What do YOU want?

[Sirken]

i'm not doing a poll, because lets be honest, this is not a democracy. The overall vision for this server being a classic live like server with pvp turned on will not change. that being said, the staff strongly believes that we can keep that vision, while also improving the server, and making it more enjoyable for all of the players. Your ideas/opinions will be listened to, and considered. but that does not mean we are going to add things just because the people that want them know how to cry the loudest.

i've been reading many, many pvp threads. and quite honestly, they are pathetic. most people (not all) like to blame the staff yet fail to realize that they are their own biggest enemies, and their own biggest roadblocks (ie: wanting a bigger pop, then griefing players off the server). however, if u really want to continue to blame the staff, i'll gladly make Rogean apologize for providing the most legit EQpvp server that has ever graced the EQEmu project.


That being said, anyone that has anything at all to offer, i invite you to share it in this thread. as long as u do so in a professional and civilized manner, i will read every single idea/comment/suggestion, and i will also forward them to the rest of the staff so that the ideas can at least be brought to the table and discussed by the staff.


Again, this is not a complaint thread, this is a suggestion/idea thread. if you have a complaint, you better follow it up with how you would improve it.

PS- and if you shit up my thread with trolling, shit-talking, or some other form or dumb immature BS, i'm going to ban you on every level i have access to, repeatedly, until Rogean removes me from staff.

PPS- not really looking to do a Q&A here. if u ask questions and i dont answer, don't get all pissy. just send me a PM. i may however ask follow up questions to players with suggestions, so that i can acquire more information on the suggestion on behalf of myself or the rest of the staff.


Love,
Sirken

[SamwiseBanned]

Could write a TLDR post but that would be TLDR. I'll keep it short and simple.

Priority

Yellow Text - People want it, it attracts pvp, much lols will be had. The few things I took away from my LoZ experience was this. It really was fun and it even made grinding more enjoyable knowing someone is getting their asses kicked. Ultimately this game is for entertainment and no other feature entertains more than YT.

Resists - Must stay true to providing a balanced resist system over a classic one. Classic resists were built around the game being new and a lot of things were unknown/undiscovered. It was also built around a bigger population size and the availability of resist gear. No way in hell did they expect more than half the population to be decked out in blue diamond gear by Kunark. I am not saying the current system doesn't need a little tweak here and there but not at the expense of every melee being John Rambo with a few pieces of MR gear.

Secondary (please don't judge me, I am merely throwing things out there)

Leaderboard - I think leaderboard coupled with incentives is a great way to encourage pvp. Similiar to diablo II ladder, we would have "seasons." The person with the most kills at the end of the season would receive and in-game title he would wear until the next season is over then the next winner receives the title. Gives those solo pvpers something to work for.

One More Red Guide - One more guide/gm for red would be nice. Again nothing that would make me quit if it didn't happen but would definitely be appreciated by those who have waited days for assistance. Not that you aren't on everyday but its easy to miss Sirken by an hour or two multiple days in a row.

Increase PvP Rez Timer - The victors of a pvp encounter should be able to rez the dead (assuming they have a cleric ofc.) It would allow the victors to maintain zone control and reimburse the xp lost to their teammates. This will also encourage people to be civil so that should they lose a major battle, they can ask the victors to rez and scoot.

Controversial

No Rules/No GM Intervention - Too much rule lawyering and he said/she said bs. There were times pre-Kunark when we decided not to port up to planes to pvp for fear of accidently training the opposition then being banned. I've seen both sides train (not in a few months) during Naggy pvp but I wasn't pro enough to keep FRAPs running 24/7. My point is training is something you cannot enforce 24/7. We have xp loss which is straight outta the SZ playbook so its not too crazy to say we need a FFA server. I wasn't going to mention names but this is common server knowledge that Slathar repeatedly trained people on a daily basis. I have no clue how he managed to sweet talk his way out of dozens of petitions but he did. Let us pvp without having to worry about one pathing kobold training the entire zone.

Hard-coded Teams - I saw Seary say something so I just had to add it to my collection of suggestions. Above all else, this would be the best change for me. However I browse the forums daily and know this is not what a lot of people want. I'll keep this as a suggestion and add more to it later but yeah, I would totally leave for a less populated server if it had hard-coded teams.

Enable /testbuff - I do not agree with character transfers nor character copies from blue. I can however live with /testbuff. For those of you who never tried the live testserver /testbuff leveled you to 20, gave you all spells up to 20, skills maxed to 20, and you were given a handful of newbie gear for each slot. Maybe the gear thing would be too far because it was pretty good stuff. I believe it was better than sol ro armor or equivilant but I wouldnt mind new players going straight to 20. I mean it wouldnt be much different than now. Most melees dont survive low levels. The ones that do are either twinked or PLed. At least if they started out 20 they could head to unrest/wherever to find some groupage. Personally it would be nice not having to worry about brand new toons. Also at level 20, ANY class is able to somewhat farm. Sisters in Lfay anyone? I think any higher than 20 will be pushing it though. I've thought about this before but figured it would be too insane to bring up but with recent crazytalk of character transfers, I figured it'd me okay to suggest.

Note: I will be editing the hell out of this until I get it right and as I add more stuff. I think everyone should keep their suggests to one post unless you get locked out of editing it.

[Sirken]

Could write a TLDR post but that would be TLDR. I'll keep it short and simple.

SamWise brings up a good point

for the record, i know everyone is busy, and twitter has grossly limited people's thoughts to about 150characters. but, you would not want the staff to run the server with a short and simple approach. you want them to be detailed, specific, and precise.

and we (the staff) want the same from you. give me the most detailed, specific, precise version of your ideas and suggestions.

if they really are important to you, then everyone should be able to take 5-10 minutes to actually write them out with specific details, examples, etc. i promise no post will be ignored by me on the grounds of TLDR. if you take the time to write it, i promise you I'll take the time to read it.

<3

[Littlegyno 9.0]

Red99 running like a well oiled machine. No changes needed.

[Giovanni]

Priority

Yellow Text - I agree that yellow text would be an easy change and good for server.

Resists - I would like to add to this point that there is a considerable amount of low level griefing caused by root always landing. The majority of the low level pvp that I have encountered involved either myself getting rooted while kiting mobs and taking pve exp loss or my target dying in the same fashion. The amount of MR needed to resist root could scale up based upon level.

Exp rate - Keep the server accessible to the fully employed older folk with limited play time. It's nice being able to login and pvp all night instead of trying to use your limited play time to grind.

Secondary

Leaderboard - I would prefer a zone control map (based upon guilds controlling zones) to a leader board. It recognizes team play rather than the individual and discourages griefing.

[Itap]

Remove experience loss from pvp. Playing mostly on pve servers during my EQ career (2000-2007) experience loss for pvp encounters discourages me. Grinding to max level sucks enough, why make it even harder? PVP should liven the EQ experience, not make it harder

[Littlegyno 9.0]

Wow, who the fuck deleted my post history.

I am crushed.

[Nirgon]

Honestly I can be pretty concise.

I want the dev (whoever he, she or they may be) to come here and clearly say "here's what I will work on and be open to" and "here's what isn't happening".

