote.

An Assault rifle has a specific definition. Some Assault Weapons are nothing like Assault Rifles. However, if you go by these other numbnuts, they believe both are the exact same.

[Lowlife]

The problem is, you keep going back to the fact that assault designation has everything to do with full/burst capability. Which it does not.

[Lowlife]

It has to do with Pistol Grips, Bayonet Lugs, Detatch Box Mags, Barrel devices, and Butt stocks.

[Lowlife]

A Broadened Category of Assault Weapons

While civilian ownership of automatic weapons has been heavily regulated in the U.S. since 1934, most semi-automatic weapons remained legal until 1994.

The AWB defined a broad category of semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns with military-style characteristics as being “assault weapons.” The law made it illegal to make those weapons in the U.S. for a 10-year period. In 2004, the AWB expired when Congress did not vote to renew it. As a result, it became legal to produce and own those firearms once again.

In general, the AWB defined any firearm with a detachable magazine and at least two of certain other characteristics as an assault weapon.

For rifles, those characteristics included:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Grenade launcher
Flash suppressor
For shotguns:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
A capacity to hold more than five rounds
For handguns:

Threaded barrels made to attach a barrel extender, handgrip or flash suppressor
A barrel shroud that can be used as a handhold
Weight of at least 50 oz. when unloaded
Nineteen models of firearms were specifically named in the legislation as assault weapons, while other models were included under the umbrella of the law’s definition of assault weapons.

[Autotune]

The problem is, you keep going back to the fact that assault designation has everything to do with full/burst capability. Which it does not.

The problem is, you can't read very well.

Here, this seems to be more in line to what you believe.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/attachments/general-firearm-discussion/7589d1350864437-ar-ar-15-does-not-stand-assault-rifle-automatic-rifle-journalists-guide-firearms-identification.jpg

[SamwiseRed]

It has to do with Pistol Grips, Bayonet Lugs, Detatch Box Mags, Barrel devices, and Butt stocks.


those things come to mind when thinking of an assault rifle not whether or not it has selective fire but then again, this is coming from experiences in Real-life and not internet definitions.

[Black Jesus]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault+rifle

assault rifle 
noun
1.
a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.
2.
a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire. <----------------

dunno how yall missed this

[hatelore]

I am not certain on this but I think the main concern with Assualt Rifles is that they are easy to convert to fully auto. I have only handled a few so I am not sure if this goes for all of them but there are kits and/or methods to making the ones I have handled fully auto.

This is far from true, I have done gunsmithing for years and can assure you it isn't as easy to convert to fully auto as most people think. Take a ar 15 for instance, this requires an entirely new receiver to be fully automatic. Check out the difference between a fully automatic m-16 receiver and a semi automatic ar-15 receiver. They are nothing alike. Some guns like the mac-10 are able to be made fully automatic without a ton of work, but theirs a big difference between that and a ar-15 rifle. And I think we are sitting at what 80 million american's owning guns? The gubment of obama will have his hands full if he tries to tackle that task.

And before someone mentions it, yes I know about slidefire, but that is not fully automatic and is very hard control and be accurate since you cant shoot the rifle in its normal manner.

And the 223 round is okay, but its nothing to write home about. It carries a pretty decent trajectory for about 150 to 200 yards without a lot of drop, but its not a very large round. Its cheaper then most larger rifle rounds but it doesnt hold water to say a 7.62 round when it comes to effect and stopping power. Just my 2 cents.

[Autotune]

A Broadened Category of Assault Weapons

While civilian ownership of automatic weapons has been heavily regulated in the U.S. since 1934, most semi-automatic weapons remained legal until 1994.

The AWB defined a broad category of semi-automatic rifles, handguns and shotguns with military-style characteristics as being “assault weapons.” The law made it illegal to make those weapons in the U.S. for a 10-year period. In 2004, the AWB expired when Congress did not vote to renew it. As a result, it became legal to produce and own those firearms once again.

In general, the AWB defined any firearm with a detachable magazine and at least two of certain other characteristics as an assault weapon.

For rifles, those characteristics included:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Grenade launcher
Flash suppressor
For shotguns:

Telescoping stock
Pistol grip
A capacity to hold more than five rounds
For handguns:

Threaded barrels made to attach a barrel extender, handgrip or flash suppressor
A barrel shroud that can be used as a handhold
Weight of at least 50 oz. when unloaded
Nineteen models of firearms were specifically named in the legislation as assault weapons, while other models were included under the umbrella of the law’s definition of assault weapons.

I still don't see why you keep linking me definitions of Assault Weapons when you clearly can't discern the difference between it and Assault Rifle.

[SamwiseRed]

This is far from true, I have done gunsmithing for years and can assure you it isn't as easy to convert to fully auto as most people think. Take a ar 15 for instance, this requires an entirely new receiver to be fully automatic. Check out the difference between a fully automatic m-16 receiver and a semi automatic ar-15 receiver. They are nothing alike. Some guns like the mac-10 are able to be made fully automatic without a ton of work, but theirs a big difference between that and a ar-15 rifle. And I think we are sitting at what 80 million american's owning guns? The gubment of obama will have his hands full if he tries to tackle that task.

And before someone mentions it, yes I know about slidefire, but that is not fully automatic and is very hard control and be accurate since you cant shoot the rifle in its normal manner.

And the 223 round is okay, but its nothing to write home about. It carries a pretty decent trajectory for about 150 to 200 yards without a lot of drop, but its not a very large round. Its cheaper then most larger rifle rounds but it doesnt hold water to say a 7.62 round when it comes to effect and stopping power. Just my 2 cents.

ya sorry man, I didn't mean easy as in an idiot like tune could do it. I guess the better word for it would be accessible but even then I may be pushing it. What I am trying to say is that if someone really wants it to be fully auto, they can get it done.

