Returning to the land of Evercrack

[1203jjt]

It's been a while...I'm glad someone has taken the time to create this project, and I'm looking forward to getting started.

I'm introducing my woman to the land of Norath. From the class descriptions, she's leaning towards playing a monk. My main was a cleric in EQ, but I want something with a bit more versatility this time around. I know that we'll need a healer in the duo to be effective, so that leaves druid and shaman. Just curious about everyone's opinion on what the better choice would be for a partner for a monk. Again, I know it's all up to personal preference, but since it's been a while, I want to make sure I'm not overlooking a distinct advantage one of these 2 classes has...

[Ryndar]

Monk, druid, shaman and cleric are the most played classes on the server.

A Paladin, Cleric duo may be a better choice.

[Furniture]

paladins are pretty shitty nowadays, id say stick to a monk for her or have her go shadowknight


as for you id say go with a shaman or cleric, druids get pretty shitty at high levels but shamans and clerics always stay useful

[1203jjt]

A paladin/cleric duo seems pretty repetitive to me...I'd rather complement one another than have the same line of spells.

[1203jjt]

paladins are pretty shitty nowadays, id say stick to a monk for her or have her go shadowknight


as for you id say go with a shaman or cleric, druids get pretty shitty at high levels but shamans and clerics always stay useful

I think the xp penalty turned her off the sk...that was my top choice for her though haha...she insists on not being a healer, so it's left to me. I think the shaman would probably be more interesting to me than a cleric, plus the constant sow would be nice for us both.

I guess the main reason the druid seems attractive is because of the ports...traveling around can be such a pain. There's always the option to pay for ports too though...hmmmm...maybe shaman it is. Now troll or ogre...My gut says troll because of the regen.

[Furniture]

troll is nice for the regen, but ogre is really top choice for the frontal stun immunity, because at high levels you will solo/farm stuff by tanking with torpor/slows and not being interrupted so easily while casting and doing this is a big plus

troll regen is really great for a long time, but by the time you get yourself a fungi tunic and have your regen line of spells the extra regen will be kind of negligible

you cant go wrong with either one though, but for the long term id say ogre is the better choice

make sure though that whichever you start as, you make sure you have at least 75 agility, otherwise you will suffer a big ac penalty


and yeah shaman/monk is an amazing combo, considering all the crazy buffs, regen, sow, slows, haste, etc makes it way better then a druid/monk combo

[Ephirith]

Roll a shaman. This topic has been beaten to death in thread, after thread, after thread, do a forum search if you want more detail, but here's the scoop:

Druids do have some perks, but in the vast majority of situations shamans are a far more powerful class, and that power brings versatility-- particularly when you are planning on duoing with a monk. The ability to slow a mob and utterly neuter its damage output just makes life too easy, the spell alone is arguably more powerful than the entire druid class.

Though the spell choices to druids and shamans are comparable, shamans have the ability to cannibalize health into mana, greatly increasing the rate of mana recovery and therefore the healing/utility potential of the class.

A druid and monk will bump along just fine, especially if you're geared, well into the 30's and maybe early 40's. But after that the viability of the duo to xp at a decent rate will just fall apart. Shamans and monks synergize exceptionally well, as the shaman has excellent melee buffs and haste.

(Don't forget, at level 29 a shaman is able to charm animals! If you decide to duo outdoors, this can be a HUGE bonus until the mid 30's when you kind of lose the ability to charm)

Also, do not make a paladin/cleric duo, that is just terrible.

Now troll or ogre...My gut says troll because of the regen.

Ogres tend to be the favored choice among players who want the best shaman. As the above post said, frontal stun immunity is a big bonus while the benefits of regen will be watered down over time.

Don't make an sk to be part of a duo with a shaman, it's just worse than monk/shaman in almost every way.

[Ferok]

If you a) expect your wife to quit quickly and b) plan to spend the majority of your time soloing at level 60 then you can make an argument for Ogre. Otherwise pick Troll.

[1203jjt]

Thanks for all the input guys :) Shaman it is...also, looking at the base stats for shaman on troll v. ogre, it seems like the ogre pwns there. I'll make sure to increase the agility to 75, and then their higher wis and stam should pay off.

[1203jjt]

If you a) expect your wife to quit quickly and b) plan to spend the majority of your time soloing at level 60 then you can make an argument for Ogre. Otherwise pick Troll.

Because of the troll's regen? Or am I overlooking something?

[Ferok]

Because of the troll's regen? Or am I overlooking something?

Because of the regen, yes. HP regen == mana regen for Shaman. Frontal stun immunity is nice for soloing, but regen is vastly preferable until torpor is available. And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.