For instance Nilbog and Rogean, or just Rogean, or whoever posts a sticky: "I will not be looking at resists" or "I will never consider item loot for this server". We've already heard "I will not wipe the box" -- which was pretty effective. I know for a fact no matter what happens here, no wipe.

Next, I personally still believe the intention is for a classic pvp ffa server. For FFA that is a Rallos Zek server. Other people disagree. However, its not my server or any other nonadmin's posting here. We can end a lot of disputes with that being clearly stated and that is that there is no intention to try and model the Rallos Zek server directly.

The other is things like mage bolts through walls or the bond of death icon not appearing on players. Some people are actually in favor of things like this. Hence my next point. If the server owner wants a true classic EQ server? Stop listening to these people. Things like invis pulling also have no place and it is discouraging to see so many people try to defend it, it is ridiculous. At the very least we do need an answer for the planning and time line to deal with things like this. The bond of death issue thread has no responses.

As far as YT has gone? I've gotten by just fine with hitting the screen shot button. That's how it worked. Now if they want another VZTZ box with fast xp and yellow text? And 90% of the population wants it? Fine, say no more. I think a leader board is classic (for Sullon Zek) and has many more benefits than just YT. It settles arguments before they even start for the most part and generates page hits for the site owners. Win/win, existed on a classic server. I personally didn't come here for another VZTZ box.

I'd also like to make this next statement objectively and not as a doom sayer or troll:
What is the plan if the box population hits and stays at 0 for a while? Big if, but just curious. I think the answer is that it just stays how it is.

[Lazortag]

There should be no exp penalty on pvp deaths. I'd get into detail but I often notice that the more intelligent a post is on this forum, the less attention it gets.

[Sirken]

I'd get into detail but I often notice that the more intelligent a post is on this forum, the less attention it gets.

and we (the staff) want the same from you. give me the most detailed, specific, precise version of your ideas and suggestions.

if they really are important to you, then everyone should be able to take 5-10 minutes to actually write them out with specific details, examples, etc. i promise no post will be ignored by me on the grounds of TLDR. if you take the time to write it, i promise you I'll take the time to read it.

<3

A+ Job

[Nirgon]

I'm also in favor of xp loss being removed, say you're naked on your way to your corpse and no gear to defend yourself? You lose 20minutes of xping.

However, I think there should be SOME penalty for a death. That's what seperates this game from WoW and its many copy-paste clones.

I'd rather there was an xp penalty than no penalty at all.

[Giovanni]

In lieu of exp loss, deaths in pve or pvp could result in a res effect like debuff (20minutes?). This will enable individuals to actively pvp without worrying about exp loss.

At the same time, it will help discourage bindrushing.

[Lazortag]

A+ Job

What can be said that hasn't been said already in various other threads? It promotes bind camping, discourages pvp, and is a major source of frustration for players who exp slowly. It never bothered me because I played a solo class, but it adds insult to injury for classes that can't solo and players that don't know how to exp effectively. There's also a chilling effect on anyone saying that exp loss bothers them because everyone will call them a "pussy" and ridicule them for exping too slowly/dying too much.

Those are some of the harms. Let's talk about the benefits. Does it discourage bind rushing? Careful if you answer "yes", because then you have to concede that the penalty is significant for some players. I feel it doesn't do any more to discourage bind rushing than respawning oom already does, which is probably why it was never needed on any classic server. Does it punish people for dying? Sure, but dying already does that - being teleported to your bind point, losing your camp, losing all your coin, and having it broadcast to the server that you've just lost a fight is punishment enough.

[jeffd]

yellow text, so that the server feels slightly less like a completely empty wasteland.

[gloinz]

taking out xp loss will
a) make it 100% more likely i'll root you and let the mob finish you off **** = 10x worse xp loss
b) make it so that there is no reason for me to stop zerg rushing you while ur fighting mobs/raid bosses
c) make me more likely to corpse camp bc us pvp champs need you to feel some sting naw mean

[Rushmore]

EXPERIENCE 1-35/40/45 Should be easy. Maybe even 1-50. Why do we want people to grind solo to 50? We need to create more and more new players! (Basically get them to the level they can group with 60's) Keep 45/50-60 classic xp. Make pvp enable at all levels post 45. This will also drive more numbers to fight the mass zerg that everyone cry's about. /salute Nihilum. Hell make 50-60 x2 harder! But everyone on the server should be 45-60 or 50-60. So we all can duke it out! This is PVP server. (I have access to a druid currently I can get a toon to 35 in about 2 hours but most can not. Let's make it an even playing field)

If you want to create somewhat of a time sink.... create it in loots not grinding xp! Searyx some shit! Lev cloak is sooo easy. /example

Maybe make disciplines drop able. I also loved this in VZTZ

Make Naggy/Vox open to all level raiders. Just makes sense. More epic fights. Stop the potential poopsock. Currently I assume on a 50-100 server these mobs are up and not dying!?!? Sirken this was a good thing on VZTZ. Even if you won't agree buff Naggy and Vox to Kunark clones.

Ban anyone that talks about item loot.

If someone /q's /exit's or plugs make the penalty significant. Like 10mins. See Tarwine's Altergate

Also liked the way he set up the forums. Your forum name was your character name. You couldn't hide or troll people behind an alias.

ADD Yellowtext!

Leaderboard is not necessary just leads to more poopsocking and bad behavior.

I like the statistics that Rogean is thinking about

PEOPLE that cry about resists don't know shit. People that have tested it have come to the truth that it takes 10-20 times to root anyone. Just because one snare lands on someone doesn't mean it's the end of the world. If you wanna adjust it adjust it more. But this is the least of our problems. Jeebus let's create some pvp before we cry about it. Currently pvp is happening about once a month.

XP loss in PVP has been one of the best things this server ever did. Never saw a raid of people constantly dying to a cause they couldn't win because that know they are just suffering more for it. When someone wins in EQ it should amount to something! Especially in raids! It should hurt to get your ass kicked in fear and you shouldn't just try again because you got nothing to lose. Or you have no life and can out poopsock

[Kevynne]

[QUOTE=SamwiseBanned;724145]

Priority

Yellow Text - People want it, it attracts pvp, much lols will be had. The few things I took away from my LoZ experience was this. It really was fun and it even made grinding more enjoyable knowing someone is getting their asses kicked. Ultimately this game is for entertainment and no other feature entertains more than YT.

Resists - Must stay true to providing a balanced resist system over a classic one. Classic resists were built around the game being new and a lot of things where unknown/undiscovered. It was also built around a bigger population size and the availability of resist gear. No way in hell did they expect more than half the population to be decked out in blue diamond gear by Kunark. I am not saying the current system doesn't need a little tweak here and there but not at the expense of every melee being John Rambo with a few pieces of MR gear.


Secondary (please don't judge me, I am merely throwing things out there)

Leaderboard - I think leaderboard coupled with incentives is a great way to encourage pvp. Similiar to diablo II ladder, we would have "seasons." The person with the most kills at the end of the season would receive and in-game title he would wear until the next season is over then the next winner receives the title. Gives those solo pvpers something to work for.

One More Red Guide - One more guide/gm for red would be nice. Again nothing that would make me quit if it didn't happen but would definitely be appreciated by those who have waited days for assistance. Not that you aren't on everyday but its easy to miss Sirken by an hour or two multiple days in a row.

