Buff Level Restrictions 50+ Spells

[Telin]

Okay, hopefully nobody gets mad at me for pointing this out. I saw somebody having a Natureskin buff (level 57 druid spell) at a very low level. I believe there were level restrictions on all 50+ spells.

Any spell from level 49 and below could be cast on anyone regardless of level. However, level 50+ spells had restrictions. On live, I was only able to go as high as Skin Like Nature when I was buffing newbies. I have tried researching this and there seems to be some formula to it. Although they debate the exact formula. http://www.therunes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2741

There is no official information though. Some forums say it is taking the spells level, dividing it by 2, and adding 15 then rounding. So the Natureskin buff would require (57/2)+15= 43.5 or level 44.

[bizzum]

99.9% sure this was a post Luclin/PoP thing, gonna try and find info.

[Writ3r]

None of this sort of thing took place on live until after PoP release, not sure on exact time after/during PoP... so it wouldn't apply here ever

[Kender]

not sure about single cast versions but group versions not effecting lowbies wasn't nerfed till after PoP. Can't find any evidence that the single versions were patched to not be allowed on lowbies, so they probably shouldn't work now, but the group versions certainly should work

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2003-1.html

------------------------------
June 11, 2003
------------------------------

- Spell level limits now enforced - Some high level spells cannot be
cast on characters under a certain level. In the past a caster could
get around this level restriction when casting a group version of a
spell by targeting a higher level group member, and the spell would
take effect on the whole group, regardless of their level. That
loophole has been closed. We're sorry if you have grown accustomed to
the system working this way, but those level restrictions are important
to the integrity of lower level gameplay.

[Kender]

p.s. i remember PL my monk with my shaman in the velious era and i had to downgrade the stat buffs so they would stick on the monk when he was lower level (group versions weren't worth the mana for a 1 person PL)

[Telin]

I haven't found patch notes of this being implemented. It may have came with an expansion. I see patch notes regarding the removing of the loop people found casting group beneficial spells in 2003.

There was a forum that discussed this in 2004. One poster had a link to a sony forum of someone who was not happy when Kunark was released because he didn't like the buff restrictions.

Vowelumos
06-11-2004, 03:11 AM
Not sure how this was a bug it was only done this way for what 6 or seven months.

The level restrictions have been in since Kunarks release. The fact that group spells went around the limit was not known untill a bit later when people got into their mid to late 50s and group spells started being used.

I dug up the post below on Casters Realm. it is from May of 2000 and explains the thinking behind the level 39 limit on 51+ spells. (It is a moving limit as I mentioned in my previous post).

<font face='verdana' size='2pt'>Source: <a href=http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/039117.html><b>Everquest Gameplay Forum</b></a>.<br><br>
As I understand it, a level limit had been put into place for level 51 spells
and higher whereby you can't cast one of those spells on anyone who's lower in
level than level 39. Is this information correct?
<p>Let me say this first, I can see the reason/logic behind your decision in
implementing that level cap. However, I would like to point out how this cap can
be very unfair to a lot of players as the cap is implemented right now.
<p>This is mostly a grouping matter, btw. In my experience, at level 30, I was
able to group with a level 45 and get XP, but not with a level 46. As you,
yourself said before, Gordon, as you go higher up in level, the wider the level
range can be in a group for the lower levels to get XP grouping with a higher
level. In another word, level range in a group for XP purpose is based on a
curve and the higher you go, the larger the range. Base on that, by my
conservative estimate, a level 35 would be able to group with a level 51 and

-- They claim it was from May 2000, unfortunately these boards have long since been removed as sony now has a new forum website. So there's no way to go and verify.

[Nirgon]

Yeah couldn't put heroism on people below a certain level right when our clerics got it. Hadta ask them their level and give them reso.

HBond was the work around.

I think the group aego/KEI thing is what set off the alarms that it needed to be fixed asap.

[nilbog]

Further discussion here:

https://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76374

[Samrothstein]

Open and shut case here

[Nirgon]

So, where lies the uncertainty in getting this changed?

Sounds like group buffs should still work... which is a bug that I wouldn't add and I'd be on the fence with adding that. The single stuff definitely needs the change.

What kind of information are you looking for to make something like this happen?