[hatelore]

The problem is, you can't read very well.

Here, this seems to be more in line to what you believe.

http://www.usacarry.com/forums/attachments/general-firearm-discussion/7589d1350864437-ar-ar-15-does-not-stand-assault-rifle-automatic-rifle-journalists-guide-firearms-identification.jpg
I got a good laugh out of this one, lol.

[Autotune]

dunno how yall missed this

Yeah, they should have gone with that, yet they want to argue about Assault rifle definitions by linking me the definition of Assault Weapon.

[SamwiseRed]

good catch
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault+rifle

assault rifle 
noun
1. a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.
2.a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire.

so you kinda fucked yourself there lol

[SamwiseRed]

but again, we can play with words all day, still doesnt change the fact that you have no idea wtf you are talking about.

[Lowlife]

good catch
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault+rifle

assault rifle 
noun
1. a military rifle capable of both automatic and semiautomatic fire, utilizing an intermediate-power cartridge.
2.a nonmilitary weapon modeled on the military assault rifle, usually modified to allow only semiautomatic fire.

so you kinda fucked yourself there lol

this.

[Autotune]

http://www.political-humor.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/guide-to-ar-15.jpg

Yeah, I like how they label me as the one influenced by media with my definitions.

[SamwiseRed]

a wikipedia expert owned herself

[SamwiseRed]

um my definitions come from military training not media lol

[Autotune]

Yes, go with the #2 definition of a word to combat the #1 definition of the word.

You go on with your intelligent selves. I definitely shot myself in the foot with that one...

[Autotune]

I'm not quite sure where that stereotype about people being in the military being unintelligent...

You guys are super smart. Literally overwhelming.

[SamwiseRed]

Doesn't take a genius to google something lol. Keep patting yourself on the back though. Apparently mother didn't praise you when you were small :(

[Autotune]

Doesn't take a genius to google something lol. Keep patting yourself on the back though. Apparently mother didn't praise you when you were small :(

Obviously takes a genius to understand words. I mean, it's not like kids in the 2nd grade are having to learn definitions of words and phrases because that's top level stuff reserved for people in the field. Those are the people that bring us back definitions from the forefront of chaos and war.

[Lowlife]

Obviously takes a genius to understand words. I mean, it's not like kids in the 2nd grade are having to learn definitions of words and phrases because that's top level stuff reserved for people in the field. Those are the people that bring us back definitions from the forefront of chaos and war.

Aaaaand we're done here. I hope you get HPV from a black guy.

You enjoy some cervical cancer, I'll enjoy my semi-automatic Assault Rifle.

Bye thread.

[Tecmos Deception]

Who cares, the 2nd amendment is dumb anyway.

Fuck you.

Also, fuck anyone who thinks they can take away HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of small arms that US citizens have legally owned for hundreds of years. Lol.

[quido]

The semantic difference is irrelevant to the actual discussion. As someone said before, what counts is how the law defines such weapons, not how people traditionally or non-traditionally categorize these weapons.

[Autotune]

Aaaaand we're done here. I hope you get HPV from a black guy.

You enjoy some cervical cancer, I'll enjoy my semi-automatic Assault Rifle.

Bye thread.

Wouldn't have been easier to just admit you were wrong to a woman? Instead you have to go out with a bang (no pun-intended).

[Black Jesus]

Who cares, the 2nd amendment is dumb anyway.

Get the fuck out of here Canadian. Fun fact: Canada's monarch is Queen Elizabeth, and they are slaves without anything like the 2nd amendment.

[hatelore]

The semantic difference is irrelevant to the actual discussion. As someone said before, what counts is how the law defines such weapons, not how people traditionally or non-traditionally categorize these weapons.

Exactly right. And we all know with our government, when you give them an inch, they take a mile.

If Diane fuckstein had her way, she would make it to where a 200 dollar mossberg shotgun from academy would be considered an assault weapon. There truly are people within our government that go to bed at night dreaming about taking away Individuals rights to own and carry firearms. This is fact.

[Autotune]

just so you know autotune your massive insecurity at arguing about this for 10 pages doesn't make you look manly but rather a person with an extremely small penis which he is trying to compensate for

Who cares about being manly when it's about being right or wrong.

I couldn't care less if you thought I was manly, because I am right. Have a nice day :)

[Hailto]

He'd been burgled numerous times before however, whether it was the same guy or not...and the police here were (and still are) useless.

I'd have shot him in the leg and phoned the police, but no matter what I think he had a lot of support from the public here. Perhaps people don't deserve guns, and don't deserve to defend their property... perhaps Obama is right to try and disarm the US...

My grandfather shot a guy in the leg who was attempting to steal his car, the cops congratulated him and gave him more bullets, lol.

[Hailto]

assault rifles, by definition, are already fully automatic.

assault weapons, used by the media, is a scare tactic

Edit: I should have said most are fully automatic, they can also have burst fire capabilities (which in my opinion is still a form of fully auto)

This is correct, now stop arguing you twats.

[gotrocks]

Bout 99.99% sure autotune is a guy.

But keep on wishin' him cervical cancer and the like.

That being said, this thread has been derailed into idiocy.

[degenvf]

Guns can't help you cattle.

[Hitchens]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2mq27vb.jpg

[Lowlife]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2mq27vb.jpg

You have the best character names, ever. My dogs are named likewise.