Initial Aggro/Hatelist Missle Lock

[Treats]

Posted this in a different thread awhile ago but not in the bug section.

Mobs passing by other players and they are not added to the hate list.

I'm sure this must be really difficult to code or it would of already be done. It is kind of similar to Pulling with invisible where a mob will not pass his hate list to other mobs.

Possibly have a check every tick (faster?) where it would check for PC's in range and add them? I dunno.

It kinda needs to be addressed before Velious because it will simply make the RAMPAGE list way too easy to manipulate.

As it is currently there isn't really any danger when another person's mob/train passes by you. The only thing you need to do is simply move away before the player zones/feigns/etc.

When this is added you will no longer have people kiting NPCs and creating clusterfucks in zones where they are trying to kill a Raid NPC the fastest. On live this tactic was hardly ever used. The reason was not because the players did not think of it. It was because training shit around other raids was called a Zone disruption.

Every single player that got into the aggro range of an NPC that was being trained around was added to the hate list on every single mob in the train. Someone on that list sits and you get trained. Someone on that list gets healed, you get steamrolled. Someone happens to get closer to the mobs than the kiter, trained again. This tactic is complete garbage and should be a Zone Disruption when it occurs because it is essentially a death sentence for most of the people in the zone when this is fixed.

There is an exception to this to however but it only occurs at the lower levels. When a mob is under a certain level it will only attack the person that is the closest in range. It seems like there is a simple Hate List that has no accumulation of Hate regardless of how much damage you do/sit/nuke/etc. What level this Magic Number occurs, I am not sure. 10? 15? 20? 25?

[Treats]

Bump, need fix for this ;(

[YendorLootmonkey]

I knew I couldn't have been the only one who remembered aggro to work like this. I know for a fact when someone passed by you with a train, even if you were just standing there, you ran to the zone or camped out because that train would beeline to you next, just based on prox aggro.

[Treats]

Bump

[Yibz]

Treats is absolutely right on this issue. Look no further than the exploits of Fansy the famous bard for proof.

http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php

Aggro'd NPC should be able to proximity aggro other PCs.

[SirAlvarex]

They did a good job of adding the basics of this mechanic back in october, but I think it should be fully implemented.

Right now "social aggro" works in a way that once a person has aggro, anyone who damages one mob in the train gets aggro on all of them. This allowed Bards to start "charm kiting". But this aggro needs to be "assumed" at all times, not just when a person does a hostile action. If a mob gets within aggro range of you, you're added to the hate list, irregardless of any action performed by you.

I do not know however if you need to be sitting...I remember it as just being in proximity, but it's been too long. And Fansy is the best example of this in action.

[Zapatos]

There's also the mechanic that, in the instance where 2 or more players have ONLY proximity aggro, the mob will attack the player CLOSEST to itself. This is what allowed fansy to steam roll everyone he ran by.

This mechanic is still easily seen on the eqmac server, where the player Lron gained 'legend status' for his constant training.

[Yibz]

Bump, need fix for this ;(

[Bamzal Sherbet]

lets Lron this place~!

[Captivate]

Treats is absolutely right on this issue. Look no further than the exploits of Fansy the famous bard for proof.

http://www.notaddicted.com/fansythefamous.php

Aggro'd NPC should be able to proximity aggro other PCs.

[Thu Jul 05 00:23:55 2001] Nizzar shouts, 'good job pansy'


^ lol wtf

[Furniture]

This is not hard to code, and there have been several threads addressing this issue.

I think there is just a lack of 100% accurate information confirming this is how aggro worked (which it was).

I believe the main issue the devs here have were trying to get this imformation accurately for undead, as undead would always aggro the closest players in proximity, rather then just add them to the bottom of the hate list as normal mobs would have done in proximity

[Yibz]

Proof PCs should be added to the hate list by simply being in proximity aggro range without attacking the mob or assisting PCs fighting the mob.



------------------------------
January 31, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

--- We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own
hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill
(possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue
that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate
lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done
anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its
foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the
hate list implemented with Velious.

[Nizzarr]

yup, this should be in. mobs should add players to their aggro list solely by them being in their aggro range.

If this isnt in by velious, the rampage drakes will be way too easy to deal with.

I remember anyone sitting on those pulls would get instantly gibbed. They were great afk checks.

"STAND UP, FLURRY DRAKES INC"

[Nirgon]

Anyone sitting when a raid mob is pulled into the camp needs to die.

I did a late night Vindi raid very blurry eyed on pal's SK and got absolutely blown up by him when he came into camp.

