Let's talk teams

[Vayder]

Let's not clutter up Sirken's thread with talk about teams can do it here.

Evils get all the SKs, Necros, and Ogre/Troll Warriors.

Good guys get Paladins, Druids, and Dwarf Warriors.

Seems fair.... discuss.

[Cwall]

good guys get bards

seems fair

[Vayder]

good guys get bards

seems fair

Man this team thing sounds fantastic.

[gloinz]

no

[Nirgon]

Let's split 60 people 2 or 3 ways? Dunno man.

Even if it was 2 teams at our max 600 pop? 300 and 300? Eh... I dunno.

[SamwiseBanned]

2 teams still fail. 3-4 is needed. either race wars like tz/vz or good/newt/evil like sz.

[SamwiseBanned]

right now its Nihilum vs anti-Nihilum which is pretty much 2 teams and as ive stated before without a 3rd or 4th guild popping up, shit will not last. eventually one will break and we are right back to where we started.

[Vile]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125162443/glee/images/2/21/Smh--4.gif

[SamwiseBanned]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125162443/glee/images/2/21/Smh--4.gif

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/363/486/86f.gif

[Nirgon]

right back to where we started.

No, we STARTED with 600+.


http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125162443/glee/images/2/21/Smh--4.gif

Thread over

[SamwiseBanned]

would be a bitch to implement, will never happen without a server wipe which will never happen.

[Aerist]

Server Wipe wouldn't need to done, however it would literally destroy all guilds as some guilds have lighties and some have darkies. (busted out the old school terms)

The problem is what everyone else already knows, not enough population to support it. However I will say this, from what I can tell, most people are ALREADY soloing to 60 for the most part, so i guess it wouldn't be that much of a difference.

Hardcoding teams sounds good in theory, but its just a different variation of what we already have now. 1 big guild, one guild trying to compete. pvp servers require multiple guilds all capable of competing to sustain. Our current population doesn't support it


So the real question everyone should be pondering over, how/where can we advertise to get more of a population.

Advertising is always key, I brought 3 new players here just today alone and they hadn't ever even heard of the site and emu's have been around for years.

Just a thought

[Nirgon]

Everyone rolls evil except for a couple "look at me" derps.

[SamwiseBanned]

min/maxers roll evil, farmers roll newts, people with suicidal tendencies roll good.

[Vayder]

Raiding content with 20 or 30 people without bards seems like a winning strat!

[Cwall]

evil better team

u dum

teams suck

[SamwiseBanned]

bards could be evil, worship rz hommie

[SamwiseBanned]

evils didnt have pallies, pallies, or rangers? good didnt have necros sks, newts were more evil than evils at times. anyhow teams were based on diety not class

[Nirgon]

You can make an evil bard. In fact, they had to add religions to certain classes on SZ to make them more easily available.

I think a high population team based server would be awesome. You're never a "griefer" for killing people of the opposing faction, it makes a great reason (excuse to some?). But then again a high population anything would be awesome.

People who want more targets go good/neutral... but then again if you want more targets shouldn't you want FFA?

[Cwall]

was not aware you could make an evil bard

[SamwiseBanned]

i could have sworn i saw RZ on the deity select. lemme check man that was many moons ago. being on the good team was giant kick in the balls however sometimes a barbarian warrior worshipping rz would appear, lol nikka got owned

edit: i have memory of evil wood elf bards but i cant find proof :/

gimme a server with 20 people and teams and ill hop on that bitch and play. dont care if i never have planes on farm status, thats how i do.

[Cwall]

i actually can't remember like any of the deities available for bards because agnostic was the obvious choice on every other server

[Malevz]

Teams are pointless on a low pop server, why would you limit who you can kill anyway

[SamwiseBanned]

bards can pretty much worship anyone including the veeshan. i am about 95% sure bards could be evil but i dont wanna say for sure because some nerd will prove me wrong and claim i was 3 years old during classic eq.

[SamwiseBanned]

Teams are pointless on a low pop server, why would you limit who you can kill anyway

arent you in Nihilum.. lol

[Swish]

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111125162443/glee/images/2/21/Smh--4.gif

Damn, what's that from?

[SamwiseBanned]

i dunno but i see aunt jemima in the background and now im craving some pancakes

[Barkingturtle]

It's Sanford and Son you fucking fetuses.

[Nizzarr]

Lets not talk about teams

[SamwiseBanned]

Lets not talk about teams

hey man you got your raid box, let me at least dream about my team box.

[runlvlzero]

Qeynos Erud

Akanon Kaladim

Felwith Kelethin

Grobb Oggok

Neriak Freeport

Barbarians by themselves

Let frogs be any class and select their team at creation.

[Barkingturtle]

Frogs on their own team imo.

[SamwiseBanned]

wtf lol. people come up with crazy team ideas. should be sz style which are deity (lore) based. Felwithe and Kelethin killing Qeynos and Erud makes no sense. good vs evil with newts do. why do you think there is paineel, because eruds went to war with each other. was evil vs the goods.