Increase PvP Rez Timer - The victors of a pvp encounter should be able to rez the dead (assuming they have a cleric ofc.) It would allow the victors to maintain zone control and reimburse the xp lost to their teammates. This will also encourage people to be civil so that should they lose a major battle, they can ask the victors to rez and scoot.


Would like to add Group Experience to priorities;
CrystalBlue has said this alot but it's very true
take all current 50-60 xp bonus and funnel that into a grouping bonus so 50-60 get 100% xp and lets say full group gets [100%+ (#of players in group x5)]+xp bonus(es)+ ZEMs

Would also like to add to controcersial: Item Loot
May I suggest running a beta were item loot is allowed, and then have all who played on beta VOTE to let item loot in and such. It would work like how it worked on RZ basically. and too keep the bluebs here maybe limit item loot to say 1-3 items depending on lvl range?

Also to Controversial: No drops being tradeable
Now this i KNOW is not classic and doesn't sound like any sense; but they had it on VZ/TZ and it kinda changed the economy abit; since lvl 1s could wear planar loot and therefore it drove prices of OTHER gears that were pricey if the said planar/no trade items were tradeable plummet and allow lowbies who are poor (like myself) to better gear themselves without having to be a raiding guild/person

AND would liek to add to Secondary: Hot Zones
Hot Zones would make this game=
easier to level with groups/friends
encourage PVP in zones
make unpopulated zones populated for a short time
in the 3rd point sense i would say change hot points bi weekly-monthly maybe even weekly?

[Rushmore]

Controversial

FFA Rules/No GM Intervention - Too much rule lawyering and he said/she said bs. There were times pre-Kunark when we decided not to port up to planes to pvp for fear of accidently training the opposition then being banned. I've seen both sides train (not in a few months) during Naggy pvp but I wasn't pro enough to keep FRAPs running 24/7. My point is training is something you cannot enforce 24/7. We have xp loss which is straight outta the SZ playbook so its not too crazy to say we need a FFA server. I wasn't going to mention names but this is common server knowledge that Slathar repeatedly trained people on a daily basis. I have no clue how he managed to sweet talk his way out of dozens of petitions but he did. Let us pvp without having to worry about one pathing kobold training the entire zone.

Note: I will be editing the hell out of this until I get it right and as I add more stuff. I think everyone should keep their suggests to one post unless you get locked out of editing it.

Did not read this but I hopefully know what it said. No one pays anyone to police this server so let the server police itself. It worked a long time ago. It could work again.

[Rushmore]

Also to Controversial: No drops being tradeable
Now this i KNOW is not classic and doesn't sound like any sense; but they had it on VZ/TZ and it kinda changed the economy abit; since lvl 1s could wear planar loot and therefore it drove prices of OTHER gears that were pricey if the said planar/no trade items were tradeable plummet and allow lowbies who are poor (like myself) to better gear themselves without having to be a raiding guild/person

AND would liek to add to Secondary: Hot Zones
Hot Zones would make this game=
easier to level with groups/friends
encourage PVP in zones
make unpopulated zones populated for a short time
in the 3rd point sense i would say change hot points bi weekly-monthly maybe even weekly?

only for 40-60. Keep it easy to level to that level range. But would agree if so. No sense in making Crushbone a hotzone when no one cares. It's like an NFL sunday with the Packers having no one to play with. Let's get it going.........

[Nirgon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2bCO6tr7Zw

^ Where I see this thread going

Me = Jeff Goldblum

[SearyxTZ]

i've been reading many, many pvp threads. and quite honestly, they are pathetic. most people (not all) like to blame the staff yet fail to realize that they are their own biggest enemies, and their own biggest roadblocks (ie: wanting a bigger pop, then griefing players off the server). however, if u really want to continue to blame the staff, i'll gladly make Rogean apologize for providing the most legit EQpvp server that has ever graced the EQEmu project.



Sirken it's not that I don't agree with you or sympathize (I do), but ultimately it is on the server op to make it work -- assuming that's what he is trying to accomplish. If his playerbase is a bunch of loudmouthed griefers, well.... then that's what he has to work with. You aren't going to change the way they act. Not saying it's fair or right.

If you're looking to gather feedback objectively, then block out the white noise and just identify when the majority of your players are all complaining about the same thing. Polls actually do a good job of providing this.

You say they don't matter because this isn't a democracy, to which I'd ask you in total seriousness: what is it then? What is your (Rogean's) goal in running this server? Are you aiming to create something successful that will appeal to the largest number of potential players? Are you running your own vision of red EQ? Are you trying to emulate Rallos Zek right down to the fine details? Are you trying to compromise the old Zek servers with something that might actually be palatable in 2012 with a drastically reduced population? What do you want to accomplish here?

This server has never had a clear identity or mission statement. It needs one.

From a player perspective, and you won't like hearing this, but I greatly preferred VZTZ and thought it was truer to the old red servers. PvP is just too damn hard to get into here. Same old problem: too many zones, too little players. VZTZ circumvented this with a quick level grind (but classic/slow item grind), so everyone was mostly going to be in the same handful of high level zones. Broadcasts helped too.

I'd suggest one thing above everything else that is tagging a single centrally-located zone as a hotzone (I'd suggest Lake of Ill omen). It is an absolute no-brainer to provide that kind of funneling when you're working with 120 zones and 60 players. It might bring some casual players back and "mid level pvp" would actually be a thing that exists.


That said, even with hotzones, I still don't think that classic 100+ zone model really works particularly well in 2012. I think the # of zones has to be smaller, and I've personally always hated FFA over teams. Teams adds a lot more dimension to the concept of zone control and I think diminishes the negative effect of one guild ruling them all under a FFA ruleset. Easier on casuals, too.

[SearyxTZ]

And before someone throws "counterstrike with elves at me", that's not it. The PvE grind can be endless for all I care, so long as players are actively fighting over it and interacting with eachother every step of the way. It's all about player interaction.

I just can't deal with the solo grinding pve thing. I know I'm not the only one in that boat.

[jdklaw]

Yellowtext

and Dungeon queu, maybe even raid queues down the road, but thats just way far in the future, maybe just start workin on the infrastructure for it

[Supreme]

Yellow Text is too easy to abuse. Put a level cap on Yellow Text PVP or Yellow Text PVP that happens in FFA raid zones.

Do not remove the PVP exp penalty unless you plan to limit binding to city zones only.

Leave XP with +50% bonus for as long as needed.

Leave item loot OUT. Coin is bad enough for alot of people.


The server is truly carebear enough but some tuning would not hurt.

[jdklaw]

Yellow Text is too easy to abuse. Put a level cap on Yellow Text PVP or Yellow Text PVP that happens in FFA raid zones.


how is it abused? lvl cap?

[SearyxTZ]

Yeah I didn't understand that post at all.

[SamwiseBanned]

I think he is saying put a level cap on YT because noone wants to get spammed by a few lowbies fighting at orc hill for 3 hours (I think)

OR limit YT pvp deaths taken in raid zones

I guess he's afraid YT will become more like spam if its going off every 2 min (I think)

edit: not in favor of limited YT, merely translating Supremes post

[jdklaw]

I think he is saying put a level cap on YT because noone wants to two people log on alts and spam kill each other in order to spam YT (I think)

OR limit YT to raid zones

I guess he's afraid YT will become more like spam if its going off every 2 min (I think)

thats just silly

[SamwiseBanned]

I revised my translation after consulting my english to taco dictionary. I guess I could see it being abused if two people intentionally killed each other over and over but nothing that cant be fixed by moving YT to a seperate window

[Dullah]

All I want for christmas is a Classic EQ pvp server that actually mirrors the mechanics of Classic EQ. Anything that deviates from classic EQ, should be fixed to work as closely to classic EQ live servers did.