This also has ramifications of how easy it is to camp out trains and when its safe to res people in and where.

It also makes Sirran MUCH more interesting when he gets pissed off :).

"Everyone camp" truly becomes everyone has to camp and wait for the high sign from the FD'ers.

[Yibz]

Sirran is non KOS so it wouldn't affect him, but I digress. This is a serious problem that totally changes the way the game should be played. Trains should actually be dangerous. Swarm kiting should work. You shouldn't be able to aggro mobs to have the rest of your group run through safely. Please fix this in the name of classic EQ.

[Vega]

Sirran is non KOS so it wouldn't affect him, but I digress. This is a serious problem that totally changes the way the game should be played. Trains should actually be dangerous. Swarm kiting should work. You shouldn't be able to aggro mobs to have the rest of your group run through safely. Please fix this in the name of classic EQ.

My turn to digress: Swarm kiting does work on p99.

[Yibz]

My turn to digress: Swarm kiting does work on p99.

You either didn't play live or don't know what you're talking about. It's nothing like it should be. Regardless, stop shitting up this thread.

[Nirgon]

If you piss off Sirran, he gets very KOS.

But I digress.

[Yibz]

If you piss off Sirran, he gets very KOS.

But I digress.

Hmmm... I think that may be a separate issue that needs to be fixed as well then. I don't think he currently goes KOS to everyone when provoked. Either that or it's just impossible to tell because of the broken proximity aggro.

I'll check it out next time I'm in sky.

[oldschooltrader]

Hmmm... I think that may be a separate issue that needs to be fixed as well then. I don't think he currently goes KOS to everyone when provoked. Either that or it's just impossible to tell because of the broken proximity aggro.

I'll check it out next time I'm in sky.

Right if prox aggro worked right people would be on that mobs hate list which triggered anger from Sirran just by being near that mob. If you are on the mobs hate list that made Sirran angry then Sirran is angry at you.

[Yibz]

Could we get a response on this, nilbog? Should we be looking for more info on how prox aggro should work? Seems pretty clear that you should be added to the hate list if you're in prox aggro range of an engaged mob.

[Sundawg]

Proof PCs should be added to the hate list by simply being in proximity aggro range without attacking the mob or assisting PCs fighting the mob.

------------------------------
January 31, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

--- We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own
hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill
(possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue
that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate
lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done
anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its
foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the
hate list implemented with Velious.


This is how it is now on p99 correct? I've seen rogues "train" other players with their evade. Players just standing there or being pvp'ed by said rogue.

As for prox agro in general, some recent research and work has went into it. It does not work exactly as stated in this thread, but similar.

I've yet to see proof that mobs, that are agro on a PC, will add other innocent bystanders to their hate list that have not triggered that mobs specific close range proximity agro check. (if that particular NPC even has proximity, or as some say "undead" agro checks) edit: without a temporary hate clearing skill like FD, Evade, DA, etc being used that is.

[heartbrand]

Prox aggro doesn't exist on red99, if someone ran a train by you on live it would come back for you when it was done, here unless you do something to get on the aggro table you can hug the mob that's on someone and never have aggro

[Sundawg]

Prox aggro doesn't exist on red99, if someone ran a train by you on live it would come back for you when it was done, here unless you do something to get on the aggro table you can hug the mob that's on someone and never have aggro

If you run a specter or sandgiant train past someone on EQmac, unless you ran it over them and in which case the mobs would stop and start attacking that person, its not coming back to that player after you zone the train.

I.E. you are not added to the hate list of said mobs unless you trigger its close range prox/undead agro which manifests itself in an instant attack by said npcs.

You can even pause your train and tank it in front of the innocent bystanders, its not coming back to find them unless they themselves got closer to the NPCs then you did, triggering the proximity/undead agro "ability".

I'm aware that its not working atm on p99, the issue with rogues and evade is another story/situation.

Does the above sound right to everyone?

[heartbrand]

I always recall if a train in guk for example ran by you having to camp out because it meant you were added to the list anyone else?

[Sundawg]

My tests show that the undead frogs in lguk do not even have what we are calling "undead/prox" agro.

I could sit down a low level PC between the legs of an undead frog (that was already agro on another PC) then go train the frog out and it never came back for the PC that had a nice long sit down on its model.

Old EQ was filled with a lot of mystery and people created taboos and rituals while playing :)

"Camping out" after anything trained past you while you sat there watching might be another one.

But we want to get it right, so anyone with conflicting evidence please stand up.