[SamwiseBanned]

also why a human paladin will get wiped he if wonders into the wrong part of town (freeport)

[runlvlzero]

wtf lol. people come up with crazy team ideas. should be sz style which are deity (lore) based. Felwithe and Kelethin killing Qeynos and Erud makes no sense. good vs evil with newts do. why do you think there is paineel, because eruds went to war with each other. was evil vs the goods.

I was trying to be a little bit funny (not serious) but yeah I typically like diety based teams more then anything in EQ. Evil dieties vs good dieties.

But hey... maybe the high elves are going to war with qeynos cause the bayles wont get off their asses about their guard corruption problem... sorta like the UN now-a-days.

[uruend]

there is so little pvp happening on the server why reduce that even more by adding teams??? this makes no sense at all GM please delete this thread

[SearyxTZ]

Teams would increase pvp, I think. Gonna copy and paste my thoughts in the other thread

Casuals leveling up here don't even pvp (and didn't on Rallos Zek either), because it is inherently more risky to pvp in a FFA environment and ruin your chances of getting a group.

On teams, you fight the other team. Your zones are your zones.



Dark versus light is the only option I'd be considering. This was VZ and TZ (sans crossteaming). Optimal for zone control especially given the outpost layouts in Kunark. It's also much easier to identify your enemies/allies when it's based off race instead of deity.

[mostbitter]

it's also easy to ignore and was eventually ignored on TZ and holy fuck

[runlvlzero]

it's also easy to ignore and was eventually ignored on TZ and holy fuck

This lol ^^ stupid cross teaming stupids.

[SearyxTZ]

let's assume hardcoded teams for any of this

[SamwiseBanned]

why anyone would assume otherwise is beyond me

[Smedy]

what person in their right mind would want a 60 person server to be split up into hardcoded teams so you can't even play with the people you've gotten to like.

you idiots need to stop posting on the boards and keep truckin, we need yellow text and a huge exp boost during level 1-50 and also a huge exp boost while being grouped with people to encourage grouping over soloing.

other then that it's pretty much only resists were talking that might be an issue. having teams based on the race was fun on live, but unbalanced as fuck, evils don't get bard, and they are probably by far the best class in game both pvp, pve, and any other situation you can think of.

[uruend]

what person in their right mind would want a 60 person server to be split up into hardcoded teams so you can't even play with the people you've gotten to like.

you idiots need to stop posting on the boards and keep truckin, we need yellow text and a huge exp boost during level 1-50 and also a huge exp boost while being grouped with people to encourage grouping over soloing.

other then that it's pretty much only resists were talking that might be an issue. having teams based on the race was fun on live, but unbalanced as fuck, evils don't get bard, and they are probably by far the best class in game both pvp, pve, and any other situation you can think of.

Fuckin thank you

[karsten]

what person in their right mind would want a 60 person server to be split up into hardcoded teams so you can't even play with the people you've gotten to like.

you idiots need to stop posting on the boards and keep truckin, we need yellow text and a huge exp boost during level 1-50 and also a huge exp boost while being grouped with people to encourage grouping over soloing.

other then that it's pretty much only resists were talking that might be an issue. having teams based on the race was fun on live, but unbalanced as fuck, evils don't get bard, and they are probably by far the best class in game both pvp, pve, and any other situation you can think of.

[JenJen]

Hello pals writing this from my desk at work HEheHEh!!

[mitic]

id consider teams only if there was a wipe or fresh server

[karsten]

Hello pals writing this from my desk at work HEheHEh!!

do you work in the basement of Reynholm Industries!?

[runlvlzero]

Thats Weyland Yutani, get it right.

Cyborgs dont post from their desk, they post from their minds.

[Smedy]

karsten pal bro, get me flying high by the time i get home dawg

[mitic]

karsten pal bro, get me flying high by the time i get home dawg

starts 17pm cet, be there.

[Smedy]

ill be at a resturant eating classy food dog i can't be there, but i'll be there later maybe, you nigs better stay until i get one

having irl conflicting with everquest isn't classic, implement yellow text naoow

[karsten]

dont lie dude you'll be eating meatballs

maybe a meatball taco if you are at a mexican place

[SamwiseBanned]

hey im not suggesting this server go to teams, im merely sharing my wet dream of a teams server. hope is all i got, let me swim in it bros.

[runlvlzero]

hey im not suggesting this server go to teams, im merely sharing my wet dream of a teams server. hope is all i got, let me swim in it bros.

yeah let us talk and fantasize... u should know about fantasy smedy

[CrystalBlue]

hey im not suggesting this server go to teams, im merely sharing my wet dream of a teams server. hope is all i got, let me swim in it bros.

They could put in teams, and you'd still play for one week then shift to several other games for 3 days each.

Have you stuck with anything longer then a month in the last 5 years?