The things that were nerfed in classic EQ, should be nerfed here (often in advance -- ex. egg-shaped pumice, item recharges). The things that were "fixed" there, should be fixed here. If you cast a spell and it does 100 damage in classic live servers, it should do 100 damage here. If you resist a spell at 70mr in classic live, it should be the same here. Lastly, if you absolutely must change something to work "better" than it did in 1999-2001, please at least consult with the population to make sure 90% of them aren't against that change.

We came here to play Classic EQ pvp. You can't go wrong or be gainsaid when you stick to what's classic.

[SearyxTZ]

I want less zones since Verant designed their 100 zone servers for 2000 people and we don't really have that going on here. Probably 1 player per 10 square miles. It's like being in west Texas, or one big West Karana.

[Vayder]

I’d like an overhaul to the spell resist system that did two things:

1) Use current Lucy spell data for pvpresistbase, pvpresistcap, and pvpresistcalc
2) Add a +50% debuff bonus to pvp resist debuffs

I believe this brings a number of positive changes:

• Debuffs matter – currently very little emphasis is made on tash, mala, malo, curtailing chant, etc. I rarely see anyone pumice, pillage, etc. buffs. But with the above changes debuffs become an important part of pvp and as a result…
• Rewards coordinated tactics – the above system makes it likely to see in mass pvp an enchanter tash a target, a mage mala the target, and then call for a shaman to malo the target. The order of the spells matters! Each debuff is peeling a layer of defense off the target but taking coordinated tactics and a mix of classes to do so.
• Enlarges spell books in pvp – my initial reaction to a system like the above was that it would make many spells useless, hearing the word “immune” tends to grant that impression. However, what I discovered after looking at the numbers at great length was that “immunity” is always conditional and actually diversifies the spells cast in pvp. Instead of spamming the same spells over and over it forces players to use debuffs, to cast fire, cold, or magic spells based on what the target is resisting, etc.
• Makes level difference matter – if you’re being cast on by a player that’s 8 levels higher than you they’re going to have a much easier time getting spells to land.
• Transparent spell data – every player has access to spell data and to how that spell data effects resists. As a result you can make goals for your resist gear set and plan your spell lineup and tactics with known information.

How would this work?

Example #1 – Root
Pvpresistbase = 50
Pvpresistcap = 33
Pvpresistcalc = 101

Pvpresistbase is the number you start with if you’re the same level as the caster. Pvpresistcap is the number you start with if you are the max levels (8) below the caster. Pvpresistcalc is the number you need to beat to outright resist the spell.

So if you’re the same level as the player casting root on you, if you have 51mr you would be “immune” to root. Sounds like resist gear is pointless then right? Now imagine your resist magic is pumiced and you’re tashed first. Now you need 111mr unbuffed to be “immune” to root. However, if they bring a mage and you’re mala’d as well – you’re going to need 163mr to be “immune” to root.

So “immunity” isn’t quite the steel curtain some might think at first glance. The value of vanilla root fluctuates with the tactics the casters choose to employ.

Example #2 – Fetter
Pvpresistbase = 12
Pvpresistcap = -49
Pvpresistcalc = 135

Assuming you’re the same level as the caster you start with 12 and need 135 to outright resist Fetter. Thus, 123mr would make you immune to this higher level root. That’s fairly obtainable via gear and buffs. However, if they strip your resist magic this is a hard to reach number but feasible for the ability to be “immune.”

But now assume the enchanter tashes you. You’ll now need 183mr unbuffed to be “immune.” I highly doubt many folks will be rocking that number. If they bring a mage to mala you’ll need 235mr to be “immune”.

So as can be seen in the case of the root line, “immunity” isn’t exactly immunity and the values needed scale with levels / gear.

Example #3

Draught of Ice
Pvpresistbase = 12
Pvpresistcap = -31
Pvpresistcalc = 135

Draught of Fire
Pvpresistbase = 22
Pvpresistcap = -16
Pvpresistcalc = 134

Assuming same level as caster you’d need 123cr to be “immune” to DoI and 112fr to be “immune” to DoF. If you’re mala’d that makes it 175cr and 164fr. You’ve got a choice to make: do I wear fire or do I wear cold? The wizard has a choice to make – if he spams cold over and over and you’re rocking 175cr or close to it he’ll burn his bar quick. When he swaps to fire you can choose to do likewise and the games can continue. Now swapping gear midfight becomes a part of strategy as you have clear values needed not only to resist MR spells but also CR, FR, PR, and DR.

But that’s not classic!

I know. Unfortunately we don’t have access to classic spell data for pvpresistbase, pvpresistcap, and pvpresistcalc. However this is the system classic used and Lucy provides the only complete set of spell data for all classic spells that I’m aware of. By using current Lucy data as the standard all of the “well I remember it this way…” arguments are avoided. We have cold hard numbers to go by as our standard from this point forward and those numbers were made by EQ developers rather than some cooked up values from our best guesses.

[ekblue]

Red99 running like a well oiled machine. No changes needed.

[hagard]

Twat da fuk did burrito supreme say???


But srsly


Resists need to adjusted
Yellow text implemented
& the current pop needs to stop being such blubies.
K tks

[hagard]

Resists aren't fine.
On live blind didn't land. Unless you had wrapped entropy spine with the pr based blind.
Druids never used nukes because they wouldn't land.
Wizards only used lures.
I wasn't whirled once on live(not sure if that's still a prob)
You didn't have to be full resist gear to resist cc spells.
I'm sure and your bro samwise never played live because you guys sound clueless

[Cwall 4.0]

hotzones
and/or exp bonus
remove hybrid penalties
classic resists
YT
leaderboard
dev communication

prob not going to get that last one since rogaine only comes around to say things like "lel i am such an epikkkk trolle lol i got u guys so good posting about playing star wars arnt i so funny xDDDD" when in fact he actually did let this server crash and burn from playing star wars

[Yukahwa]

I think a PVP info board with a 30 minute or even a 1 or 2 hour delay would be ideal. It could basically show a ton of battle details on any battle that results in a death.

I think it could feasibly show the following

1. who got the kill shot
2. all who was involved in doing dmg to the player, and % of dmg dealt. It should differentiate between melee and non-melee damage
3. who was involved in assisting those in number 2, and how

Basically every time a battle went down, a story would be told. It could be an hour delayed, or even two hours, or even 12 hours, but it would tell a story and would put an end to (or change the nature of) the kind of smack talk the players on this server put out.

Battles that don't result in a death wouldn't be covered. Everyone knows that when people say "Lol u ran!" they are really saying "Dang, he got away because I'm not good enough at EQ pvp" so overlooking those non death engagements is no problemo.