[heartbrand]

I got suspended multiple times for training people on deadside in guk with my gnome wizard

[Brocode]

the only case i saw proximity aggro on blue, was when i was low life and a train passing by instantly aggros.

[Yibz]

Hi Sundawg,

My posting of those patch notes wasn't to highlight rogue evade problems but rather to show that it should be possible to be added to of an engaged mob simply by being in proximity range. You say that is enabled on this server but it doesn't appear to work unless you are only talking about the specific undead mobs that were previously adjusted. What I am referring to is a separate issue and should apply to all mobs not just undead. An engaged mob should add any KOS PC or NPC to its hate list if they are within prox aggro range. It shouldn't necessarily snap aggro unless the added person is doing something that makes them higher on the hate list than the engaged person (sitting, attacking an ally, etc).

[Sundawg]

Regarding rogues: Have a rogue friend of yours (on p99) train you with a mob and have him evade by you, the mob will jump on you. But that has nothing to do with true "undead/prox" agro and more to do with rogue evade working like a mini/temporary FD here. I brought that up just to point out that it seems to be working as intended atm on p99, and inline with those patch notes.

But back to the topic:

So far "my" testing shows undead agro to work like I've described a few posts up, on EQmac that is.

See what I am saying now?

[Yibz]

Yeah I see what you're saying about undead aggro and rogue evade but I'm saying the global aggro mechanics are not like they were on live.

Fansy was able to wreck hundreds of people not because he was using undead mobs or evading on top of people but because sand giants would prox aggro others even though they were engaged and being trained.

[Sundawg]

Yeah I see what you're saying about undead aggro and rogue evade but I'm saying the global aggro mechanics are not like they were on live.

Fansy was able to wreck hundreds of people not because he was using undead mobs or evading on top of people but because sand giants would prox aggro others even though they were engaged and being trained.


Yes, I agree Yibiz, I was just pointing out more details on how that happens.

[Yibz]

If you ran a train by a group, everyone sitting would be attacked immediately. If you were not sitting you would still be added to the hate list and if the trainer zoned it you can bet your ass they'd be after you next.

[nilbog]

If you were not sitting you would still be added to the hate list and if the trainer zoned it you can bet your ass they'd be after you next.

Do you have any idea when this mechanic was removed from eqlive? It does not exist on eqmac which is planes of power era. We need as many specifics as possible before making this particular change.

[heartbrand]

I understand my "recollection" is not an allakhazam post or some shit circa 2000, but I'm telling you, I @ the ripe age of 14 or w/e I was then got suspended multiple times for training people by simply running the mobs past them and zoning. And yes, sitting ppl always got insta gibbed

[nilbog]

I understand my "recollection" is not an allakhazam post or some shit circa 2000, but I'm telling you, I @ the ripe age of 14 or w/e I was then got suspended multiple times for training people by simply running the mobs past them and zoning. And yes, sitting ppl always got insta gibbed

Yeah, but we're talking about guk and you need to be specific. Think about it.. if you run kos npcs past people, to a zoneline. Those npcs walking back will encounter the same people, most likely. If you train people at a zoneline, they obviously will pick up proximity aggro as well.

In an area such as Oasis, imagine you did the same thing for a sand giant. If you zoned it at the far northwest zone line after running past someone at the docks. If that giant didn't naturally path back towards the docks, would it remember those poor individuals from all the way across the zone, or would it head back to its normal path?

[heartbrand]

It would remember the poor individual is how I recall it. /shrug

[Yibz]

Do you have any idea when this mechanic was removed from eqlive? It does not exist on eqmac which is planes of power era. We need as many specifics as possible before making this particular change.

On the Fansy website he has logs dated July 2001 - he is warned that he will be banned if he continued to disrupt zones by training. That would suffice to say it should be this way through the majority if not entirety of Velious. And yes, the giants in oasis would B line to those that had been prox aggrod after Fansy zoned.

