Sorry Conservatives, but Obama looks like he has this one in the bag

[Lexical]

http://election.princeton.edu/

97+% BIATCHES! :D

[John2020]

dont forget to vote! LOL

[Reiker000]

How many threads do we need to create about an election that was over months ago?

[Lexical]

I don't know, like 12? At least one more for the play by play while the EVs are being tallied.

[Orruar]

Don't apologize to conservatives. Most aren't too hot on Mitt anyway. Apologize to the neocons and other assorted war mongerers.

[Orruar]

Actually, don't apologize to the war mongerers either. They aren't all that upset about Obama's foreign policy.

[Daldolma]

People who cheer for political parties like football teams are unbearable.

Also, Obama winning this election is like 18 month old news.

[Lexical]

I do believe you are the first to mention political parties in this thread Daldolma?

[Daldolma]

Aha, you must have been referring to the 14 non-Republican conservatives.

[Lexical]

There are plenty of other parties that are conservative parties. Libertarians come to mind.

[Daldolma]

Haha okay, I concede. Allow me to amend my original post from 'political parties' to 'political ideologies'.

[Lexical]

Okay. I don't see anyone cheering for political ideologies in this thread Daldolma.

[Lexical]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Daldolma]

97+% BIATCHES! :D

[Lexical]

So Obama is a political ideology? :confused:

[Daldolma]

Sigh. We really going through this? Conservatism is a political ideology -- you addressed conservatism while waving the pom poms for the alternative. Your post could have just as easily read:

"Sorry Heat fans, but the Knicks have this one in the bag. 104-84, BIATCHES!"

[Splorf22]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? Was it when he killed 700+ pakistani civilians with drone strikes? Or maybe it was when he and Bernanke gave 14 trillion to bail out our banking system, a huge sum that went straight to the 0.1% to keep their bonuses coming? Or perhaps its his plan to slaughter small businesses with Obamacare and tax raises on the wealthy? Maybe it was how he's bleeding over a trillion a year into the deficit, raising the US over 100% debt/GDP? Or was it how he's creating millions of part-time jobs for baby boomers while unemployment among younger people (like presumably you) is unchanged? I know, it must be when he gave thousands of guns to mexican drug lords. Perhaps its Obamacare, a bill which was written by the health care industry to maximize their profits while still leaving tens of millions of people uninsured?

Seriously, I can't think of even one thing Obama has done right in office off the top of my head. Now I understand that he came in to the Presidency in the middle of a giant mess created by one of the other worst presidents in history. But he has done 0 to clean it up. I'm not that impressed with Romney either, but he can't possibly be worse than Obama. By sheer chance he ought to be able to get at least one thing right.

[Slug]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? Was it when he killed 700+ pakistani civilians with drone strikes? Or maybe it was when he and Bernanke gave 14 trillion to bail out our banking system, a huge sum that went straight to the 0.1% to keep their bonuses coming? Or perhaps its his plan to slaughter small businesses with Obamacare and tax raises on the wealthy? Maybe it was how he's bleeding over a trillion a year into the deficit, raising the US over 100% debt/GDP? Or was it how he's creating millions of part-time jobs for baby boomers while unemployment among younger people (like presumably you) is unchanged? I know, it must be when he gave thousands of guns to mexican drug lords. Perhaps its Obamacare, a bill which was written by the health care industry to maximize their profits while still leaving tens of millions of people uninsured?

Seriously, I can't think of even one thing Obama has done right in office off the top of my head. Now I understand that he came in to the Presidency in the middle of a giant mess created by one of the other worst presidents in history. But he has done 0 to clean it up. I'm not that impressed with Romney either, but he can't possibly be worse than Obama. By sheer chance he ought to be able to get at least one thing right.

You haven't been paying attention.

[Hasbinlulz]

lol at lexical and his trap cards

[Hasbinlulz]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? Was it when he killed 700+ pakistani civilians with drone strikes? Or maybe it was when he and Bernanke gave 14 trillion to bail out our banking system, a huge sum that went straight to the 0.1% to keep their bonuses coming? Or perhaps its his plan to slaughter small businesses with Obamacare and tax raises on the wealthy? Maybe it was how he's bleeding over a trillion a year into the deficit, raising the US over 100% debt/GDP? Or was it how he's creating millions of part-time jobs for baby boomers while unemployment among younger people (like presumably you) is unchanged? I know, it must be when he gave thousands of guns to mexican drug lords. Perhaps its Obamacare, a bill which was written by the health care industry to maximize their profits while still leaving tens of millions of people uninsured?

Seriously, I can't think of even one thing Obama has done right in office off the top of my head. Now I understand that he came in to the Presidency in the middle of a giant mess created by one of the other worst presidents in history. But he has done 0 to clean it up. I'm not that impressed with Romney either, but he can't possibly be worse than Obama. By sheer chance he ought to be able to get at least one thing right.
This is NOT an endorsement for Mr. Obama.
Splorf, you're a fucking idiot.
This is NOT an endorsement for Mr. Obama.

[Lexical]

There are plenty of other candidates that are not conservative, but I had my fun with that.