Here is an example battle

"Gloinzz killshotted Soandso at 9:00PM PST in City of Mist"
"Gloinz dealt 628 damage to Soandso"
"Gloinzz did 100% of pvp damage dealt to Soandso"
"Player X buffed Soandso at 8:17PM"
"Player Y buffed Soandso at 8:03 PM"

This battle log tells a story about a time when Gloinzz zoned into CoM, killed a groups MT, and left.

The PVP board system will also benefit group PVP. It shows clearly the less amazing 1 shot kills of that type of PKer, which is nice..but it will also detail embarrassing battles when one entire group is totally stomped on by another group, and how it went down.

I think PVE hotspots would also be a worthwhile thing to try. Certain zones would be EXP boosted which would draw PVE guys, Griefers, and people that hate that particular group of griefers.

The very very very most important thing is that the server feels alive. The fact that regen items are still non functional on this server makes the server feel completely dead, forsaken, and abandoned. This drives players away big time. No one will spend time playing on a server that is looking more and more like a ghost town every day.

For example: the front page read "Kunark Postponed" for like two weeks after kunark was released on red. Thats a great way to essentially snub a potential shot of vitality for the server. If on the front page, p99 staff made it look like things were happening on red, people might want to give it a shot.

One sure way to make the server feel alive is to put the kill board on the front page permanently, or a small killboard highlights box with a link to the more detailed killboard. This would make bored bluebies jealous every day, because it becomes more and more obvious that playing blue means you are missing out on a hugely exciting dynamic of everquest.

As far as the EXP bonus is..well most people will complain about EXP anyways. I suggest the current EXP bonus for soloing, and an extra bonus for any group. Some people make full groups. Nothing too fast of course. Grinding is a big part of the game and its important that everyone is afraid of deaths.

Except PVP deaths. EXP loss is not necessary. Maybe make the boot slot always lootable so people can steal each others shoes. Even make new in game quests for PVP only shoes with funny names and attributes. To counteract lamers that keep their feet slot empty, if the foot slot is empty, one of any item can be looted, to discourage weak sauce behavior. Maybe not exactly this..but something like this is an idea that will make pvp more fun for everyone.

Training should always be against the rules. Evil players that train should always be banned eventually. Some trains are accidental. Accidental trains don't happen every night. All of the possessions of confirmed trainers should be given to the families of the individuals that were victimized before the account is banned permanently. Harsh punishments means people will think twice before resulting to weak sauce PVP tactics. GM's will be sure a ban is appropriate when someone accumulates a noteworthy train history accompanied by consistent reports of negative behavior.

[nabsev]

1. Yellow Text
2. Yellow Text
3. Yellow Text

[Pudge]

1. yellow text, world-wide, zone info included. Why: gives everybody a piece of the action. makes server feel more alive. deters bind camping? (mostly). lets ppl know the truth about who is killing who. gives the glory of PVP to the victor. cons: might make ppl feel embarrassed if they got killed, which could deter them from playing on the server. however, this is a PVP server; you gonna die sometime. it happens.

2. keep a high exp rate - the +50% seems good at 50+. below level 46 it should be an additional +25% (so +75%, in addition to the scaling exp bonus that applies as you level). i was one of the ppl who championed shit-slow exp, thinking it would deter hackers because their accounts would get deleted. but i was wrong, the hack detection on this box is so good that... NO ONE HACKS. so there is no reason to keep the grind so dire. - also publicize how easy the exp is, letting blue players log on red as a breath of fresh air and knowing they can level quickly. ppl have jobs etc. they can't devote their entire lives to classic EQ grind. some ppl try, then burn out.

3. remove pvp exp loss. i like it but a lot of ppl don't. they want to be able to afk/fall asleep at the keyboard. BUT if you remove exp loss, there still must be a penalty for dying/bind rushing. so there should be, as someone else mentioned above, a res-timer type effect. I'd say it should be a 20 minute timer which renders you "frozen" - motionless, immune to pvp, unable to cast any spells, etc., but still able to speak in OOC. but also include a spam-filter if ppl putting out too many lines of text.
^^edit: unless you got resed. and keep a 30 minute res timer on PVP corpses.

4. keep global OOC.

5. resists.. i dont know about resists. i would keep them the way they are right now, except to make it easier to get partials on nukes? havent really tested it

6. playerbase has to not be douchetastic to anyone new. ppl ask "what is a good solo class that can also pvp on this server" answers: rogue, warrior, etc. come on ppl... you WANT to have some challengers, right? why are you here?

[Yukahwa]

You are right that there should be some consequence to PVP. Maybe the leaderboard would be enough. I'm a fan of rallos zek style item loot (single item not bagged not held or range slot) and all coin. But besides that, maybe just make bind rushing bannable and then the PVP board can be reward enough for good PVP encounters.

[JayDee]

leaderboard turns most people off (almost single handedly put vztz down for the count at one point) and it is always exploitable

[lite]

a limit on how many times a player can zone back and forth in a certain period of time would be great. zone ponging I do not believe was meant to be a form of defense...
aka, if you zone between 2 zones more than 6 times in less than 2 minutes and you were just engaged in pvp, you should be temporarily unable to continue zoning. either plug, or fight. I am not absolutely certain on what the limit should be, but if the server is detecting that you are spending less than a second before zoning again, and you've done this consecutively. place a cap.

[Smedy]

Priorities:

1 Yellow text.

2. Bump up group experience by atleast a 100% (to encourage grouping, no one wants to group with me even though i'm actually an "Ok" class for dps, cuz i suck down the xp to much from their solo shit.)

3. Bump the resists curve for crowd control spells in pvp such as root, snare, stuns. Don't think any changes are needed for dots,nukes.

4. Keep doing what you do, eventually server will grow, there's a dip right now due to GW2.

5. Summon a Tstaff to my inventory.

[JenJen]

Get rid of hybrid penalties. encourage grouping, with any group makeup. keep xp bonus. yellow text.

[Yukahwa]

leaderboard turns most people off (almost single handedly put vztz down for the count at one point) and it is always exploitable

Maybe dont make it a leader board, just an hourly or 2 hourly updated PVP records board..not showing highest kills or whatever, just showing battle details. Shouldn't be exploitable.

[Tradesonred]

i've been reading many, many pvp threads. and quite honestly, they are pathetic. most people (not all) like to blame the staff yet fail to realize that they are their own biggest enemies, and their own biggest roadblocks (ie: wanting a bigger pop, then griefing players off the server). however, if u really want to continue to blame the staff, i'll gladly make Rogean apologize for providing the most legit EQpvp server that has ever graced the EQEmu project.


Im glad devs made the effort to make this server happen.

With that out of the way, you cant blame the players for griefing people off the server.

Thats like giving someone whos not quite all there in the head a big shiny knife and saying "but dont hurt anyone with it, ok?"

Its partly some people's fault but it didnt help that you gave em the tools to grief.

Server should have been no xp loss and item loot. Yeah it would have been painful a bit until people wrap their heads around the concept of being naked, but would have been like rallos.
Lots of casters, and melees the ones that can roll with a crew. Coulda done some events where no drop gear dropped, like what happened on Rallos. These events in turn would have created organic pvp content that didnt require rigid awkward blubie duel stuff like amelinda did as people would have fought over event mobs.