[SamwiseBanned]

FFA pvp is meaningless. sure its fun to gank but eventually it gets boring. i had fun keeping the griefers out of faydark but now that Kunark is out everyone is spread out again. the best pvp experience besides Discord will always be my time on SZ. Despite being on the good team and getting ganked more than Red99, there was an overall missions and focus to defend your team and control your zones. ffa pvp is ffa, no reason for anything other than lulz.

[CrystalBlue]

Dark versus light is the only option I'd be considering. This was VZ and TZ (sans crossteaming). Optimal for zone contro.

Tottaly and utterly meaningless when we all have multiple free accounts. There was a reason why early SZ and DAoC restricted your account to one team/realm each.

"zone control" lol. If you were evil, Nihilum (or whoever) would log on their good toons to destroy you. If you were good, they'd switch to their evil accounts to destroy you.

Now if they somehow restricted every individual player to one account/team each, then yeah. But thats never gonna happen, and therefore "teams" is a non-issue.

[SamwiseBanned]

They could put in teams, and you'd still play for one week then shift to several other games for 3 days each.

Have you stuck with anything longer then a month in the last 5 years?

Ive been playing eq off and on forever. I always take breaks when things get stale. Fun/entertainment will always be the deciding factor on what I am playing atm, not whether I'll look like a flake or not. However I've been part of this community non-stop since Jan. EQ will always be my favorite game of all time but it isnt my life. I didn't hop on the Diablo 3, Guild Wars 2, DayZ, ect ect bandwagon so clearly its not just me trying new things. I'll tell you right now though, when Resident Evil 6 comes out, I'll be all over that like flies on shit.

All I am saying is I had a blast on SZ. RZ got real boring, especially when it went the anti pk route. Basically you had twinks/naked casters ganking people and everyone else was Anti. I eventually quit rz out of boredom until SZ came out. Teams > FFA. Probably why WoW Vanilla pvp was so damn good.

[RoguePhantom]

ill be at a resturant eating classy food dog i can't be there, but i'll be there later maybe, you nigs better stay until i get one

having irl conflicting with everquest isn't classic, implement yellow text naoow

By classy food, he means at Long John Silvers for "Talk like a Pirate Day"

[Samrothstein]

FFA pvp is meaningless.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/002552111/-73153822905_xlarge.jpeg

[runlvlzero]

Tottaly and utterly meaningless when we all have multiple free accounts. There was a reason why early SZ and DAoC restricted your account to one team/realm each.

"zone control" lol. If you were evil, Nihilum (or whoever) would log on their good toons to destroy you. If you were good, they'd switch to their evil accounts to destroy you.

Now if they somehow restricted every individual player to one account/team each, then yeah. But thats never gonna happen, and therefore "teams" is a non-issue.

Yeah man frickin 1 char, forcing you to delete if you wanted to reroll. That was like an SZ thing if i remember for quite some time. Or chars only on the same team, like you were locked neutral if u went newt. I forget.

But if someone did create a team server, I would totally vote for 1 char, one account per IP rule. maybe make people use SMS or something to authenticate, harder to dupe phone #'s then IP's... not an ideal solution but theres more then one way to skin that cat, unique pgp keys etc. Still work arounds but it would stop people from doing it en mass and probably make it enforce-able.

[SamwiseBanned]

Do you think great games like TFC or CS would be great had they been FFA? I prefere team gameplay, that doesn't make me stupid. Sure there is team Nihilum vs Anti-Nihilum but other than raids, what is there to fight for? Horde vs Alliance, makes sense. In Aika you have 5 nations which are at war. EQ2 has evil/good with exiles in between. I am sure StarWars has teams but I've never played. Sullon Zek made a lot of sense, as did TZ/VZ. EVE is FFA but you can take part in the Militias which is pretty close to team pvp and it fits in with the lore.

Okay maybe I should clarify, I prefere teams based pvp that is based on the lore of the game. It makes no sense for a halfling druid of Karana to gank another halfling druid of Karana for a PKT. However a halfing druid taking out a halfling druid that has gone rogue killing all the residents of MT does make sense.

http://i.imgur.com/GsD8F.jpg

[CrystalBlue]

I "think" SZ started out as one character slot per account (like FV roleplay server), and it was later increased to three characters per account (again, like FV). Regardless, you could not use those extra char slots to make anything other then another character on the same team as what you already had on the account. So you had to buy and maintain a second account if you wanted toons on the other team (and several people did just that, but w/e, more money for sony to support the server).

Here though, its commonplace for people to put every single one of their alts on a whole new account, so they can of course sell them off easier when they get bored of them or w/e.

If I was in charge I would restrict all players to one account, I would also not allow "selling" (for plat or anything for that matter) accounts or toons.

Anyways, its also deeply retarded to talk of teams on a 85 pop server. Just be happy Nihilum stopped recruitment for awhile there to allow/force others to join Red Dawn.

I hear RD got a taste of some raid pvp last night, is this true??

If so, thats thriving.

[SamwiseBanned]

Best PvP I've had, win or lose, was defending the shire and HighKeep from evils. full immersed, without the acne.