Also, I would apologize for offending you with my juvenile locution, but I don't think you really understand why I chose to use such language. I am not, as you so eloquently put it, "waving the pom poms for the alternative," but this whole discussion is asinine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Lexical]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? Was it when he killed 700+ pakistani civilians with drone strikes? Or maybe it was when he and Bernanke gave 14 trillion to bail out our banking system, a huge sum that went straight to the 0.1% to keep their bonuses coming? Or perhaps its his plan to slaughter small businesses with Obamacare and tax raises on the wealthy? Maybe it was how he's bleeding over a trillion a year into the deficit, raising the US over 100% debt/GDP? Or was it how he's creating millions of part-time jobs for baby boomers while unemployment among younger people (like presumably you) is unchanged? I know, it must be when he gave thousands of guns to mexican drug lords. Perhaps its Obamacare, a bill which was written by the health care industry to maximize their profits while still leaving tens of millions of people uninsured?

Seriously, I can't think of even one thing Obama has done right in office off the top of my head. Now I understand that he came in to the Presidency in the middle of a giant mess created by one of the other worst presidents in history. But he has done 0 to clean it up. I'm not that impressed with Romney either, but he can't possibly be worse than Obama. By sheer chance he ought to be able to get at least one thing right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Splorf22]

Lots of ad hominems and youtube links. Looks like I win by TKO. Cheers.

[Lexical]

Lots of ad hominems and youtube links. Looks like I win by TKO. Cheers.

Sorry! I can't hear you over the celebrating of good Obama!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Hasbinlulz]

I don't understand why conservatives are so mad, Obama is a Bush (hw) republican..

[Orruar]

Lots of ad hominems and youtube links. Looks like I win by TKO. Cheers.

It is perhaps naive to expect reasonable debate on these forums, by these people.

[Alarti0001]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? Was it when he killed 700+ pakistani civilians with drone strikes? Or maybe it was when he and Bernanke gave 14 trillion to bail out our banking system, a huge sum that went straight to the 0.1% to keep their bonuses coming? Or perhaps its his plan to slaughter small businesses with Obamacare and tax raises on the wealthy? Maybe it was how he's bleeding over a trillion a year into the deficit, raising the US over 100% debt/GDP? Or was it how he's creating millions of part-time jobs for baby boomers while unemployment among younger people (like presumably you) is unchanged? I know, it must be when he gave thousands of guns to mexican drug lords. Perhaps its Obamacare, a bill which was written by the health care industry to maximize their profits while still leaving tens of millions of people uninsured?

Seriously, I can't think of even one thing Obama has done right in office off the top of my head. Now I understand that he came in to the Presidency in the middle of a giant mess created by one of the other worst presidents in history. But he has done 0 to clean it up. I'm not that impressed with Romney either, but he can't possibly be worse than Obama. By sheer chance he ought to be able to get at least one thing right.

In Summary LOL Derp

[Orruar]

I don't understand why conservatives are so mad, Obama is a Bush (hw) republican..

Bush was a conservative? Facts and logic would seem to disagree with you.

[Tarathiel]

Randy for President 2012

[Splorf22]

It is perhaps naive to expect reasonable debate on these forums, by these people.

veni, vidi, vici

[Sirken]

What has Obama done in office that would make you happy to see him reelected? ...


Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Provided $12.2 Billion in new funding for Individuals With Disabilities Education Act

Signed financial reform law establishing a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to look out for the interests of everyday Americans

Signed financial reform law allowing shareholders of publicly traded companies to vote on executive pay

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

The American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009: a $789 billion economic stimulus plan

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Voluntary disclosure of White House visitors for the first time in US history

Appointed first Latina to the US Supreme Court

Promoted social responsibility through creation of serve.gov, a national database of volunteer opportunities

Reversed 'global gag rule', allowing US aid to go to organizations regardless of whether they provide abortions

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

First president to endorse same-sex marriage equality

Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, restoring basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

Reversed the policy of barring media coverage during the return of fallen soldiers to Dover Air Force Base

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis





theres a bunch of facts for you. now i understand that while watching only Fox News, you may not be accustomed to things like facts. but there they are.

and no, there are not two sides to the facts as Fox News loves to say. theres only one side to facts, thats why they are facts.

and if your so impressed that u find yourself asking, "my gods, what else has he done!?!" feel free to send me a PM and ill gladly wall of text.



Obama is very far from the "perfect" president, dont get me wrong. but the republicans nominated the absolute worst person they could have possibly ran. Romney is a piece of dog shit who thinks everyone is stupid. "But Sirken? how can you possibly know whats in Romney's head/thoughts?!?" thats simple too. when the words coming out of your mouth change with every different audience you speak to, it means 1 of 2 things. either the speaker is mentally retarded. or, the the speaker thinks the audience is mentally retarded.

the guy flip flops more than a fish out of water, and yet some how you feel this spineless excuse of a man should lead the country. lulz


however all that being said. it is still possible to vote for Romney and not be a dumb fucking twat. its ok to vote for Romney if you are any of these things:

1) Rich
2) Stupid
3) Racist
4) Mormon
5) Related to Romney in RL
6) Guilded with Romney on P99
7) never bothered to follow politics over the last 5 years that Romney has been running for president, and have no idea how to look up videos on the interwebz


Election Day Tuesday Nov 6 (contrary to the mass mails that republicans sent out to minority (poor neighborhood) voters in Ohio saying it was Nov 8th)


lets not forget the best quote ever by Romney's campaign manager, "we will not let this campaign be dictated by fact checkers"

/facepalm

[Tarathiel]

lets not forget the best quote ever by Romney's campaign manager, "we will not let this campaign be dictated by fact checkers"

/facepalm

owned

[Tarathiel]

also, kudo's to the thread that got moved out of rnf instead of the other way around

[Yanomamo]

if your so impressed

Why'd you have to go fuck up your credibility with that mistake?