[1203jjt]

Because of the regen, yes. HP regen == mana regen for Shaman. Frontal stun immunity is nice for soloing, but regen is vastly preferable until torpor is available. And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.

Point taken :) At least with regen, it's pretty much always working for you, whereas the stun is more situational...

[Ferok]

Regen rates from: an old monkly business article (http://www.monkly-business.net/index.php?pageid=abilities)

Level 1:
Troll/Iksar: 4pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 2pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 20:
Troll/Iksar: 6pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 3pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 50:
Troll/Iksar: 8pt sitting, 2pt standing
Other: 4pt sitting, 1pt standing

level 51:
Troll/Iksar: 12pt sitting, 6pt standing
Other: 5pt sitting, 2pt standing

level 56:
Troll/Iksar: 16pt sitting, 10pt standing
Other: 6pt sitting, 3pt standing


level 60:
Troll/Iksar: 18pt sitting, 12pt standing
Other: 7pt sitting, 4pt standing

[Raavak]

Monk and shaman is a great combo.

[Ephirith]

And if you're not soloing, frontal stun immunity is basically irrelevant.

You and your monk decide you want to camp Ass/sup, King, or frenzy in Guk. The monk is splitting most of the mobs and bringing them single, and your mana has no trouble keeping up with the pace of the pulling. Suddenly, either:

1. Root breaks, a mob runs, you try to root it but it resists
2. Monk botches a pull and brings 3-4 or more mobs
3. Adds out of nowheres.

As a shaman you need to CC the adds. You root 2 or 3 of them and slow the one the monk is killing. Guk has tight corridors so you can't really put space between you and the rooted mobs. You start trying to slow the rooted mobs when one of them breaks, runs over to you, and bashes you.

If you're a troll, you are stunned for a moment and your spell is interrupted.

If you're an ogre, the bash does not stun you, and you immediately proceed with what you are doing.

Every time a monk/shaman has multiple adds, the shaman will root them. When root breaks, the mobs rush the shaman and usually open with a bash. A bash will stun the troll. Maybe your monk is taking excessive damage from a spam-happy froglok wizard-- those seconds spent stunned add up to a significant difference in your ability to respond.

A troll's ability to regenerate will slightly increase their efficiency over time, but it will do almost nothing to get them through a tough situation where the shaman is dealing with mobs. At later levels, with a fungi tunic, regrowth, and perhaps torpor, racial regen becomes increasingly negligible while ogres still have the same innate advantage in situations where the shaman has to deal with CCing mobs or taking hits in a stressful situation.

I'm not trying to say troll is a poor choice, or that regen isn't beneficial. But it's going too far to say frontal stun immunity only helps when you're solo.

[1203jjt]

^Well put...ogres also don't have the xp penalty that trolls do...this is going to be a tough decision :/

[Ferok]

^Well put...ogres also don't have the xp penalty that trolls do...this is going to be a tough decision :/

15% (Ogre Shaman) vs 20% (Troll Shaman).

http://wiki.project1999.org/Shaman#Experience_Statistics

[Hailto]

Play a barbarian; not looking like a fat blob is way more important. I've had no problem with stun/regen. Also, last time I checked the shaman that have progressed furthest on the solo challenge are all barbarians, its not game breaking.

[Ferok]

I'm not trying to say troll is a poor choice, or that regen isn't beneficial. But it's going too far to say frontal stun immunity only helps when you're solo.

But you'd agree it's mostly beneficial when you're solo.

Yes, you'll get bashed from time to time on a root break, resist, etc while grouped.

But lets break that down:
Alot of the time (esp in close quarters), you're sitting. Still stunned if Ogre? Not sure, but either way the impact to your response time is negligible.
Some of the time, you're not facing the mob. Still stunned if Ogre.
Some of the time, if you're not casting, you'll get kicked. Not stunned either way.
Some of the time, if you are casting, melee push interrupts your cast anyway.
Some of the time, bash misses. Not stunned either way.
And finally, the vast majority of the time, 2 seconds of stun doesn't make the difference between life and death.

So yes, it can be helpful in group situations, but would I trade that rare situation for additional hp every. waking. tick. Well, I did.

[Furniture]

Its a tough choice, really depends on your style of play. Being an ogre will save your life at times, as stated above there will no doubt be many situations where you get aggro and desperately need to get a spell off.

However the troll regen will be nice as it can give you some extra mana over time, but not that much.

At level 24 as a troll, when you get canni, it will take 5 tics (with the regen spell) to get enough hp for one cannibalize spell. In other words it will take 30 seconds of sitting to get enough hp for 1 canni spell

At level 24 as an ogre, when you get canni, it will take 7 tics (with the regen spell) to get enough hp for one canni spell, also means it will take 42 seconds of sitting to get enough hp for 1 canni spell.

