Hey guys, is Enchanter worth leveling when Velious comes out?

[Wonka11]

With the immunities on monsters (dragons, giantkind) how useful are Enchanters, both solo and grouped in this expansion?

I realize the expansion is far out, but humor me on the subject.

Group wise, they have their haste and a decent slow, but with groups having to take another off tank to compensate for monsters that are unmezzable, what are we really looking at here?

Solo wise I understand this hurts too, but we still have solo charming which can help.

[diplo]

shammys will dominate over enc.

[Wonka11]

Well, shamans are a whole different beast. I mean soloing Western Dragons is great and all but, their haste still isn't as good as an echanter's. But like I said, whole different beast. We're just talking chanter here.

As for soloing though, I mean, Velious dungeons don't really have a lot of good loot that doesn't drop off bosses last I remember. I remember even when velious was released, enchanters were still soloing seb heavily for cash items, correct?

[Splorf22]

shammys will dominate over enc.

Please!

[diplo]

Please!

you even told me yourself:D

[Splorf22]

shaman with puppet strings are basically enchanters with more hp and torpor already :(

[pasi]

Here's the thing to keep in mind - Velious on Project 1999 will not be a grouping expansion like it was on live. Most serious raiders didn't hit 60 until mid-late Velious on live. Whereas on P99, even semi-casual players are 60 since we should be well into SoL based on the timeline.

The traditional groups clearing a PH model is very limited in Velious as most of the lucrative groupable 60s stuff is on a long spawn (not the PH system). This includes either groupable raid mobs and groupable quest mobs. So if you're leveling still, basically add Velketor's to the Kunark areas to group up as Velketor's (and Kael Arena) is going to be the only zone where you will frequently find level 60 traditional tank/healer/dps type groups.

Anyhow:

Iceclad - Pass-over zone.
TOFS - Solo cash-farming zone.
EW - Pass-over leveling zone.
Wakening Lands - Another pass-over zone.
Cobalt Scar - Pass-over leveling zone.
GD - Pass-over faction farming zone.

Velketors - the new Karnor's Castle. Easily accessible, decent drops, armor gems, and good exp. I would think Enchanters would be able to solo anything that isn't physically in the castle or named Lord Bob/Broodmother. Both Solo/Group zone.

Kael - the Arena is going to be the focal grouping point for 60s, imo. Enchanters do alright in Kael if you feel like charming. Giants aren't mezzable, but you can charm them. Drakkel Wolfs make great pets at 60. Group zone.

Skyshrine - You can solo farm Wyverns and Cubes for alright money. Solo zone.

Sirens Grotto - Fellspine and Shimmering Sea Spirit are very lucrative solo/duo camps. I don't really see many groups coming here with the whole water and cleric mobs chealing through walls everywhere.

Western Wastes - Enchanters with a bracer of the hidden can solo some of the lower end dragons for necklaces and dragon heads. Way more practical to duo here though.

Icewell - Leave and never come back. Dwarves are magic immune. Sure, there's stuff in the basement, but you're only down there to kill Dain. I guess if you really wanted, you could pacify-resist pull a mob up.

ToV - Raid zone until people out-gear it enough.

ST - If you actually get key'd, you're a buff/tash bot. At least NToV has the potential for level 46 pets.

DN - Chetari are decent cash for soloing/duoing. You can even get your friends DT'd on the way to them.

PoG - Enchanters are vital here for both grouping and raiding.

PoM - IMO, the top zone for anyone who isn't a melee. Cards are one of the ways to gear up for non-raiders. The PoM armor is incredible, flowers are useful, and things like cleric barbarian illusion masks are highly coveted. The zone is paradise for solo/duo necros/enchanters/shaman.

TLDR: If you like traditional grouping or raiding - enchanter isn't going to be very fun in Velious. If you enjoy soloing/duoing - the class doesn't fall much from its Kunark levels.

[TheFishyOne]

Keep in mind too, that only chanters can distribute Crack, or C2, or whatever you happen to call it. Not ALL giants and dragons are unmezzable either, but they an still be rooted if they are, or charmed, as was already mentioned. Chanter haste also reigns supreme, and we have an AoE slow, something that even Shammies don't. Fact is, chanters will always be vbery desireble; that's why the Holy Trinity consists of a Warrior, a Cleric, and an Enchanter.

[Wonka11]

Thank you so much for the indepth responses. The last two, specifically Pasi's were phenomenal and really helped out. Seriously, thank you, I appreciate the insight greatly.

[isoka]

and we have an AoE slow, something that even Shammies don't.