[Lexical]

also, kudo's to the thread that got moved out of rnf instead of the other way around

Think we can get it moved back?

[Hailto]

Just lost a lot of respect for Sirken, I thought for a minute there you might be the rare liberal who can make a point without resorting to name calling, but i was wrong. The majority of you still have the maturity of highschoolers, as evidenced by the fact that while you like to whine and moan about Fox news, most of you get your news from the Daily Show.

[Black Jesus]

Fox News is the only mainstream media source even remotely critical of the ongoing circus, which is mild at best compared to the reality we're living through.

Watching the liberal media, which worships Obama as Black Jesus, is not keeping you informed. The man flip-flopped on everything he said he would do too, because both parties are paid by the same wall street oligarchs.

[Sirken]

Just lost a lot of respect for Sirken, I thought for a minute there you might be the rare liberal who can make a point without resorting to name calling, but i was wrong. The majority of you still have the maturity of highschoolers, as evidenced by the fact that while you like to whine and moan about Fox news, most of you get your news from the Daily Show.

slow down there pal, i'm more than entitled to label dumb twats for what they are. if your voting for Romney, and not in one of the seven categories i listed, then you sir are a dumb twat.

and no, i dont get my news from a comedian. i listen to what British radio news says about us, i watch certain non crazy people on MSNBC and even on Fox News. i assume that EVERY media outlet is going to lie to the public in one way or another. MSNBC being pro-left and Fox being pro-right, with bbc news being pro-Britian

but the truth is somewhere in the middle of all the lies. and if people are smart enough, and care enough to fact check what the candidates are actually saying, then they will get close enough to the truth to make an informed decision.

however with Romney, it doesn't take rocket science to see the guy for the lying piece of shit that he is. go watch the republican primaries, re watch the debates, and then watch the videos on Romneys website. they all contradict each other. if he's not just blatantly lying and making shit up based on whoever he happens to be talking to on that day, then he has the single worst case of multiple personality disorder that i have ever seen in my life.


and for the record, you are entitled to vote anyway you want, and while i may disagree with who you want to see in the White House, i'll defend to the death your right to make that poor decision

<3

[Daldolma]

[LIST]
Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years



theres a bunch of facts for you. now i understand that while watching only Fox News, you may not be accustomed to things like facts. but there they are.

and no, there are not two sides to the facts as Fox News loves to say. theres only one side to facts, thats why they are facts.


Lol. There aren't two sides to facts, there's just context that makes the facts meaningful -- context you're either intentionally excluding or blissfully ignorant of. Obama created jobs in 2010 that he lost in 2009. For Obama's presidency as a whole, there has been a net gain of 562,000 jobs. As a point of reference, Bush gained 1.1 million jobs in his second term -- and Clinton gained 20+ million in his presidency.

If you want to talk just private sector, Obama lost almost 4.7 million private sector jobs in his first year -- more than any year in two-plus decades. In 2010, he regained 1.2 million of those. You have to be insane to act like that's some sort of accomplishment. We lost nearly 9 million private sector jobs between 2008 and 2009, and you want to act like regaining 1.2 million in 2010 is a bullet point on a list of achievements? It's also totally disingenuous to say that 1.2 million represents more than Bush created in his entire presidency. By that reasoning, you could likewise say that Bush created more private sector jobs in 2006 (and 2005, and 2004) than Obama did in his entire presidency. The problem is that you're isolating an up year for one president and comparing it to a net total for the other.

Your next point will almost certainly be that it's Bush's fault that Obama lost jobs in 2009. Bush lost over 2 million private sector jobs in 2001, but I doubt you'd be interested in attributing that to Clinton.

Anyway, there aren't two sides to facts, but some of those facts re: Obama are cherry picked, phrased, and intentionally misrepresented to make Obama look as good as possible despite the actual context of the situation. This was just one example.

[Sirken]

The man flip-flopped on everything he said he would do too...

wall street reform [X]
healthcare [X]
Bin Laden [X]
Guantanamo Bay [ ] (closed one camp, failed to close the other 2. all 3 together make up Guantanamo)
Dont ask Dont tell [X]



while Obama may not have hit all his marks, and may have even been unsuccessful in certain areas, thats not nearly the same as flip flopping, but i'd love to hear some examples of this flip flopping.



<3

[Hailto]

i assure you nobody gives the slightest shit about your respect

That cuts deep, coming from a guy on his 4th troll account on everquest forums.

[Sirken]

Lol. There aren't two sides to facts, there's just context that makes the facts meaningful -- context you're either intentionally excluding or blissfully ignorant of. Obama created jobs in 2010 that he lost in 2009. For Obama's presidency as a whole, there has been a net gain of 562,000 jobs. As a point of reference, Bush gained 1.1 million jobs in his second term -- and Clinton gained 20+ million in his presidency.

If you want to talk just private sector, Obama lost almost 4.7 million private sector jobs in his first year -- more than any year in two-plus decades. In 2010, he regained 1.2 million of those. You have to be insane to act like that's some sort of accomplishment. We lost nearly 9 million private sector jobs between 2008 and 2009, and you want to act like regaining 1.2 million in 2010 is a bullet point on a list of achievements? It's also totally disingenuous to say that 1.2 million represents more than Bush created in his entire presidency. By that reasoning, you could likewise say that Bush created more private sector jobs in 2006 (and 2005, and 2004) than Obama did in his entire presidency. The problem is that you're isolating an up year for one president and comparing it to a net total for the other.