[CrystalBlue]

Yes samewise , I prefer teams based on diety/lore too. I was a big fan of SZ and I was also a big fan of the "lore play" servers that Shadowbane eventually opened up.

Those "lore play" servers restricted your city/nation/guild to only classes and races that fit into the city charter of your city.

For example (and im going by memory here..) one city charter was "Barbarian Horde" and it only allowed .... barbarians, minotaurs, half giants, warriors, scouts, bards, and ummm... Furies. I'm sure it allowed a few other things to, but this is just an example.

It did make the game and the pvp more flavorful.

[runlvlzero]

Do you think great games like TFC or CS would be great had they been FFA? I prefere team gameplay, that doesn't make me stupid. Sure there is team Nihilum vs Anti-Nihilum but other than raids, what is there to fight for? Horde vs Alliance, makes sense. In Aika you have 5 nations which are at war. EQ2 has evil/good with exiles in between. I am sure StarWars has teams but I've never played. Sullon Zek made a lot of sense, as did TZ/VZ. EVE is FFA but you can take part in the Militias which is pretty close to team pvp and it fits in with the lore.

Okay maybe I should clarify, I prefere teams based pvp that is based on the lore of the game. It makes no sense for a halfling druid of Karana to gank another halfling druid of Karana for a PKT. However a halfing druid taking out a halfling druid that has gone rogue killing all the residents of MT does make sense.

http://i.imgur.com/GsD8F.jpg

here here, yeah man its not retarded to think of at all.

No one is demanding it for the server, were just talkin like its a good idea, which it is.

In eve its very team oriented like the first thing that happens in that game is you have a bunch of "corps" recruiting you. I dont know of many solo corps in eve, i would say its a pretty rare thing. So its very team oriented.

Quake CTF is were its at, not saying deathmatch is bad, but eventually the CTF and teamplay and frendship is were its at after you build skill in deathmatch. Its also not for everyone so deathmatch still has its place, but CTF is by far a great addition.

TBH if someone got off their asses and coded a really neat pvp emu with teamplay and some interesting features and zone control and bonus's... for fighting over stuff, theres great potential there.

I'm not demanding rogean or anyone else do it but don't knock sam around cause he said its a good idea.

[SamwiseBanned]

I "think" SZ started out as one character slot per account (like FV roleplay server), and it was later increased to three characters per account (again, like FV). Regardless, you could not use those extra char slots to make anything other then another character on the same team as what you already had on the account. So you had to buy and maintain a second account if you wanted toons on the other team (and several people did just that, but w/e, more money for sony to support the server).

Here though, its commonplace for people to put every single one of their alts on a whole new account, so they can of course sell them off easier when they get bored of them or w/e.

If I was in charge I would restrict all players to one account, I would also not allow "selling" (for plat or anything for that matter) accounts or toons.

Anyways, its also deeply retarded to talk of teams on a 85 pop server. Just be happy Nihilum stopped recruitment for awhile there to allow/force others to join Red Dawn.

I hear RD got a taste of some raid pvp last night, is this true??

If so, thats thriving.

Also I apologize if I sound like I am trolling the current server. Sirken asked for suggestions, teams was brought up, and here we are discussing it. I am 99% sure itll never happen, too much shit would have to change, guilds would be broken, ect ect. That being said, I still enjoy discussing it.

I would be for the 1-3 characters allowed per account as well as team lock. I think it would be impossible to prevent people from making separate accounts to spy but at least they couldn't be logged into their main while they did without an IP exemption.

The biggest step the server can take right now, imo of course, is enabling a beta YT with locations and changing the rules to FFA (No Rules.) Big pvp is starting to pop up and with it will come floods of petitions. He trained me, he feared my mob, ect ect. GMs shouldnt have to spend their free time sorting out all this BS. Let the server police it self. There is some real talk that will only help the server.

[CrystalBlue]

Naw, they cant allow FFA training. And if the server's history proves anything, they can and will ban the chronic trainers (see xantille, letsjoe, lethdar, and all the other chronic trainers who ate multiple suspensions and got griefed off to LoZ where they could train in peace).

Zone control needs to be decided by pvp, not who can log in throw away monks to train with.

Server really is as fine as we can expect, just needs a few more minor tweaks:

-YT
-Group xp bonus in place of all the flat xp bonuses

[SamwiseBanned]

I don't think any of the above have been banned, for sure not Lethdar. Slathar trained for months on end, I remember one day he had a dozen petitions about him training in Sol B, didn't even eat a suspension. Outside of a high quality FRAPS or GM witnessing, you cannot enforce that rule. I am not saying training should be legal because there is nothing wrong with it, I am saying its impossible to enforce it fairly. What will happen is some will get away with it, some wont.

I've been thinking about the group xp bonus, long and hard. I don't think it'll help as much as you would think. Ultimately you cannot pressure people into grouping. Times have changed sadly and even though EQ is a game of teamplay, it is heavily dependent on your time. Most people want to get xp the most efficient/fast way possible. It takes a long time to get a group going sometimes, between travel and finding the right classes, it can take hours.