[Mon Jul 09 08:10:42 2001] Djembe tells you, 'Hello this is GM Djembe do you have a moment?'
[Mon Jul 09 08:10:47 2001] * GM-Admin *[60 Warlock] Djembe (Erudite) ZONE: oasis
[Mon Jul 09 08:10:52 2001] You told Djembe, 'sure'
[Mon Jul 09 08:11:03 2001] Djembe tells you, 'we need to talk about your zone disruption you are causing.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:11:18 2001] You told Djembe, 'Alright. I have petitioned several times to ask if it was a problem'
[Mon Jul 09 08:11:32 2001] You told Djembe, 'One guide said it was perfectly legal, so I continued.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:12:15 2001] Djembe tells you, 'I would say it is legal if you were of a level where others could take recourse on you. But at level 5 they cannot do that now can they?'
[Mon Jul 09 08:12:49 2001] You told Djembe, 'Very true, which is why I chose this level.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:13:15 2001] You told Djembe, 'There were no rules against it when I began. Is one being created?' [Mon Jul 09 08:13:38 2001] Djembe tells you, 'there has always been a rule about zone disruptions.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:15:07 2001] Djembe tells you, 'at some point you will get board of this little trick, and possibly venture on up in levels... what do you think you are doing to your reputation at this time?'
[Mon Jul 09 08:15:30 2001] You told Djembe, 'I don't care what the bad guys think of me.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:16:26 2001] You told Djembe, 'Can you repeat to me the rule of zone disruption? I'm having trouble finding it on the everquest.com site'
[Mon Jul 09 08:17:35 2001] Djembe tells you, 'let me pull the reference'
[Mon Jul 09 08:20:13 2001] Djembe tells you, 'rule 13 applies because the Play Nice Policy is removed due to players being able to resolve this conflict through combat. You have nullified the rule in that they cannot take recourse.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:20:38 2001] You told Djembe, 'Alright. Would this apply to a team member training his own team?' [Mon Jul 09 08:21:00 2001] Djembe tells you, 'I am more concerned wiith zone disruptions'
[Mon Jul 09 08:16:03 2001] Djembe tells you, 'I would say you are not breaking rules other than causing a zone disruption. It is warnable, but not terminable' (My account is about 1 warning away from being banned, so I dropped it.)
[Mon Jul 09 08:21:25 2001] You told Djembe, 'Djembe, since you want me to stop, I will.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:22:01 2001] Djembe tells you, 'ok, great I am glad we had this talk.'
[Mon Jul 09 08:22:47 2001] Djembe tells you, 'be safe and stay well'

[Num1RecommendedByDentists]

literally anyone who played everquest in classic, kunark, and/or velious would agree with this here

[Yibz]

Bump! Let's all get classic.

[Heebo]

Bump. Code was added that allowed rooted mobs to add bystanders to their aggro list.

This was a step in the right direction but this should occur with all mobs, regardless of being rooted or not.

Mobs aggroing on sitting players was added as well but it doesn't fix the actual issue at hand. ALL KOS PLAYERS should be added to the aggro list if they are in aggro range. The mob should then prioritize attacking the sitting players unless significant hate had been generated.

This is also the underlying issue with swarm kiting and why trains are MUCH less dangerous on p99 than they were on live.

[Daldaen]

Uhh I'm skeptical of what you're proposing.

Sitting - Yes
If you're fighting a mob social with the train - Yes

A random dude standing near a train that runs over him with absolutely no action made against it - No

I don't believe in that last circumstance you should be added to the hatelist on the train. You had to be sitting or be fighting a mob nearby to get added I believe.

[Nibblewitz]

Is there any definitive proof of classic "pure-proximity" aggro? Currently on p99, it seems that the only way to get proximity aggro on an engaged mob is to get the closest to it while rooted, casting a spell within its proximity, or sitting down within its proximity.

[Heebo]

Uhh I'm skeptical of what you're proposing.

Sitting - Yes
If you're fighting a mob social with the train - Yes

A random dude standing near a train that runs over him with absolutely no action made against it - No

I don't believe in that last circumstance you should be added to the hatelist on the train. You had to be sitting or be fighting a mob nearby to get added I believe.
Wrong. If the person training had no further hate into a mob than proximity aggro and ran it next to you, you were getting whacked due to being within melee range. That's how it always worked. People training didn't only kill sitting people.

Furthermore, this is the crux of swarm kiting. If you charmed a mob in a train and sent it after the pack, the entire pack would assist because of

1. Instant proximity aggro and
2. The action of attacking the mob generating more hate than the bard has (which is only proximity aggro)

[Heebo]

Is there any definitive proof of classic "pure-proximity" aggro? Currently on p99, it seems that the only way to get proximity aggro on an engaged mob is to get the closest to it while rooted, casting a spell within its proximity, or sitting down within its proximity.

Anybody who played live could tell you that you couldn't run straight through a train of mobs and get by Scott free because they were aggrod. If the trainer had more hate than proximity aggro, they would continue chasing him but if he zoned out or FDd, you could bet on them returning.

[Daldaen]

No, you misunderstand swarm kiting.