Your next point will almost certainly be that it's Bush's fault that Obama lost jobs in 2009. Bush lost over 2 million private sector jobs in 2001, but I doubt you'd be interested in attributing that to Clinton.

Anyway, there aren't two sides to facts, but some of those facts re: Obama are cherry picked, phrased, and intentionally misrepresented to make Obama look as good as possible despite the actual context of the situation. This was just one example.

because yes, 2009 was clearly Obama's fault. im sure 8 years of crazy had nothing to do with that.

under bush we were hemorrhaging 750,000 jobs per month.

and we've had what now, just about 3 years worth of consecutive job growth minus a month here or there ?

any way you slice it, gaining jobs slowly is better than losing 750,000 per month.


<3

[Daldolma]

however with Romney, it doesn't take rocket science to see the guy for the lying piece of shit that he is. go watch the republican primaries, re watch the debates, and then watch the videos on Romneys website. they all contradict each other. if he's not just blatantly lying and making shit up based on whoever he happens to be talking to on that day, then he has the single worst case of multiple personality disorder that i have ever seen in my life.

Damn. I was getting used to all the honest politicians.

They all lie. They all say what they need to say to get elected. Picking your president on the basis of who seems more honest is ridiculous.

[Tarathiel]

back to rnf in 5....4.....3....

[Hailto]

National deficit is completely unimportant, as long as we get those 750k jobs per month, run it up.

[Sirken]

Damn. I was getting used to all the honest politicians.

They all lie. They all say what they need to say to get elected. Picking your president on the basis of who seems more honest is ridiculous.

if you think all politicians are as bad as Romney i urge you to spend more time following politics. every speaker (political or other) makes slight changes based on the audience.

they do not do complete 180s on the polices that they are running on.

i sometimes wonder if Romney even is aware of the fact that all his shit hes said is on tape and can be view by any asshole with a library card.






all this, and i havent even mentioned the tape where Romney did not know he was being recorded, and decided to put 47% of America on blast.

[Sirken]

National deficit is completely unimportant, as long as we get those 750k jobs per month, run it up.

read better. we were LOSING 750k per month

we arent gaining anywhere close to 750k per month.

as i said, its way to slow.

but its better than still losing jobs.


(i choose to ignore your sarcasm, because u resorting to it is a sign of defeat on your part, and im enjoying our discussion).

[Splorf22]

Sirken, let me see if I understand your points here:

1. You like Obama because he spends money on things you like, like americans with disabilities or or military families to go visit their loved ones. Well, those are called special interest groups. We have another, more obnoxious special interest group: its called the bankers. And Obama/Bernanke together gave them 14 trillion dollars which went directly to bank bonuses for the 0.1%. Gee that seems like about 1000 times more than he gave your guys. I thought Obama was for the little guy . . .

2. You like Obama because he looks out for women and minorities. Guess what: women and minorities are doing fine on their own. Hanna Rosin had an article a full two years ago about how women get 60% of college degrees and are going to be a majority in the workforce soon - she called it the End of Men. The old canard about women making 70 cents for every dollar a man makes has been debunked numerous times: women work fewer hours, take more vacation, dont go into STEM fields as much. I should also mention that Sotomayor is a huge racist: "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life" If a white male had said that about her, he would have been crucified by CNN.

3. You like Obama because he put legislation in place to control the banks. Aside from the facts that he gave them 14 trillion and that Clinton, a Democrat, was the one who repealed Glass-Steagall, what do you think about the robosigning scandal, where Obama's DOJ let the banks off with a slap on the wrist after they fraudulently foreclosed on millions of Americans with fake documents?

4. You like Obama because he 'promotes social responsibility', but how about civil rights. Do you have any comments on Obama and the NDAA?

I think I'm going to leave the final comment to Alexander Fraser Tytler: "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy..."

[Sirken]

and now after reading my responses im seeing that you have backed me into a "pro-Obama" person, and that's also not the case. as i said earlier in this thread,

Obama is very far from the "perfect" president, dont get me wrong. but the republicans nominated the absolute worst person they could have possibly ran.

[Hailto]

How can you have a serious discussion about Obama's policies and what he has accomplished without at least addressing the fact that he has increased our national debt by $6 trillion? The fact that we have spent such a stupid amount of money (i realize Bush started the stimulus, i don't vouch for him either) and we still aren't seeing any sort of significant growth should be able to tell you that what we are doing simply doesn't work. Given that fact, how can you vote for the incumbent?

[Lexical]

Who needs the presidential debates with Romney? You can watch him debate himself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWgYEkArxos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZfXvFAeHVo

[Splorf22]

band we've had what now, just about 3 years worth of consecutive job growth minus a month here or there ?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-02/chart-day-americas-geriatric-work-force

i'm more than entitled to label dumb twats for what they are

Personally I think insults say more about the insulter than the insultee.

[Lexical]

How can you have a serious discussion about Obama's policies and what he has accomplished without at least addressing the fact that he has increased our national debt by $6 trillion?