[koros]

51+ spells never worked on people under a certain level. I think it was 45. The exception was group spells which worked well into PoP.

[nilbog]

So, where lies the uncertainty in getting this changed?

It would be work to change all of the spells, but very doable. It would be more work to revert changes.

What kind of information are you looking for to make something like this happen?Take a look through the class spells. Make sure there are no caveats to this rule (aside from group spells).

That would help a lot.

[Nirgon]

This one's straight forward. We have the patch notes for group spells being fixed and you the formula for level allowed per buff received.

[kanras]

Fixed, pending update.

[Nirgon]

Well holy shit Kanras, way to keep it classic dawg.

[Dullah]

What fix is pending?

There were no level restrictions on buffs in classic EQ(classic-velious). No proof provided here either.

[nilbog]

What fix is pending?

There were no level restrictions on buffs in classic EQ(classic-velious). No proof provided here either.

Yes, there were. It will be explanatory per use, but an example as a magician. The highest single target dmg shield possible was a 25 pt, level 49 spell. I couldn't cast a level 56 Cadeau of Flame on a level 1. I could, however, group with the level 1, and cast level 60 Aegis of Ro, with myself targeted.

[Dullah]

Yes, there were. It will be explanatory per use, but an example as a magician. The highest single target dmg shield possible was a 25 pt, level 49 spell. I couldn't cast a level 56 Cadeau of Flame on a level 1. I could, however, group with the level 1, and cast level 60 Aegis of Ro, with myself targeted.
I remember this too, but not in kunark.

------------------------------
September 30, 2001
------------------------------
Firiona Vie Server Feature List:

This is a new server, not a split server. Nor will there be any transfers to this server.

Characters will be wiped before the server goes Live.

This is a PvE (Player vs. Environment) server, NOT a PvP (Player vs. Player) server. In other words, it's a standard 'blue' server with the same rules and features regarding PvP as the vast majority of our servers. It is not one of the 'Zeks'.

Auction restricted to city zones: Qeynos, Surefall Glade, Highkeep, Freeport, Rivervale, Erudin, Halas, Neriak, Grobb, Oggok, Greater Faydark, Ak'Anon, Kaladim, Felwithe, Paineel, Cabilis, Kael and Thurgadin.

Beneficial buff spells will not work on characters 20 levels lower than the caster.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2001-2.html
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20011008.html

Thats all I can find on buff level restrictions in classic era, and it was limited to Firiona Vie server.

[Nirgon]

You know what I got on this one? I know for a fact this is true :P.

[SamwiseRed]

Yes, there were. It will be explanatory per use, but an example as a magician. The highest single target dmg shield possible was a 25 pt, level 49 spell. I couldn't cast a level 56 Cadeau of Flame on a level 1. I could, however, group with the level 1, and cast level 60 Aegis of Ro, with myself targeted.

this how it works on eqmac. you can use group buffs to ignore the level restriction of higher level buffs. its how lowbies get Nine there as well as other goodies.

[Nirgon]

^ correctamundo

[heartbrand]

I don't remember this going in till Luclin @ earliest and remember being able to get Kei before the nerf on a level 1.

[Dullah]

Theres no debating group buffs circumvented the level restriction on buffs, the question is when did that limit go in. I don't recall it during classic era. Nothing was better than being raid buffed on a low level pk...

[SamwiseRed]

well if it works on eqmac i imagine it worked past PoP

ah re-read what you said. i remember KEI getting nerfed too because it made low levels have unlimited mana. hmmm

[nilbog]

KEI is a group spell.. that's why it worked. In 2003, you could no longer bypass levels with group spells, and it ceased to work.

[SamwiseRed]

pras eqmac for staying classic

[koros]

For fucks sake. It went in WITH Kunark, for ALL level 51+ spells. They made an announcement and everything. ONLY group spells could bypass this. Thanks Nirgon for apparently being the only other person on these forums who has a decent memory.

[Nirgon]

For someone being nice to me for once...

http://www.hyperhighway.com/bilgehunter/index.htm

All kinds of goodies to read in there!

http://home.comcast.net/~dfj21/eqworld1.html

^ nother good one

There's some rare nameds that you content heads will like that I never even saw before..