The reason swarm kiting exists is because of the 2nd situation I cite. Fighting a mob on the train's faction, near the train. That is why swarm kiting works.

When you charmed a mob, and sent it on the swarm, the swarm didn't care about your pet running at them, nor did the swarm immediately turn on your pet after it is charmed. The swarm ONLY turned on your pet once it aggros and attacks a mob in the train. Once it attacks a single mob, because it is near the others and fighting a mob on the same faction as the train, the rest of the train turns and fights your pet. That's how proxy aggro worked. That can certainly give the illusion of that you get on aggro from a train from just standing there, but the reality is you only got on aggro because you were fighting a mob within the assist radius of the train.

Your pet is not on the aggro list of the swarm until it attacks one of them. Under what you are suggesting it would be on aggro from the swarm.

Log on live right now that's exactly how it works and that's exactly how it used to work and should work here.

That is completely different from being put on aggro list for just standing there though.

[Daldaen]

What you're suggesting isn't classic. And there are far more reasons than this that VP training is what it is.

Running through a mob should not put you on its aggro list. It is otherwise occupied and should not add you. Infact the rooted thing I'm also skeptical about, but this kind of stuff is nearly impossible to gather evidence on.

I can tell you for a fact, this was not in play on Al'Kabor a year ago which had the closest thing to classic aggro code we could've had. Running through many swarms and shaker page pulls with a toon I never once picked up aggro on it if the pull failed. They reset as you would expect.

[Heebo]

I don't know about live now and I don't care. That's how it worked on live through POP. Read the other posts in this thread. I don't understand how you could even question it.

If you spent any time training people you would know that you didn't have to wait for them to sit or attack a mob.

If you spent any time swarm kite Pling, you would know that your group had to be OUT OF AGGRO RANGE or they'd get wrecked. I couldn't count the times somebody would run in to try and loot a corpse and get steamrolled.

[Heebo]

What you're suggesting isn't classic. And there are far more reasons than this that VP training is what it is.

Running through a mob should not put you on its aggro list. It is otherwise occupied and should not add you. Infact the rooted thing I'm also skeptical about, but this kind of stuff is nearly impossible to gather evidence on.

I can tell you for a fact, this was not in play on Al'Kabor a year ago which had the closest thing to classic aggro code we could've had. Running through many swarms and shaker page pulls with a toon I never once picked up aggro on it if the pull failed. They reset as you would expect.
What do you mean that you didn't pick up aggro if the pull failed?

[Heebo]

------------------------------
January 31, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

--- We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own
hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill
(possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue
that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate
lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done
anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its
foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the
hate list implemented with Velious.

I mean, this literally shows you that being in proximity but doing no offensive action to a KOS mob would put you on the hate list.

[Daldaen]

No, that's talking about face aggro. Not standing there when a mob is brought past you and arbitrarily being added to the hatelist.

By a failed pull I mean when the players doing the pull died, the pull reset, unaggroed, even though I'd run through it and not touched the mobs.

I did my fair share of swarm kiting. Leveled a bard / Druid to 65 on Mac, and bards to 75/95 and Druid to 100 on live. A large amount done through swarm or reverse kiting. Having just face aggro on the mobs didn't cause them to either turn or add to the aggro list anyone the mobs ran past, UNLESS, again, they were fighting a mob nearby, and gained proxy on the train.

[Heebo]

No, that's talking about face aggro. Not standing there when a mob is brought past you and arbitrarily being added to the hatelist.

By a failed pull I mean when the players doing the pull died, the pull reset, unaggroed, even though I'd run through it and not touched the mobs.

I did my fair share of swarm kiting. Leveled a bard / Druid to 65 on Mac, and bards to 75/95 and Druid to 100 on live. A large amount done through swarm or reverse kiting. Having just face aggro on the mobs didn't cause them to either turn or add to the aggro list anyone the mobs ran past, UNLESS, again, they were fighting a mob nearby, and gained proxy on the train.
Nilbog already confirmed in this thread that the mechanics had changed by eqmac.

You remember running directly through trains in order to navigate a zone without getting aggro and needing to camp out on live?

You can't remember ever being trained or training someone unless they were sitting/ fighting a mob?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Any other input from others?

[maestrom]

Nilbog already confirmed in this thread that the mechanics had changed by eqmac.

You remember running directly through trains in order to navigate a zone without getting aggro and needing to camp out on live?

You can't remember ever being trained or training someone unless they were sitting/ fighting a mob?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Any other input from others?