3.5 trillion >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Appendix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Splorf22]

Who needs the presidential debates with Romney? You can watch him debate himself!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWgYEkArxos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZfXvFAeHVo

I do love those links though. I'm a Ron Paul guy myself and not at all thrilled with Mitt, I just think a chimpanzee from the zoo who urinated on every proposed bill could do a better job than Barak.

[Hailto]

3.5 trillion >.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Appendix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57505995-503544/as-national-debt-passes-16-trillion-gop-blasts-obamas-policies-/

From a credible news source, not wikipedia.

[Hailto]

owned

Get back to me when you have something to contribute to the discussion besides one liners.

[Lexical]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57505995-503544/as-national-debt-passes-16-trillion-gop-blasts-obamas-policies-/

From a credible news source, not wikipedia.

I am loled. CBS = bullshit mainstream media. But I will link you the sources that wikipedia links. Good news! they are actually primary sources :D

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2011-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2011-TAB.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

[Lexical]

It doesn't even matter though! Voting for Romney is throwing your vote away! 97+% GUYS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Hailto]

I am loled. CBS = bullshit mainstream media. But I will link you the sources that wikipedia links. Good news! they are actually primary sources :D

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BUDGET-2011-TAB/pdf/BUDGET-2011-TAB.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

You're linking me to 400 page spreadsheets. Find your data in there, and get back to me.

Also your original table from wikipedia ends at 2010, you might want to look at it more carefully.

[Sirken]

Sirken, let me see if I understand your points here:



you got colored all wrong Splorf. i'm not saying i agree with these things Obama has done, or even that they are good ideas.

i'm just saying that he did in fact do them. again as i said earlier, hes far from the perfect president. but he's better than Romney would be.

i agree with a lot of right policies, i just dont agree with Romney as a human being.

honestly my beliefs would get me tossed out of both parties as some are lefty and some are righty


Kristie / Rubio 2016 may see me batting for the right. who knows. lets see if the right has the balls to get rid of these tea baggers and restore the republican party to what it once was.

but thats not happening in 2012.



(and btw everyone, i know political debates can get heated, and people feel very strongly for whatever side they believe in. i wanna thank everyone for keeping it constructive and mostly clean ;) )

[Sirken]

It doesn't even matter though! Voting for Romney is throwing your vote away! 97+% GUYS!
not if u live in ohio ;)

[Reiker000]

How I hope things go down:

Obama wins the election. Fast forward to the inauguration. Obama is standing before thousands of adorers. He begins to speak,

"People of the United States of America... I am honored by your faith and commitment in these trying times. But the fact is... I can't handle this shit anymore."

Confetti and balloons fall as Bill Clinton enters the stage.

"That is why Bill Clinton will be taking over from here. Peace out fuckers."

*crowd cheers wildly as Bill Clinton takes the oath*

[Daldolma]

because yes, 2009 was clearly Obama's fault. im sure 8 years of crazy had nothing to do with that.

under bush we were hemorrhaging 750,000 jobs per month.

and we've had what now, just about 3 years worth of consecutive job growth minus a month here or there ?

any way you slice it, gaining jobs slowly is better than losing 750,000 per month

The issue isn't whether or not 2009 was Obama's fault -- and there's a very real argument to be made that he could've done more to minimize the damage. The issue is that you're counting it as an accomplishment that he regained a portion of jobs that had just been lost via a massive recession. Unless you were expecting another Great Depression, that was going to happen no matter who was president.

And we weren't 'hemorrhaging 750,000 jobs per month'. That's a gross misrepresentation. Bush hadn't lost 700,000 jobs in a month at any point of the term until November, after Obama was elected and he was a lame duck president. For Bush's last 3 months, and Obama's first 3 months, we saw the trough of the job market. It wasn't sustainable, and Obama isn't some kind of economic savior for stopping it.

Again, we lost almost 9 million private sector jobs in 2 years. I don't know how much worse you could have possibly expected it to get, unless you expected the entire US economy to fail. This seems to be the way people make a case for Obama. "Pay no attention to what he's actually done... just imagine how much worse it could've been (according to me)". By that logic, praise George W Bush for keeping us all safe. In the very first year of his term, the US suffered its worst ever attack at the hands of foreign enemies. We were hemorrhaging lives (and jobs). If not for Bush, they'd have kept killing us and attacking major American cities. Note: that is ridiculous.

And yes, steady growth beats losses, but what you're not understanding or acknowledging is that our steady growth still has us firmly within the crater of our recession. We're still clawing to get back to where we were in mid-2008 -- something that is inevitable in the aftermath of a recession. That's the way it works. You don't just continue losing jobs forever until there are no jobs left. We already bottomed out. Regaining 1.2 million jobs after losing 8.75 isn't praiseworthy. Citing the 1.2 million and excluding any mention of the 8.75 is disingenuous at best.

[Lexical]

You're linking me to 400 page spreadsheets. Find your data in there, and get back to me.

Also your original table from wikipedia ends at 2010, you might want to look at it more carefully.

:confused: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Hailto]

Yeah, learn to read tables first before you make claims, it helps. But hey, at least you have a cute Southpark video :3

[Splorf22]

you got colored all wrong Splorf. i'm not saying i agree with these things Obama has done, or even that they are good ideas.

i'm just saying that he did in fact do them. again as i said earlier, hes far from the perfect president. but he's better than Romney would be.

So in my opinion Obama has done everything wrong, and the things I've posted have been major things while your list of things was mostly minor, i.e. letting military people see their families. So it seems you basically agree that Obama has been bad, you just think of Romney as two-timing slime and even worse.