Time - First getting the group together. Unless you are lucky, most likely people will be on different continents and certainly different zones. Druids and wizards being the only porters doesnt help since these are two classes you will almost always see soloing. So most likely you gotta find a druid out of group to port your members near where you are. Currently the porting situation isnt good, the few times I've logged on, I've been asked for ports. If you are fortunate enough to find a porter or people near you then you have the next problem, finding the right classes. Without a constant supply of priests to heal groups, untwinked melees are doomed. Even the majority of new clerics solo to 40 now. Besides Chellsea, all the recent chanters (I've seen), are soloers. Druids/Shammies soloin. Even my favorite classs to invite to groups (mages) be soloin it up. Everyone has tunnel vision towards end-game that they forget about the social aspect of this game. Okay now im ranting, back to study.

TL DR, people wanna get to end-game as fast as possible, leaving casuals/group dependent classes in the dust. Without a constant supply of group oriented healers (players that prefere groups over solo), groups wont happen even with a super group xp bonus. Outside a few situations, a healer is ALWAYS needed to form any group.

[Nirgon]

Maybe it was because I played Velious era on SZ but I never had evils come into Highkeep.. maybe once but probably never. The PvP I found I had to seek, I never really defended a zone.

Velks did get some frequent evil visitors like Kirban (another wizard who managed to survive in a classic resist system, and yes before he got mana burn too).

[CrystalBlue]

I don't think any of the above have been banned, for sure not Lethdar.
I've been thinking about the group xp bonus, long and hard. I don't think it'll help as much as you would think. Ultimately you cannot pressure people into grouping. Times have changed sadly and even though EQ is a game of teamplay, it is heavily dependent on your time. Most people want to get xp the most efficient/fast way possible. It takes a long time to get a group going sometimes, between travel and finding the right classes, it can take hours.

Time - First getting the group together. Unless you are lucky, most likely people will be on different continents and certainly different zones. Druids and wizards being the only porters doesnt help since these are two classes you will almost always see soloing. So most likely you gotta find a druid out of group to port your members near where you are. Currently the porting situation isnt good, the few times I've logged on, I've been asked for ports. If you are fortunate enough to find a porter or people near you then you have the next problem, finding the right classes. Without a constant supply of priests to heal groups, untwinked melees are doomed. Even the majority of new clerics solo to 40 now. Besides Chellsea, all the recent chanters (I've seen), are soloers. Druids/Shammies soloin. Even my favorite classs to invite to groups (mages) be soloin it up. Everyone has tunnel vision towards end-game that they forget about the social aspect of this game. Okay now im ranting, back to study.

TL DR, people wanna get to end-game as fast as possible, leaving casuals/group dependent classes in the dust. Without a constant supply of group oriented healers (players that prefere groups over solo), groups wont happen even with a super group xp bonus. Outside a few situations, a healer is ALWAYS needed to form any group.

I dunno about outright bans, but I know for a fact several of those trainers ate nice long multiple day suspensions. Same will happen again if people try it enough, always more then a few people running fraps whenever guild vs guild pvp goes down.

About xp bonus, all the reasons you listed is WHY we need the individual flat rate bonuses to go away and die in a fire, and be replaced with only group bonuses.

Its the absolute only way to save the group leveling game. We are gonna bleed away non-solo classes like a hemophilliac without it. For long term server health and player retention, this must happen and happen fast.

[SamwiseBanned]

Kirban the manaburn whore :) I may be wrong but I think SZ started out in the Velious Era, for sure Kunark was out unless i remember wrong.

[Nirgon]

More like the classes that can already solo want even more of a boost I bet. Sure this'd help non group classes, but people shouldn't be selfish and should group guildies.

"No melee left behind"

[SamwiseBanned]

I still think people will solo regardless of group xp bonus. Thankfully this isn't as much of a problem once you hit 40+. Basically we need more new players and not twinked alts/power leveled alts. Again I suggest a leveling path that takes the least bit of traveling. Evils will have no problems binding in gfay and being able to level 1X-40 from the same bind point. You cant beat Unrest/MM combo only being a few zones away. 12-40+ with minimal travel. It is also between 2 druid rings and a dock.

[CrystalBlue]

More like the classes that can already solo want even more of a boost I bet. Sure this'd help non group classes, but people shouldn't be selfish and should group guildies.

"No melee left behind"

What do you mean by your first sentence?

All the flat rate individual xp bonuses need to go away so the solo classes get nothing.

They want xp bonus, they need to add memebers to their groups.

We can talk all we want about "no melee left behind" but the fact is until the devs implement change, we will continue to see the non-soloers lag behind, get frusterated and quit.

There are already several level 60 melee and guess what, they are ALL in Nihilum. The rest of the server is destined to be druids and necros. Have fun with that. Raid vs Raid.. one side with druids and the other with rogues/monks/paladins/sk's and warriors.

Let me know how that works out.