By trying to customize with xp loss, they created a load of other problems (the xp loss griefing, a pvp server where people dont pvp... much, the people who will never ever lose their gear edge, unkillable low lvl twinks that even if u get 4 noobs together and kill em 4v1 they dont lose gear, people owning raid zones for months unchallenged, casuals getting xplosslulz zerged off the server by gank squads when server launched, no economy for low lvl gear, not being able to have strictly pvp low lvl alt twinks unless you wanna keep grinding PVE for multiple alts)

Not going to bother with a detailed xp loss rant since I havent seen a dev come to the forum and explain the rationale behind it beside "we dont want counterstrike EQ" and bother giving any sort of feedback to people on my side of the argument. (We really do need a "this will never happen, this might happen" stickied somewhere)

Problem is they dont play the box, lacking perspective of putting the time in and understand why it is people do not pvp and didnt analyze the feedback some players like me gave em on a silver platter. I know i can be ranty sometimes but i do provide feedback and its the server's loss if you cant take the feedback because people said it in a pissy way. Your job as a pro should be to get the feedback even if its done in a ranty way, though it wouldnt hurt to be able to give level headed pro feedback either.

Problem is they designed the box for PVEers first in mind (pvp xp loss poopsock camp control mechanic) with regular, often occuring pvp an afterthought.

Problem is they got trolled by Zerg PVEers and Griefers into thinking this was a good direction for a pvp server

[Doors]

yellow text
Remove hybrid penalties

OR

up experience gains

Maybe a leaderboard.

[mitic]

hybrid penalty on a server where u have to search for groups doesn't help at all to improve the pop. this would also be an incentive for blues to play on red

yellow text is a nobrainer and should have been active since server start

pvp-exp loss helps to keep the "I don't care being pkd" mentality low.

TLDR:

.) remove hybrid penalty on red completely

.) yellow text

.) leave pvp exp loss as is

[karsten]

I agree with Smedy and Supreme

someone make me a meatball taco and stop deleting my posts

[karsten]

as kind of a follow up to that, also, I wanted to emphasize that incentives to grouping (xp bumps for groups) will help the longterm stability of the server more than a straight xp bonus will.

YT of course, do it like mike

removing hybrid penalty is super important but that's less of a "how do we make red specifically better" and more of a "how do we make eq in general better" issue

[karsten]

nah i think it's just sirken being overly vigilant and erring on the side of caution to make sure the thread stays civil, i can't get mad at my dawg for that

[RoguePhantom]

Priorities:

1) Yellow Text
2) Hot Zones

[Sirken]

nah i think it's just sirken being overly vigilant and erring on the side of caution to make sure the thread stays civil, i can't get mad at my dawg for that

yes

any posts that arent about ways to improve the server are being deleted. people that shit up the thread are getting suspended.

[Dullah]

I think we could all agree that hybrid penalties could go. On a low pop server, they struggle too much to level and find groups. Lot of people gonna discriminate when groups are scarce.

[Nizzarr]

Resists:

I would like a test run with classic resists. I am not a fan of the "everything lands unless you have disturbing amount of resists" way of things. I believe the lucy value are fine and would make a good base. They're as close to classic as I can remember.

Along with those, a +50% bonus to resists debuffs(Tash, malo, insidious decay, scents,mala) would be in order.

Yellow text:

I am pretty indifferent to yellow text, but if it would energize the server I am all for it.

Leaderboards:

I am pretty indifferent to a leaderboard, but if it would energize the server I am all for it.

Mission statement:

I believe that would be needed. As searyx said, What do the devs want? What are they aiming to provide? our suggestions can and should be only based on what the devs really want/want to provides.

Exp loss in pvp:

I am all for removing the exp loss in pvp, anything that would make people want to pvp more. Melees and casters should respawns with 50% health and no mana if that would happen.

Binding:

I would love to try a "binding in city only" environment.

Grouping up exp bonus:

I believe a small +25-50%(scaling on number of people in group,25% for 4, 37% for 5, 50% for 6) exp bonus for having more than 3 members in your group would probably entice people to group more. This server needs more player-to-player interaction.


May add things later.

[runlvlzero]

Could write a TLDR post but that would be TLDR. I'll keep it short and simple.

Priority

Yellow Text - People want it, it attracts pvp, much lols will be had. The few things I took away from my LoZ experience was this. It really was fun and it even made grinding more enjoyable knowing someone is getting their asses kicked. Ultimately this game is for entertainment and no other feature entertains more than YT.

Resists - Must stay true to providing a balanced resist system over a classic one. Classic resists were built around the game being new and a lot of things where unknown/undiscovered. It was also built around a bigger population size and the availability of resist gear. No way in hell did they expect more than half the population to be decked out in blue diamond gear by Kunark. I am not saying the current system doesn't need a little tweak here and there but not at the expense of every melee being John Rambo with a few pieces of MR gear.

Secondary (please don't judge me, I am merely throwing things out there)

Leaderboard - I think leaderboard coupled with incentives is a great way to encourage pvp. Similiar to diablo II ladder, we would have "seasons." The person with the most kills at the end of the season would receive and in-game title he would wear until the next season is over then the next winner receives the title. Gives those solo pvpers something to work for.

One More Red Guide - One more guide/gm for red would be nice. Again nothing that would make me quit if it didn't happen but would definitely be appreciated by those who have waited days for assistance. Not that you aren't on everyday but its easy to miss Sirken by an hour or two multiple days in a row.

Increase PvP Rez Timer - The victors of a pvp encounter should be able to rez the dead (assuming they have a cleric ofc.) It would allow the victors to maintain zone control and reimburse the xp lost to their teammates. This will also encourage people to be civil so that should they lose a major battle, they can ask the victors to rez and scoot.

Controversial

No Rules/No GM Intervention - Too much rule lawyering and he said/she said bs. There were times pre-Kunark when we decided not to port up to planes to pvp for fear of accidently training the opposition then being banned. I've seen both sides train (not in a few months) during Naggy pvp but I wasn't pro enough to keep FRAPs running 24/7. My point is training is something you cannot enforce 24/7. We have xp loss which is straight outta the SZ playbook so its not too crazy to say we need a FFA server. I wasn't going to mention names but this is common server knowledge that Slathar repeatedly trained people on a daily basis. I have no clue how he managed to sweet talk his way out of dozens of petitions but he did. Let us pvp without having to worry about one pathing kobold training the entire zone.

Hard-coded Teams - I saw Seary say something so I just had to add it to my collection of suggestions. Above all else, this would be the best change for me. However I browse the forums daily and know this is not what a lot of people want. I'll keep this as a suggestion and add more to it later but yeah, I would totally leave for a less populated server if it had hard-coded teams.

Note: I will be editing the hell out of this until I get it right and as I add more stuff. I think everyone should keep their suggests to one post unless you get locked out of editing it.

All this I can agree with seems pretty sane and in perspective. Some thing to build more teams, but not divide the player base. I dunno some way to make people be able to be happy about the pvp. YT - leaderboard would help some.

Teams, would be nice, or at least guilds not taking AoE dmg from eachother maybe.

FFA rules in the FFA zones that are not level restricted. People going there should be prepared for anything. All kinds of sneaky tactics and interesting ways to tip the scales on the other side. People should be more careful about networks and how they approach content in those areas. Right now its almost like people dont bother playing cat and mouse to kill a dragon etc...