This to me is not enough regen to merit it giving up the powerful ogre shaman who is perhaps one of the most powerful race/class combos in the game at end game here and throughout velious.

The benefits of the troll regen really shine in earlier levels, where you dont have that much hp to begin with

Its up to you how you want to play this out but imo the regeneration spell line is good enough to do what you need to do with cannibalize. You also will die less during the tough situations that will come up as mentioned above.

[Hailto]

With regards to regen vs. stun immunity; if you don't mind playing as a blob. It really depends on why you are playing the class, i play a shaman because i love the versatility and i would argue we are the most powerful class through velious in terms of soloing (challenged only by maybe an enchanter). Having said that, regen is more useful if you're in a full group where you are less likely to be taking hits unless you screw up and slow a mob too early or your monk brings a massive train. Stun immunity is infinitely more useful solo or in duo/trio situations however, which is where i think shaman really get to show their true power.

[Furniture]

btw, not to say that trolls arent a good choice, its a matter of preference and play style

If you want to have benefits of some extra mana while leveling up, go with troll.

If you want to have benefits of being very powerful end game, and want some insurance on when things get out of control and need to do some emergency casting than go with ogre.

Both are great picks

[Kope]

When it comes down to it

Min/maxing:

Solo/duo/trio:

Ogre

full group/raids:

Troll...hell even iksar come velious.

When everything's said and done you aren't going to lose groups based on your race. Play what you want and have fun on the server, it's a great experience.

[eqravenprince]

It sounds like you are decided on a Shaman. It is probably the more popular pick. As a level 41 Monk, I would personally rather have a Druid with me at all times. My guess is you are going to play more and level up faster than your girlfriend. A Druid can do this and still go back to powerlevel up a Monk. A Shaman isn't quite as good at powerleveling although still viable. You can go off to whatever zone as a Druid and port back to where your gf is when she logs on. Just something to think about on choosing.

[1203jjt]

Lots of good info on here guys...If everyone is as respectful in game when expressing their opinion as they have been in this thread, then this should be a truly enjoyable experience :)

[Droog007]

Ogres wearing chain armor look like a giant dirty wad of silly putty. Best reason to go Troll.
Barbarians are just too skinny and run like they have a 2x4 up their ass. Unless you like cross-dressing ... the females are OK.

[Ferok]

It sounds like you are decided on a Shaman. It is probably the more popular pick. As a level 41 Monk, I would personally rather have a Druid with me at all times. My guess is you are going to play more and level up faster than your girlfriend. A Druid can do this and still go back to powerlevel up a Monk. A Shaman isn't quite as good at powerleveling although still viable. You can go off to whatever zone as a Druid and port back to where your gf is when she logs on. Just something to think about on choosing.

This is actually terrific advice. Slow doesn't really enter into the equation until late 30's/early 40's as a mana efficient means of defense, and haste doesn't come available until 29?

Druid's DS would be just as functional at low levels for additional DPS, and snares are very handy in Dungeons.

I'd say a Druid is just as functional a Duo partner until 35 or 40 when the Shaman truely outpaces them. But the ability to power-level when your partner lags behind can't be understated.

[rsloans84]

Make a shaman and monk duo and ill make an alt twink monk and trio with u guys and lvl u up fast as long as u form your hours around mine that is PM me your ingame name and ill msg u ( i have higher lvl druid that can port u 2 around as well )

[Nirgon]

its not game breaking.

See you at Lodizal or the WW lesser dragons...

[rsloans84]

Btw i play 4-10ish eastern time

[webrunner5]

rsloans84 I hate to break this to you but this is more than a 6 month old thread before you posted. :eek:

[rsloans84]

Oh well shows where ive been ( in game ) lol anyhow the offer is still on the table for the OP

[Wudan]

troll is nice for the regen, but ogre is really top choice for the frontal stun immunity, because at high levels you will solo/farm stuff by tanking with torpor/slows and not being interrupted so easily while casting and doing this is a big plus

Just do not listen to this crap and play the race you like. I play Iksar and I can tank any mob ogre or troll can tank. Do I get stunned sometimes? Sure. Does it change anything? No. The mob will die anyway. Can you kill without JBB? This might surprise some min maxing whores, but yes....you actually can kill without spamming a clickie.

People are kinda obsessed with min maxing over here, just ignore it and play what you like. I will take occasional stun instead of looking like bag of shit anytime.

[webrunner5]

I have found on this game you get stunned less at higher levels than lower on most mobs anyways.

[LiQuid]

Rolling a troll shaman makes you worse than a druid. This is a fact.