Remove individual flat rate server xp bonus NOW, and replace it with group xp bonus, the larger the group the higher the bonus.

I've been watching some melee on the server since kunark launched. The vast majority of them on my "watch list" have quit after ive observed them "lfg" for hours every day/night in /ooc.

Welcome to red99, where enchanters and clerics in a duo get insane xp , and everyone else is LFG. (or soloing)

[CrystalBlue]

p.s. Kirban was a known exploiter/early MQ user who did nothing but zone into velks and nuke people 3 floors above him.

This changed to manaburn once per hour when luclin hit.

Then he switched to a bard and MQed and trained his way to glory till the box died when it became nothing but train on train instead of pvp. Another good reason why trains should never be allowed here.

[Haul]

Lets not talk about teams

he can't have threats against his guildbank :cool:

[Haul]

FFA pvp is meaningless. sure its fun to gank but eventually it gets boring. i had fun keeping the griefers out of faydark but now that Kunark is out everyone is spread out again. the best pvp experience besides Discord will always be my time on SZ. Despite being on the good team and getting ganked more than Red99, there was an overall missions and focus to defend your team and control your zones. ffa pvp is ffa, no reason for anything other than lulz.

agreed though, ffa was much better with 500-4,000 players on so you'd have all different matchup's and circumstances

[SamwiseBanned]

Maybe it was because I played Velious era on SZ but I never had evils come into Highkeep.. maybe once but probably never. The PvP I found I had to seek, I never really defended a zone.

Velks did get some frequent evil visitors like Kirban (another wizard who managed to survive in a classic resist system, and yes before he got mana burn too).

what does the current resist system have to do with whether a wizard is successful in pvp? Wizard is a gank class. its not like you hail your opponent and /bow before casting. ive never seen a wizard first cast a root and if i did, i would laugh. even if root landed at 200 mr, i would be stupid as hell to root your opponent instead of lobbing an ice comet at him.

a good wizard can get off a couple of nukes before the victum even knows whats going on, assuming your arent in a 2 by 2 square room.

[Nirgon]

Again he talks about wizards being ridiculous in Luclin. Way to be relevant.

Oh and sorry about your guild's actions and the result of the server's population.

[Vile]

"No melee left behind"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dSuhuKYW6NM/R860JZYSXiI/AAAAAAAABNo/sBs__jIamNo/s320/Mission+failed.bmp

[SamwiseBanned]

a wizard with a stack of buffs with buried lev is enough to kill most melees without jboots. where root comes into play? well i have no idea.

[runlvlzero]

Naw, they cant allow FFA training. And if the server's history proves anything, they can and will ban the chronic trainers (see xantille, letsjoe, lethdar, and all the other chronic trainers who ate multiple suspensions and got griefed off to LoZ where they could train in peace).

Zone control needs to be decided by pvp, not who can log in throw away monks to train with.

Server really is as fine as we can expect, just needs a few more minor tweaks:

-YT
-Group xp bonus in place of all the flat xp bonuses

I always hear about how horrible trains were on RZ blahblhablha.

U know what I played on a server with rampant trainers. It can be controlled. Trains can be broke, they can be recovered from. The better team will still win reguardless of whether training is enabled or not. Most of all I still had fun for the majority of time i played there even though we had to defend against trains hourly every single night we spent in fear.

The only factor training is causal too is GM involvement in player affairs.

Don't fear the trains. Its been a part of MMO's since way back in the day, even muds and that old AOL version of NwN involed NPC's in pvp. I think even UO had some form of training as a tactic. It also can add more depth to the gameplay on top of 1vs1, 1vsmany, 20vs20, you can have many creative and unique and imaginative ways to fight a superior force. It adds depth. It also adds a reason to find people and hunt them down. It makes guilds work out agreements when they do want to get something done. It creates politics and drama. Its got potential. It makes mobilization and game/zone knowledge matter more.

I garantee after the two diehard guilds (groups of people) spend 2 months training eachother here, eventually there might be peace talks about it. Who knows. Can't know unless you give it a chance. Furthermore what if they did come to an agreement and a 3rd party came on the scene and started trying to train, they might even work toghether against that third party as a common goal. Lots of really cool things are possible when liberty and freedom are allowed.

If anything training and agro dispearsal could be tweaked a lil on emu to be more classic.

I think most people here, or the majority are willing to give FFA a try.

P.S. don't forget about the bards man, or the clerics, pallies, or wiz0rds or anyone who can escape their own trains for that matter or dump agro. Its not just monks!

In defense and playing devils advocate, rampant trains for awhile "could" "maybe" damage population. Depending on the maturity and dedication the current end game players have. It might also make room for more that wont play here because of fear of being put down over it.

Final edit: It will, would, definately stir the pot, i'm going with will, i'm hopeful it will work if tried.