Hummm, care to give the name of that spell please ? Didn't know encs were able to AoE slow, but am new to the class, so might just lack knowledge.
However, shammies do have an AoE slow named Tigir's insect (level 58 one, 50% slow up to 4 targets).

Besides that, encs are really good and bring a lot to the table. If you get an enchanter knowing his class, you can't go wrong. It can bring a lot of dps through charming, Crowd Control, aswell as good support (haste / slow).

[Malrubius]

Shammies are awesome, but Charm > all.
Charm+mez even greater than that.
Charm+mez+slow...ehh, you get the idea.

[TheFishyOne]

Hummm, care to give the name of that spell please ?).

Yeah, you're right. Bit of a stupid mistake to make, being that I have a shaman. Not real sure what I was thinking there...

/headsmack.

That said, everything else I said still stands. You'd be hard pressed to find a Rogue who prefers Shaman haste, or a raiding Cleric who is ambivalent about the presence of Clarity, and even in Velious, you can still mezz to a degree (or root if you can't). Like I said, there's a reason why chanters are part of the holy trinity of EQ.

[Vayder]

and things like cleric barbarian illusion masks are highly coveted.

Has there been any word as to whether this will be in on p99? The recipe was broken on live until it was fixed recently.

[Splorf22]

Enchanter buffs are key in classic, no question there. Basically on raids in Velious enchanters are going to buff and do little else (Giants/Dragons will be mez immune, dwarves MR immune period), except potentially charming some giants in Kael (chance of Loraen going Giant Faction: 0. I'm definitely going to try that out). If buffing is your thing, you'll love Velious.

What Pasi is saying is that there are still a decent number of farming targets in Velious if farming is your game. What chars do you play ingame Pasi?

Anyway I think Velious is the first expansion where melee really come into their own and equal and then surpass casters in ability. In classic melee are much weaker than casters; in Kunark things are pretty balanced with a slight edge to casters, and finally Velious melee will be stronger. For example with Aegolism and Giant/Dragon quest armor we'll see raid buffed Warriors with 6-7k HP and 1300-1400 AC and wielding stuff like 15/20 Blade of Carnage, 14/19 Jaelen's Katana, and 13/18 Sceptre of Destruction. With ratios like that they are probably good for 80 dps. Monks will be even sicker with 14/18 Wurmscale Fistwraps or 16/19 Gharn's Rock of Smashing of Vulak as well as hitting the AC cap with the ALL/ALL NToV gear. Those numbers crush mage/necro pets and aren't that far off charmed pets (L50: 9000HP, 110 dps or so).

[pasi]

I play a bunch of servers, but lately mostly P99 and EZ since Morell Thule was taken down. Mauricewhite is my main on P99, Jewishponymaker and a bunch of others on EZ.

[Nirgon]

You all greatly underestimate how many are likely to return for Velious.

Also, so many mobs that were magic immune on classic probs won't be here.

Charm/enchanters in general are still way OP here.

[pasi]

IMO, that's largely to do with the player base being a lot more knowledgeable than live. I don't think the majority of enchanters on live knew how powerful charm + slow was until dire charm. Whereas here, people know how to handle charm breaks (lots of roots, blurs for root aggro, aoe stun + aoe mez, etc). More importantly - CRing isn't nearly a factor since most are 60 and dont care about exp loss(unlike live), people have WC caps, and people know the zones enough to CR themselves.

Now, if you mean the charm code is different here than live - it might be, but good luck getting that correct.

It's kind of like how overpowered pets are in classic, but how raids generally told casters to not use their pet for fear of them wiping the raid somehow. On VZTZ, we (Heresy) were able to kill a mob on par with AoW as level 50s via abusing pets (granted pets there were level 45 rather than 40 like live, but otherwise had the same stats). Obviously, pet spamming is the reason this server does not have nor want classic pet aggro mechanics.

If anything, the mechanics here hinder enchanters more than live (see Splorf's post). Not to mention charm aggro is busted like pet aggro here.

[Splorf22]

I don't think its possible to emphasize enough how much the WC cap enables charm soloing. I honestly think charm is weaker here than on Live; the difference is that a) people have more practice and b) the WC cap can save you from certain death. I can't count the number of times I have recharged mine; I'm guessing over 100. A good enchanter IMO can only do HS South solo for maybe 3 or 4 hours before having to cap out due to a particularly obnoxious runin with the RNG, whether its a lull crit or 3-4 0-tick charms in a a row, or whatever. In other words, no enchanter can really solo farm South without the cap.