A really out there idea would be non classic spawntimes for names/mobs/raid content randomising it or anything to make it upredictable. Because even in pvp ... the levels and loot matters to some degree and give a reason for the fight/competition beyond RP (which doesnt really happen in this community).

More xp for grouping, less for soloing. Also - hybrid penalties going away may help with groups some.

[Herb9]

1) Leaderboard (I've died 3xpvp in the history of the server and not once since april so my kdr would be right at the top, pvp doesn't mean enough, this adds substance)

2)Hybrid xp penalty removed

3) Remove rules from pvp, maintain xp loss on death. Do everything with proper buffs and be prepared at all times or you deserve to be punished.

4) hot zones - awesome. encourage the strongest to hold the zone, and always have a spot to hit if you are lookin for pvp. the CTF of EQ.

[Pudge]

i'm a hybrid and dont think the penalty should be removed. that is classic eq.

what it should be is a bigger bonus to the group when ppl join up, so that hybrids are more welcome.


also hot zones, and for the lower levels, maybe even transportation to the hot zone? i think one of the most important things is getting ppl who make new chars and have no friends to stay. so if everyone on the server level 1-20 was in Field of bone leveling, they could meet and mingle..

FoB hotzone + translocators? (only port you to and from FoB if you are level 20 and below)? the reason i say translocator is just so newbs can go back to town and get their spells as they level.. but this brings me to another thing about vztz that worked: remember the spell vendors? vendors for every spell levels 1-20 all standing together in town, 20-40 in Sro, 40-50 in Kith (i think this was the way it was) made it very easy to get your spells.. just pop down to Sro and pick them up. ANYWAY, the point of bringing that up was.. if FoB were to be the new "newb-town-central" similar spell vendors could be set up somewhere outside.

i doubt you guys would do the FoB thing because it's not classic but just throwing out ideas to get ppl together. also higher levels would frequent the zone and drop off goodies (weapons, armor etc.) to the low levels there. and could /shout information to the levels below 10. we just really need to get ppl together and making friends. bigger grouping exp bonus would help that too. if FoB central happened, maybe make LOIO also hot zone. don't know about kurns, but heck throw that in there too

[CrystalBlue]

As a very very longtime red EQ player and someone who is very active ingame on this server I would suggest the following:

EXP:

1. Keep the scaleing low level xp bonus to help out lowbies trying to get closer to 50

2. The flat rate serverwide xp bonus should go away, replaced with a scaleing grouping bonus. What keeps people playing the game is in-game relationships and friendships. You dont form those when you solo to max level. The xp bonus on the server should be in the form of grouping bonus ONLY. The larger the group, the bigger the bonus. Groups desperatly need this anyways, as by their nature they are less efficient for xp then solos or duos and FAR less convinient.

3. All class based xp malus (hybrid,monk,etc) should be SELF only, not shared with the group. Currently this malus is a big determent to grouping. Hybrids do have their advantages so keeping it self only is appropriate.

4. Keep the pvp xp loss on death. It serves many good functions, includeing forceing people to continue to xp and group up and "be out there" (outside of raids) in the world to regain some buffer xp from time to time. This is a good thing for the server's health.

YellowText/Leaderboard:

1. Yellowtext could be fun, but only without location given. Let the community decide if they want to devulge this info or not.

2. Leaderboard is a waste of dev resources and time for something very meaningless and easy to abuse. Dont waste a second on it. Our forums, our /ooc , and YT can be our leaderboards.

Resists:

1. I think they are fine and keep things interesting for all classes. If anything, throw the other type of CC spells (blind/stun/mez) under the same bus Null threw root/snare under. (i.e. easier to resist at higher MR). But if this is done, then make all debuff type spells do 50 percent more then they do in PvE, as was the case on the red servers circa velious. Please beware at how shockingly powerful well geared meele are already and how much more powerful they will become in the near and far future of the server. I think well geared meele are already very OP.

[diplo]

I enjoy the current system, but I think it would be a good idea to implement hot zones to encourage the 1-45 community to go an exp and actually see some form of life. Groupage is pretty baron at those levels.

[Pudge]

also i think at level 60 there should be pvp exp loss. if you get killed at 60, half a yellow of exp loss.

i know i said no exp loss probably better for the server.. but just make it only at 60. that way it is an honor to be 60 and you feel powerful, and you can only cause exp loss to other 60s who are on an even footing (at least in levels). if you de-level into 59, then you can't lose any more exp.

[SearyxTZ]

2. The flat rate serverwide xp bonus should go away, replaced with a scaleing grouping bonus. What keeps people playing the game is in-game relationships and friendships. You dont form those when you solo to max level. The xp bonus on the server should be in the form of grouping bonus ONLY. The larger the group, the bigger the bonus. Groups desperatly need this anyways, as by their nature they are less efficient for xp then solos or duos and FAR less convinient.


I agree with everything you said at the start of this.

There's a lot of pushing for a group XP bonus and I think the intention behind that is great, but a group XP bonus by itself isn't going to do it.

The problem is you can't GET groups if you're a level 25 guy running around, much less a FULL group. There aren't very many people 1-50 and the people that do exist are completely spread out across the hundred zones in the game.

This box needs a single mid-level hotzone so that a decent # of people will be congregated in the same general area.

My pitch is for Lake of Ill Omen. It's centralized (accessible by good races, evil races, and iksar), it's close to the high level hotspots (Karnors, Chardok, DL), it's pretty big, and it has PvE content for levels 1 all the way up to 50 (bloodgil gobbos).

[Critical]

Seems a lot of people are very interested in playing and maintaining a population on this server..

Yellow text encourages pvp, end of story. Zone info or not.

Grouping should have a huge bonus especially with 6, I remember this on classic. Hybrid Penalty should not be removed unless in a group, then it can be removed in my opinion.

Leaderboards are for ego's it's cool but if it means that the staff has to work on code to make this possible, scrap the idea.

HOT ZONES are an AWESOME idea, Hot zones for 1-20, 20-30, 30-40, 40-50 and so on should be enabled, this will encourage grouping, leveling, pvp, interaction in general

[SearyxTZ]

I'd maintain 1 maybe 2 hotzones at most. There just aren't enough people on the server for more than that. If they started tagging zones all across the world, then it defeats the purpose.

A centralized wide level range zone (like LOIO) + some 1-50 grouping / pvp over zone control == hey this is starting to feel like a classic red server. 90% of the pvp in Kunark on the Zek servers I played went down in that Lake-Dreadlands-KC/Chardok area.

[Dullah]

Yes, exp penalty is classic, but translocators are not. Can't really be in favor of classic and be for something crazy like translocators.

I personally think the exp bonus right now is outrageously high if you're a solo class. While farming items on mostly light blue mobs, I've almost leveled my wizard twice in the last few days. Thats nuts... I'd really like to see this bonus get moved to a group only bonus to balance out the class population. Being able to quickly solo or powerlevel someone to 60 does nothing to help the population as a whole. Hot zones would be cool for multiple reasons, but only tweaking group bonus will help restore the spirit of the game which is player interaction and accomplishing team driven goals.