But, lets step back a second. Since Romney has basically promised everything to everyone, what will he do in office? Let's look at Romney's record. He's rescued multiple organizations from bankruptcy and actually invented Obamacare, if you are into that nationalized healthcare thing. If we are comparing records, Romney's is about a million times better. And I prefer to look at what people do rather than what they say.

[Daldolma]

I must be missing something, I don't understand why that video has been linked a half dozen times.

[Hailto]

I must be missing something, I don't understand why that video has been linked a half dozen times.

Its what people do when they have no idea what they are talking about, and are proven wrong.

[Lexical]

Yeah, learn to read tables first before you make claims, it helps. But hey, at least you have a cute Southpark video :3

lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

you are right.... it is 4.2 trillion not 3.5 trillion :(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Recent_additions_to_the_ public_debt_of_the_United_States

I don't even know why you are getting so defensive though. That is a lot of money Obama is spending. One of the big things I don't like about him, but he is at least adamant about fixing our corporate tax code which is a travesty in and of itself.

[Rain1]

Loraen, it is about which Romney are we going to see if he is elected? The centrist that he has been in the past (which would be good for America in my opinion)? Or the man who has been espousing tea party, far right garbage? I would hope he would be the centrist, but after hearing him say that essentially 47% of Americans are essentially shit, there is no way he is winning my vote. Sorry, can't trust him personally.

[Lexical]

Its what people do when they have no idea what they are talking about, and are proven wrong.

you have yet to do this, but I have proven you wrong; therefore, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Lexical]

I must be missing something, I don't understand why that video has been linked a half dozen times.

97+% MAN! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

[Daldolma]

So in my opinion Obama has done everything wrong, and the things I've posted have been major things while your list of things was mostly minor, i.e. letting military people see their families. So it seems you basically agree that Obama has been bad, you just think of Romney as two-timing slime and even worse.

But, lets step back a second. Since Romney has basically promised everything to everyone, what will he do in office? Let's look at Romney's record. He's rescued multiple organizations from bankruptcy and actually invented Obamacare, if you are into that nationalized healthcare thing. If we are comparing records, Romney's is about a million times better. And I prefer to look at what people do rather than what they say.

That's exactly how I feel. I'm not a huge Romney fan at all, but I don't really care what he says -- or what Obama says -- on the campaign trail. They're all full of shit. I don't care to differentiate the degrees of bullshit.

[Daldolma]

97+% MAN! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WXhO_-e3bM

Shrug, I don't get it. Is it just a lulz umad type troll? Or is there something about the South Park episode I'm not picking up on? I am :confused:

[Daldolma]

Loraen, it is about which Romney are we going to see if he is elected? The centrist that he has been in the past (which would be good for America in my opinion)? Or the man who has been espousing tea party, far right garbage? I would hope he would be the centrist, but after hearing him say that essentially 47% of Americans are essentially shit, there is no way he is winning my vote. Sorry, can't trust him personally.

Which seems more likely? That his beliefs are more in line with the way he exerted former power, or with the things he has said to get power?

A lot of people will say whatever they have to in order to get hired. That's why you ask for references.

[Hailto]

you are right

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2012/05/03/the-united-states-enters-the-twilight-zone/

^ Thats the source for your second table you have linked, written in May of 2012, National debt was at 15.6 trillion, it is now November. When Obama took office we were at 10 trillion, you do the math. Or are you going to dispute the debt when Obama took office and force me to prove you wrong there as well.

[EQtrader]

sirken is a joke, everything he says is just trying to back out of his first post on how much he loves obama. Obama is at the top of the list of worst presidents, with lincoln,carter,clinton and then on the top obama.

Here even joe biden will tell you the truth... just watch!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OPdTSnmzdb4

[Splorf22]

YES! Someone else who has lincoln on their list of worst presidents. The man was a tyrant who got more americans killed than any other president - the civil war is still the worst war in american history.

You're still missing GWB and FDR though.

[EQtrader]

I still think bush handled 9/11 pretty good, yea FDR horrible.

Joe Biden best vice president ever in history....

The proof is in the pudding...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=HWlSX9TT2eo

[Hailto]

I think there is actually something mentally wrong with Joe Biden.

[Splorf22]

Loraen, it is about which Romney are we going to see if he is elected? The centrist that he has been in the past (which would be good for America in my opinion)? Or the man who has been espousing tea party, far right garbage? I would hope he would be the centrist, but after hearing him say that essentially 47% of Americans are essentially shit, there is no way he is winning my vote. Sorry, can't trust him personally.

I think its far more likely both Obama and Romney will continue to be the people they were before the election than that they will actually follow through on much of their rhetoric.

In other breaking news, I just realized I misused i.e. instead of e.g. C'mon Daldoma, I need you to catch these things for me!

[EQtrader]

rock skip away from being your president if you elect obama again

[Lexical]

Shrug, I don't get it. Is it just a lulz umad type troll? Or is there something about the South Park episode I'm not picking up on? I am :confused:

eh, it is a troll, but more of a sophomoric type boasting about the likelihood of Obama's victory. I also find Randy Marsh hilarious. Don't look too far into it though :D

[Lexical]

http://blogs.reuters.com/muniland/2012/05/03/the-united-states-enters-the-twilight-zone/

^ Thats the source for your second table you have linked, written in May of 2012, National debt was at 15.6 trillion, it is now November. When Obama took office we were at 10 trillion, you do the math. Or are you going to dispute the debt when Obama took office and force me to prove you wrong there as well.