I certainly "felt" like it worked the way you describe. Any proximity to a KOS mob would add you to the mobs hate list.

But this couldn't have been how it worked because of plane of fear.

I went on about half a dozen fear raids pre-velious (and only one raid after, during POP on a pre-broken raid). The breaks always worked the same. You zoned in, and if you had aggro, you stood there and died. If you didn't have aggro, you moved to the west wall. This lead to a pile of corpses and 4-5 mobs sitting at the portal that everyone just ran right past to the west wall. Those mobs at the portal never came after the raid, even after they killed all of the zone-inners unless someone did something to them and trained us.

[Wiley]

No, you misunderstand swarm kiting.

The reason swarm kiting exists is because of the 2nd situation I cite. Fighting a mob on the train's faction, near the train. That is why swarm kiting works.

Disagree completely, Heebo nailed it.

Mob faction, agro bands and what not didn't matter pre-PoP. All you needed to do was charm 1 of them, quickly get out of agro range, and pet would get ganged up on. Didn't even need to swap targets and have it attack.

[Wiley]

I certainly "felt" like it worked the way you describe. Any proximity to a KOS mob would add you to the mobs hate list.

It worked like that till Luclin at least, almost got several people killed when I was swarming and would be further from the pack then some poor chap meditating

[Rygar]

I certainly "felt" like it worked the way you describe. Any proximity to a KOS mob would add you to the mobs hate list.

But this couldn't have been how it worked because of plane of fear.

I went on about half a dozen fear raids pre-velious (and only one raid after, during POP on a pre-broken raid). The breaks always worked the same. You zoned in, and if you had aggro, you stood there and died. If you didn't have aggro, you moved to the west wall. This lead to a pile of corpses and 4-5 mobs sitting at the portal that everyone just ran right past to the west wall. Those mobs at the portal never came after the raid, even after they killed all of the zone-inners unless someone did something to them and trained us.

This statement confuses me, 4-5 mobs sitting at portal doing what? were they being trained around? Sounds like the people that 'got aggro' were in proximity range and stood and died to save the raid, people that didn't get agro weren't in proximity range or got out of range before a server tick or something.

This post was a year ago, but maybe you are still active.

In other news, I feel something quasi related to this thread from my live experience... do any casters remember sitting next to a mob during an engage? Not even raid just exp group, felt if a cleric sat to med when fighting an exp mob it would run over and thwap him so he stood up then back to tank. Casters had to get a fair distance back to sit. I feel like a cleric can sit under a mobs crotch on p99 while tank is engaging.

[Ikon]

Nilbog already confirmed in this thread that the mechanics had changed by eqmac.

You remember running directly through trains in order to navigate a zone without getting aggro and needing to camp out on live?

You can't remember ever being trained or training someone unless they were sitting/ fighting a mob?

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Any other input from others?
You are both correct.

All KOS mobs would add you to the hatelist if they were chasing someone and that someone trained them near enough to bring them into aggro range. If they were in aggro range you would be added. As an caster I was acutely aware of this because often one of the mobs would decide it didn't like me sitting and would give me a whack or two as it went past.

All non-kos mobs would add you to their hatelist if you were attacking something they were factioned with, or if you healed or assisted someone who was attacking something they were factioned with because the factioned mob with aggro passed their hate to the trained mobs as they went past. Which would again sometimes result in some peeling off and kicking the shit out of me because I was sitting / lower level.

Remember it well.

Edit: As for the fear thing, if you were higher level the reaction time for aggro is lower so you probably got out of range before they aggroed on you. The people dying at the portal probably were lower or just unlucky / slower to load etc.

[Ikon]

Level Based Aggro

Aggro radius is not finite. It decreases in relation to the difference in level between the mob and yourself. This is why greens will often not aggro until you stand right on top of them. It's also why a level 60 monk can pull a mob from in between 2 blues and aggro only one, while a level 52 monk will aggro all 3 every time. This is why a level 60 of any class is sometimes a better puller than a level 52 monk.

Aggro Delay

When you first enter a mobs aggro range, there is a random delay before a mob aggros you. This is supposed to represent the mob debating whether to eat you or not. During this time you are still not aggro, which is why sometimes you can run through a mob with SoW without aggroing, but always aggro it whenever you run through it at normal speed.

*snip*

Aggro Passing Delay

This is a variant of aggro delay. When an aggro mob passes another non-aggro mob, it will pass the Hate list. When a mob wishes to pass the hate list
http://youngsdojo.tripod.com/Pulling.html