[Dullah]

For fucks sake. It went in WITH Kunark, for ALL level 51+ spells. They made an announcement and everything. ONLY group spells could bypass this. Thanks Nirgon for apparently being the only other person on these forums who has a decent memory.

Well gee whiz, that settles it then.

[koros]

Nirgon, we've generally agreed on most classic mechanics, save for a few, I.E. slate being super MR and necros being able to dispell their heal over time recourse.

[Nirgon]

Had botb RZ necro champ post about necro heal. Found stuff on 1999 era Everlore talking about the guards in North Freeport (like other high level guards he says) being extremely MR resistant. I'll post it if there's interest in fixins.

Social aggro on Slate was bonkers.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You know what I got on this one? I know for a fact this is true :P.

Kunark release date: April 24, 2000
Velious release date: December 5, 2000

http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-2049.html

Tekkin51druid 10-25-2000, 08:27 AM
I agree with everyone on all their posts, they are all great places to plvl. I just thought i would add that another great place to plvl from about 16-22 is in DC at the gobbie camp. EZ mobs, and its usually not that crowded, plus u have a chance at bilge spawning (PKT *Drool*). The gobbies spawn pretty fast, and the chloro can usually out do their dmg (meaning u heal faster than they deal dmg) although lvl 19 heal spell is necessary. If u r 54 and plvling them then it's even better cuz u got regrowth hehe. Then a great place from lvl's 22-30 is at the sarnaks in LOIO. Goto the castle, and go in like just past the entrance. It's never heaavily camped, and the mobs give xp up thru 31 if not higher. From then on, it gets harder to plvl and gets slower, so it's not as fun. If you want to grp from 31+ i suggest CT til 35, then Lower GUK spider room til 41, and then guk/solb/DL until 50. Karnors from 51-55, and depending on what class u r u can go solo in tim deep til 60. O btw, if u r a solo class u can solo from 40-54 with great xp off of the spirocs in tim deep. Hope this all helps.

Tekkin Underpaw lvl 51 Druid Essence of Immortality
Aulien Azzkika lvl 23 Warrior Divine
Sinamyan al'Thor lvl 12 Necromancer

[YendorLootmonkey]

http://www.monkly-business.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-8643.html

Note: Regrowth is level 52 for Shaman...

Xenix1 08-30-2001, 04:40 PM
the Drakkal wolves are *awesome* exp from 38 to 42 or so...after that i went to ot and solod there til 45...with the wolves you id kite em and you have 0 downtime, mend every 6 minutes and you will usually be close to full, if your ID isnt too high then go to the fall and see if some shammy will regrowth ya....also, ive found that if you train a giant onto three coldain wolves (3 at a time, not 1, then another, then another) they will get him down low, almost to runnin but we will kill them, so if you have almsot full hps and you wanna try it, these sucker coldain wolves will get it down to 25% life or so


Xenix - 45 Monk

Taediar - 52 Heretic

Xegony

[Ele]

What are you trying to propose Yendor?

That the buff restriction never existed (until 2003) or that not enough links have been posted to satisfy you?

[YendorLootmonkey]

What are you trying to propose Yendor?

That the buff restriction never existed (until 2003) or that not enough links have been posted to satisfy you?

No links posted have verified that this condition existed in Kunark... there is stuff from 2001+.

However, I just found this, which proves this restriction existed in Kunark contrary to my above links, so I lose. :(

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/alt.games.everquest/Mk49TaHVFnY/discussion

[Ele]

July 11, 2000
http://eqclerics.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6342

Was just on a run to res a 42nd Paladin from the Shin Lord room. Was fun, I equipped a FBSS, the Cadecius, and loaded Earthquake

Anyway, ressurected him, and he had a 38th level Necro friend.

Turns out that although Heroism can't be cast on characters below 41st level, that restriction doesn't apply to their pets.

Actually, I believe the level limit is 39 for post-50 Kunark spells.

It works with Heroic Bond. Just select yourself and cast. If you select the 38 pally you will get the normal too low message.

[SirAlvarex]

There's a chance that some spells didn't follow the typical formula for deciding a level limit. Regen spells might be one of those.

But to me it appears that 95% of the spells were fairly normalized with the formula given earlier in this thread.