FINE! 5.6 TRILLION! Jeese, I agree. Obama spent too much while in office. I agreed earlier. You are literally arguing semantics, but if you want that victory than you can have it.

You are right, I misread the table. I was hyped up on Randy Marsh marching through a giant crowd of people blowing a noise maker and chanting Obama's name. I was blissfully listening to the many renditions of different celebratory music that feature Obama as the main content. You wanna break me down!? Well fine! That still doesn't change the fact that Obama has a statistical 97+% chance of victory :D

[Tasslehofp99]

lol in the aftermath of hurricane sandy on long island, new york...I can confidently say the federal government is failing more and more on a daily basis. Long Island looks similar to new orleans after hurricane katrina, I'd say that the events that happened up here may sway the election one way or another.

[Tasslehofp99]

Oh -- and republicans and democrats are the same at this point in my opinion. Both sides = Rich white (mostly) assholes who dont give a fuck about anything but keeping poor people nice and poor and under control. Time for a 3rd party to emerge, and wipe out the old way of thinking imo...I refuse to vote for a republican or a democrat.

[Hailto]

$2,100,000,000,000 difference in debt has become simple semantics, god save us.

[Lexical]

It is when our GDP is 15,075,675,000,000 :P

[Hasbinlulz]

Bush was a conservative? Facts and logic would seem to disagree with you.
hw, not w.

[Lexical]

On a lighter subject, I must say out of all the signatures on this forum, Hailto, yours gives me some of the best laughs.

[Lexical]

It isn't as good as Slug's though :(

[Hailto]

It is when our GDP is 15,075,675,000,000 :P

It would take more than a full year to pay off our debt, if we dedicated every penny of our GDP to it. If you don't think thats a huge problem you need to retake econ 101.

Thanks though, i liked your Frank Sinatra avatar better, you should go back to that one.

[Lexical]

You are right. Our debt when consider in its entirety is something to be worried about, but that wasn't my/your point.

[Black Jesus]

GDP is not the same as taxable revenue income. It is mathematically impossible to pay off the debt, by design. Partly why America was declared bankrupt in the 20's/30's and they took everyone's gold.

[Lexical]

GDP is not the same as taxable revenue income. It is mathematically impossible to pay off the debt, by design. Partly why America was declared bankrupt in the 20's/30's and they took everyone's gold.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5w9qpUKhq1r5jtugo1_400.gif

[Sirken]

sirken is a joke, everything he says is just trying to back out of his first post on how much he loves obama.

i was clarifying, not backing out. big difference. please try harder to keep up.

and why back out when i can just edit or delete my posts? :p

[Sithel1988]

http://i.qkme.me/3oy61i.jpghttp://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/28197348.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_malqerdnUC1rd3fdpo1_500.jpg

[Reiker000]

lol in the aftermath of hurricane sandy on long island, new york...I can confidently say the federal government is failing more and more on a daily basis.

Yeah, why didn't those fuckers just stop the hurricane?

[Lexical]

National deficit is completely unimportant, as long as we get those 750k jobs per month, run it up.

The funny thing is that this is exactly Romney's domestic plan. Increase defense spending by 3 trillion, cut taxes on the already untaxed, and then we will balance the budget.

[Lexical]

Thanks though, i liked your Frank Sinatra avatar better, you should go back to that one.

But Audrey Hepburn!

[MrSparkle001]

lol in the aftermath of hurricane sandy on long island, new york...I can confidently say the federal government is failing more and more on a daily basis. Long Island looks similar to new orleans after hurricane katrina, I'd say that the events that happened up here may sway the election one way or another.

They won't sway the election here, but I do have to wonder why the media was all up the government's ass after Katrina for it's failed response but you aren't hearing a peep about the failed response after Sandy, unless you're here in the tri-state area with me.

The president visited for a few hours, went right back to campaigning, and it's "The government is responding well to Sandy! Go FEMA!"

[Diggles]

Yeah, why didn't those fuckers just stop the hurricane?

[Kope]

The fact that we have spent such a stupid amount of money (i realize Bush started the stimulus, i don't vouch for him either) and we still aren't seeing any sort of significant growth should be able to tell you that what we are doing simply doesn't work. Given that fact, how can you vote for the incumbent?

Unfortunately because of the way the world economy is it's literally impossible for the US economy to boom back like it did from previous recessions.

Many economists, including Stephen Dubner are saying we need to look at sustainability and slow growth rather than booming growth. The golden age of growth is over in the US economy.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/freakonomics-radio/hidden-side-us-economic-growth-it-over

David Brooks has also been saying this since the beginning of the recession that we need to get used to slow growth.

The president has very little control over our economy as a whole, he basically just sets the tone for the debates in the house. Both presidential hopefuls are perpetuating the lie that they will fix something they have no control over.

[radditsu]

Unfortunately because of the way the world economy is it's literally impossible for the US economy to boom back like it did from previous recessions.

Many economists, including Stephen Dubner are saying we need to look at sustainability and slow growth rather than booming growth. The golden age of growth is over in the US economy.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/freakonomics-radio/hidden-side-us-economic-growth-it-over

David Brooks has also been saying this since the beginning of the recession that we need to get used to slow growth.