I lied one more edit: If its a problem to enforce fairly and equally, the just thing to do is not enforce it at all. Yeah and also this is a bad idea if it were something like hacking, but the object is to enforce fairly or not. Not kinda half enforce. Of course the goal should be full and fair enforcement. Wanna voulenteer to be a fair an unbiased observer 24/7? I doubt it. I sure as hell don't. I wan't to play the box.

[CrystalBlue]

I always hear about how horrible trains were on RZ blahblhablha.
!


I stopped reading right there. We were talking about SZ.


p.s. try and stop a rez box DA trainer from dumping most of sleepers tomb on you all night.

p.p.s. even if you like it, 99 percent of your guild will quit and it will be you alone in sleepers tomb with one rez box DA trainer.

p.p.p.s. at this point the server dies.

p.p.p.p.s. then all four pvp servers get merged and EQ pvp dies.

[Cwall]

"No melee left behind"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dSuhuKYW6NM/R860JZYSXiI/AAAAAAAABNo/sBs__jIamNo/s320/Mission+failed.bmp

yeah just keep killing elephants and lionesses bro, we'll be over here killing aviaks

[runlvlzero]

I stopped reading right there. We were talking about SZ.


p.s. try and stop a rez box DA trainer from dumping most of sleepers tomb on you all night.

p.p.s. even if you like it, 99 percent of your guild will quit and it will be you alone in sleepers tomb with one rez box DA trainer.

p.p.p.s. at this point the server dies.

p.p.p.p.s. then all four pvp servers get merged and EQ pvp dies.

Wasnt the sleeper woken on SZ? Yes.

http://www.albrandes.com/skden/articles/sleeper.asp

So. I'm sure the rampant trains killed that server. Not going to buy it. My point being stuff still happend on these servers. Not sure if sleeper was killed but I am not going to blame it on trainings.

Super PS and final lob in this debate, training may have contributed to the demise of live EQ pvp but it was not the nail in the coffin nore the only factor involved. WoW, MMO hopping, all kinds of other things are involved. Something I cannot really debate further because i'm not knowledge-able enough about what the real demise of EQ pvp was. Can training be tiresome, yeah sometimes u really dont want to deal with it, but from what i hear its happening as we debate it.

[Nirgon]

PvP servers died when resists became super fucked up with PoP gear and weapons got out of control. Obvi.

(Can't wait for the counter argument that the above is just like making root unresistable at 51mr to an even target... worlds of dumb)

[SamwiseBanned]

PvP servers died when resists became super fucked up with PoP gear and weapons got out of control. Obvi.

(Can't wait for the counter argument that the above is just like making root unresistable at 51mr to an even target... worlds of dumb)

i dont know, i took my first break from eq pvp shortly after luclin. things like manaburn were pretty stupid and luclin as a whole seems out of place. I came back for pop. I liked the idea of leveling in the planes but PoK really made Norrath seem small. as far as pvp is concerned. i think as the gap between casual and poopsocker grew, eq pvp died. my leather equiped ass has a chance in classic/kunark against a dragon loot whore but against an elemental geared raider, forget about it. at this point you needed to raid to compete and for me, that wasnt happening.

[runlvlzero]

I remember allot of flaming about resists breaking in pop now that you mention it (one of the reasons I did not get back into the SZ scene) - and the revamps, and how root would land for 10 seconds instead of full duration and all kinds of crazy things tried.

And I remember allot of complaining about PoK and safe zones, people clicking up to the book.

Also cant forget rangers... I remember people complaining about ranger discs and someone more recently bragging about that vex-thal bow that would wreck casters.

So for sure lots of things contributed. But I wouldnt blame it on balance.

Maybe it would be best to generalize it as "Pace" so the pace got too quick, or unfair, for or unbalanced for some and not others... I dunno how to put it. The pace changed and it was more wow and less what people who played EQ liked. One click kills does not make an EQ pvp server good would be the best generalization (derp).

Also this pretty much sums it up, ide /agree

my leather equiped ass has a chance in classic/kunark against a dragon loot whore but against an elemental geared raider, forget about it. at this point you needed to raid to compete and for me, that wasnt happening. its sorta like forcing people to play the game a certain way when u have to do that kind of thing, its not the end, but its another factor.

[Samrothstein]

This Crystalblue guy is an embarassment to humanity

[Vile]

This Crystalblue guy is an embarassment to humanity

heh

[Potus]

Was there a reason why this server launched without teams? It seems like this ruleset is a weird mix of Rallos with Sullon's exp-loss (which literally killed the server).

[Dullah]

For all the reasons already stated. Namely that you need a highly populated server to pull off teams successfully. There is not now, nor will there ever be a high population EQ pvp server again. People should get in now while the getting is good (as it gets).

[mitic]

Kirban the manaburn whore :) I may be wrong but I think SZ started out in the Velious Era, for sure Kunark was out unless i remember wrong.

more like, kirban the mq-user gms didnt care about

[SearyxTZ]

Is this whole "teams needs a higher population to work and FFA doesn't" line of logic just something that one guy just made up or think-tanked here? Because I'm not understanding that.

With FFA casuals are simultaneously too afraid to pvp eachother but not organized or defined well enough to ally for pvp.