The president has very little control over our economy as a whole, he basically just sets the tone for the debates in the house. Both presidential hopefuls are perpetuating the lie that they will fix something they have no control over.


People seem to forget that most of our trading partners in the world are in a recession as well. Even China's growth is slowing, they are shifting domestic spending into overdrive to hide that fact / to spur on their 15% annual GDP growth as they have seen in the past few years. I would not be suprised if they have already shrunk to 3-5% GDP and are hiding it with trillions upon trillions of infrastructure improvements. Spain, Greece, UK, Ireland, Italy...well everybody outside of India, Germany, and Some Asian countries economies are shrinking. Domestic consumption can't absorb these export hits. It is death by 1000 cuts.
The only real thing our government can do is invest in education/infrastructure, and ride out the Ebb in the European/Asian markets. Our foreign oil consumption has dropped by 20% since George W left. In 20 years we will be distributing oil to other countries instead of being one of the largest consumers of oil. Much like Russia is experiencing right now. If we continue to invest in other forms of energy consumption, we will have one more great boom producing fossil fuels for emerging economies. Hopefully by then we will have the federation and warp drive and replicators and shit.

[Kope]

People seem to forget that most of our trading partners in the world are in a recession as well. Even China's growth is slowing, they are shifting domestic spending into overdrive to hide that fact / to spur on their 15% annual GDP growth as they have seen in the past few years. I would not be suprised if they have already shrunk to 3-5% GDP and are hiding it with trillions upon trillions of infrastructure improvements. Spain, Greece, UK, Ireland, Italy...well everybody outside of India, Germany, and Some Asian countries economies are shrinking. Domestic consumption can't absorb these export hits. It is death by 1000 cuts.
The only real thing our government can do is invest in education/infrastructure, and ride out the Ebb in the European/Asian markets. Our foreign oil consumption has dropped by 20% since George W left. In 20 years we will be distributing oil to other countries instead of being one of the largest consumers of oil. Much like Russia is experiencing right now. If we continue to invest in other forms of energy consumption, we will have one more great boom producing fossil fuels for emerging economies. Hopefully by then we will have the federation and warp drive and replicators and shit.

Actually I've also heard a few people propose we transition to a type of "selling advancement and maintanence" economy.

We would sell technological advancements to countries and charge them for upkeep to a degree, but we would put almost all of our investments into R&D. I actually love this idea but I honestly don't see how it would be sustainable for long periods of time once people start getting caught up, unless we really develop technologies at an astronomical rate.

[Pringles]

Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Provided $12.2 Billion in new funding for Individuals With Disabilities Education Act

Signed financial reform law establishing a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to look out for the interests of everyday Americans

Signed financial reform law allowing shareholders of publicly traded companies to vote on executive pay

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

The American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009: a $789 billion economic stimulus plan

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Voluntary disclosure of White House visitors for the first time in US history

Appointed first Latina to the US Supreme Court

Promoted social responsibility through creation of serve.gov, a national database of volunteer opportunities

Reversed 'global gag rule', allowing US aid to go to organizations regardless of whether they provide abortions

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

First president to endorse same-sex marriage equality

Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, restoring basic protections against pay discrimination for women and other workers

Provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

Reversed the policy of barring media coverage during the return of fallen soldiers to Dover Air Force Base

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis






You forgot the part about Obama increasing the national debt 52% in one term.

[Kope]

You forgot the part about Obama increasing the national debt 52% in one term.

Because Obama signed the legislation to enact this?

[happyhappy]

You forgot the part about Obama increasing the national debt 52% in one term.

You forgot the part where he did it in order to fix the mess Bush started.

[MrSparkle001]

You forgot the part where he did it in order to fix the mess Bush started.

You don't fix a mess by adding 6 trillion to the deficit (which didn't work anyway).

[radditsu]

Actually I've also heard a few people propose we transition to a type of "selling advancement and maintanence" economy.

We would sell technological advancements to countries and charge them for upkeep to a degree, but we would put almost all of our investments into R&D. I actually love this idea but I honestly don't see how it would be sustainable for long periods of time once people start getting caught up, unless we really develop technologies at an astronomical rate.

This would only work if we invest in education /technology now. Countries already have a head start with full fiber optic networks setup from the ground up, while we are STILL trying to keep a slow copper infrastructure now. Most telecom companies do not want to spend the money to upgrade our core at this time. Remember Comcast in the early 2000s? They spent a GIANT nut on infrastructure, immediately went bankrupt, and wiped that debt out. <3 the bankruptcy laws about 12 years ago.

[Kope]

You don't fix a mess by adding 6 trillion to the deficit (which didn't work anyway).

In all honesty a large portion of that was for the banks and the auto industry.

1) the banks were in deep crud and weren't loaning money which halted the economy. The US government stepped in and bailed out the banks and then gave them even more money so they could loan it out to get the economy started again (economy has grown since).

2) the Auto industry bailouts did save the American auto companies from going bankrupt so they stopped hemorrhaging jobs and actually started adding on.

I'm not going to put my own opinions on either of these events, but we did get pulled out of hemorrhaging jobs and a downward spiraling economy. If you don't think we're doing better than we were I have a few economists that would like to have a discussion with you.

*edit* just a side point about the debt/deficit. The 2 wars weren't put on the books until Obama took office.

BTW I'm not voting for Obama, or Romney :P

[Nordenwatch]

By the way, Ronald Reagan was the worst president.

[Heebee]

I will not be voting.