If we ended up with the current situation of Nihilum being massive/dominant, they would be at least be confined to one team. It is much easier for smaller guilds and casuals to ally together under a teams ruleset. It doesn't happen with FFA.

[Zuranthium]

Good vs. Neutral vs. Evil should have been on this server from the start. Giving new players a defined team from the very beginning is really helpful for having them stick around and I agree with those who have said it creates a greater sense of purpose.

[Potus]

For all the reasons already stated. Namely that you need a highly populated server to pull off teams successfully. There is not now, nor will there ever be a high population EQ pvp server again. People should get in now while the getting is good (as it gets).

There was a pretty high pop when the server started. Easily enough for teams.

Dude....
It takes me 5 minutes to kill 1 mb and gain back the exp i lost at 52, from one pk.
Its not pve death. Theres a difference.

When the server started exp was really slow and crappy and a lot of people died early and quit. I remember because I was one of them.

Good vs. Neutral vs. Evil should have been on this server from the start. Giving new players a defined team from the very beginning is really helpful for having them stick around and I agree with those who have said it creates a greater sense of purpose.

Yup I agree. The most comradery I ever felt was on Sullon. It was close with Vallon/Tallon for a while until I started murdering people on my own "team" who deserved it, but Sullon you really did hate other teams and loved your own.

[Scratch&Sniff]

what person in their right mind would want a 60 person server to be split up into hardcoded teams so you can't even play with the people you've gotten to like.

[aborted]

lets have each race as a different team

[runlvlzero]

the kind of person that wants classes as teams.... (which is epic win btw)

Wizard and rogue guilds would dominate all. I say we break it down further so each race and class has its own hardcoded guild

[Gustoo]

I agree. We need class/race teams. I will be chairman of the Halfling Cleric team please.

[Tycko]

Team Hum/Monk is gonna rape faces... I can't wait

[SamwiseBanned]

team halfling druid would be the zerg

[runlvlzero]

Thinkin about it, normal xp

start at level 51

everyone is in a guild with class OR class and race

Velious

resists are probably not that bad i'm not gonna say they are but maybe if possible slightly more focus'd towards classic (i've actually resisted partial on elemental shit, at least a bunch in pve) - more classic resists probably tweak up caster spell dmg anyway because 50% was not classic.

enable cats and berzerkers and bl's (but not the moon), cats can start in qeynos or barbarian land and be Nomads from the kerran tribes.

I liked the moon, would be fun to enable it, and re-itemize towards velious 1 group, and an alternative velious raid set slightly worse then NTOV in vex thal, make it a leveling area. scale difficulties to be on par with velious. Maybe use the extra mobs/itemization to diversify and give people more options in their gear instead of 1 best in slot 2 or 3, one focus on stamina, one on str, another on resists or something... that would be super mega effort though.

keep luclin models off ;p

Maybe keep aa's out and maybe put some in and rebalance them. likely just keep out. same with crazy discs.

Just long for paludal caverns you could hide in the rocks on a gnome there )

[runlvlzero]

Cwall non-factor, ames ur cool dood. Nice shirt.

[Ensane]

I have a EQ Ruleset i have thought of for over 10+ years..

Make players take faction hits for killing other players! this will not force teams and still appeal to FFA players but, encourages teams for people who want the team dynamic (i.e. killing a human from freeport you lose faction with freeport guards etc..)

Give more benefit for getting higher standings with your home city faction (some quests with rewards, ranks, higher faction hit to oposing player for killing you, etc) and the ability for your home faction to change over time based on your own standings and factions (of course being a ogre loved by elves would take alot of work but, worth it to the player who wants to earn that)

take old school RP server item rules, (Remove most no-drop items) and do 1 item loot for pvp death from Rallos Zek.

Ultimately you're left with consequence to death (very important Risk vs Reward helps elements of community/politics/economy), the need to wear loot to pvp, a better in-game political system based on factions, overall this would intergrate pve and pvp in a more united system.

[runlvlzero]

I have a EQ Ruleset i have thought of for over 10+ years..

Make players take faction hits for killing other players! this will not force teams and still appeal to FFA players but, encourages teams for people who want the team dynamic (i.e. killing a human from freeport you lose faction with freeport guards etc..)

Give more benefit for getting higher standings with your home city faction (some quests with rewards, ranks, higher faction hit to oposing player for killing you, etc) and the ability for your home faction to change over time based on your own standings and factions (of course being a ogre loved by elves would take alot of work but, worth it to the player who wants to earn that)

take old school RP server item rules, (Remove most no-drop items) and do 1 item loot for pvp death from Rallos Zek.

Ultimately you're left with consequence to death (very important Risk vs Reward helps elements of community/politics/economy), the need to wear loot to pvp, a better in-game political system based on factions, overall this would intergrate pve and pvp in a more united system.

This would also be an ideal system for me, but the QQ around here is that it would be to hard for ballers in school with 19 year old hotties to manage.