[hijinks]

1) YT.
2) Leaderboards.
3) Hybrid XP penalties removed alltogether.
4) HotZones

I cannot emphasize enough on a PvP server with a slower xp rate how much HotZones would promote PvP, and give people incentive to do so and venture into all other zones. On LoZ they had a rotating HotZone script that every 48 hours would update 2 Kunark Zones and 2 Classic Zones with the HotZone bonus. I don't see how you could go wrong with this AT ALL.

I thought the /who all zone feature that listed the players 46+ in it on LoZ was pretty cool, but I'm sure many people be up for that.

But, honestly you could add all of the above and still be stuck with the same limited pool of players that would ever play Red99. You want the pop to improve? Wait 2 months and offer a 1 time only un reversible character copy from Blue99 to Red99, I would be shocked if all those guilds waiting in line for raid content wouldn't consider moving over en masse to this server to try PvP and fight for content. I could be wrong.

[Splorf22]

So here is another totally not classic random idea.

What if any time a player resisted a crowd control type spell (root/stun/blind) he would automatically resist all other CC spells for a small period of time, say 5 seconds?

[Nirgon]

Personally I think past 50 the xp should be slow/classic.

People tend to play more when they need to level.

[Critical]

You want the pop to improve? Wait 2 months and offer a 1 time only un reversible character copy from Blue99 to Red99, I would be shocked if all those guilds waiting in line for raid content wouldn't consider moving over en masse to this server to try PvP and fight for content. I could be wrong.

Great stuff right here, I love this idea.

[hijinks]

Great stuff right here, I love this idea.

I really think it would be a viable solution. Honestly, on live games right now Blizzard and other companies are constantly merging servers and offering people char transfer services for free. Lets face it people, you could change Red99 all you want, but it didn't come until well into Blue 99's lifecycle, the vast majority of potential EQ EMU players have already called that place home and probably would never consider starting over on a new server from scratch.

Blue had like what, 600 people last night? I bet it is a huge clusterfuck in there, allowing char xfers would help solve Red99's pop problem, and the bottleneck that exists on blue when it comes to raids.

[Critical]

Also put a limit on plat and certain items that can be transferred in this and it will be golden.

I am 100% sure many people and full guilds will transfer given this opportunity on the main page.

Also, I would like to add having Velious release at the same time for both servers would help people from playing a certain server just because of content release.

[Dullah]

I still think char copies is the only thing that would increase the pop to a place where it could be self-sustaining/self-propagating. You need players to bring players.

Naked level 50 character copies would be huge. Naked because the abundance of gear on blue couldn't just be moved to red without it having negative effects on item value and the economy. Level 50, because it would provide people the chance to group and make pals. Character copies rather than transfers imo, because it wouldn't have an adverse effect on blue.

People can play both red and blue simultaneously, so one shouldn't really get into the way of the other. Most blue players would be casual, but a lot of them would really enjoy it. PvP does bring competition to EQ content after all, and right now that content has basically been locked down on blue with nothing any of them can do about it except quit their jobs. When the blue uber guild was suspended for 2 weeks, the blue pop went way up because people had a chance to compete. Red could be that opportunity for them.

[Dacuk]

1) Active server leadership (devs and guides are there when you need em). Ensure that snap decisions are not made, but take the time to collect facts and make proper judgements.

2) YT with locations. For the love of god.

3) Hotzones (remove 50% blanket bonus, add 100% bonus to 1 mid level, 1 high level hotzone, and just watch the yt flow, also eliminate hybrid penalty).

4) ability to /w all zonename to see where the competition is bluebing it up. one of my favorite reasons i played LoZ. On a low pop server this is great.

5) I also like the idea of offering naked toon copies from blue to red... maybe at level 52 though instead of 50 to make it a bit more palatable.

[runlvlzero]

I agree with everything you said at the start of this.

There's a lot of pushing for a group XP bonus and I think the intention behind that is great, but a group XP bonus by itself isn't going to do it.

The problem is you can't GET groups if you're a level 25 guy running around, much less a FULL group. There aren't very many people 1-50 and the people that do exist are completely spread out across the hundred zones in the game.

This box needs a single mid-level hotzone so that a decent # of people will be congregated in the same general area.

My pitch is for Lake of Ill Omen. It's centralized (accessible by good races, evil races, and iksar), it's close to the high level hotspots (Karnors, Chardok, DL), it's pretty big, and it has PvE content for levels 1 all the way up to 50 (bloodgil gobbos).

Aye, Overlooking this is a bad idea.

I also really like Pudges idea for xp loss at 60, or maybe 59-60, this could be tweaked. maybe only the elite should keep level 60 for a long term? This could be further abused by zerg tactics though and really hurt the small groups. (if xp death were increased dramaticly)

[CrystalBlue]

Personally I think past 50 the xp should be slow/classic.

People tend to play more when they need to level.


Im gonna agree with this.

What im about to say is 100 percent truth: Now that many people are approaching lvl 60 there have been MANY conversation about how they cant wait till they hit 60 so they can just log on for raids. Remember how it use to be before kunark? super low pop numbers and when it was raid time suddenly it went way up? Yeah that.

I dont think we did ourselves any favors by putting in a huge xp bonus.

Does everyone know that the first level 60 server wide has already quit the server?

The only xp bonus that needed to be in was the one that fostered community, a group bonus.

[karsten]

oh, I also wanted to put in here that we should bring back recharging to items that aren't game breaker pvp things. Killing all the recharging just because someone is recharging prayers of life 297 times is sorta like killing an entire forest just cuz of one sick tree!

[Supreme]

how is it abused? lvl cap?

Anyone that played Live when YT was in from the start remembers when people would make stupid named level 1 characters then fight another stupid named toon.

Like "Amazondotcom defeated Neweggdotcom in a duel to the death" etc..

Where fake PVP YT was just another way to server wide broadcast stupidity.

So put a level requirement on it as with OOC so it will not be abused by the trolls.



But go ahead and "hate the idea" just because you want to be contrary instead of considering the outcomes of the proposed suggestion.

[Aerist]

First and foremost,

Please understand that TRUE classic everquest pvp is a very small niche market. You are never going to sustain a semi decent player base with its limiting factors. Keep in mind the people who would play on here who aren't are doing it for numerous varying reasons, all of which stem from the underlying factor, the player base is no long 15 and able to spend hours a day playing. with that being said, the list of priorities to be addressed.

PRIORITIES
#1 GM Communication- Let's be honest, nothing is perfect. However flame posts and rumors always run rampant when there is little to no communication. There needs to be weekly updates, even if its just to say "hey this is getting worked on". Going months without one post from anyone in management pretty much is a recipe for disaster. Just let them know you're here.

#1 EXP Rate Vs Drop Rate, max level needs to be easily attained, period. (this includes removing hybrid penalty) The loot however needs to be rare. What does this do? It still provides a time sink, but allows new players to at least be at the same level of game play as the rest of the server. Noone wants to spend hours grinding in mistmoore on a 100 person server, especially pvp.

#3 Yellow Text: the ONLY reason i would want this implemented is to encourage pvp. even LIVE has this now. The main reason being? Too many zones, not enough players. Period. especially if you think over 100 zones with people who aren't all in range to each other.

Everything else I consider bugs and tweaks, IE bond of death/bolts and resist system period can all be modified with extensive testing.

Good luck Red99,

Shody

[Kevynne]

[QUOTE=SamwiseBanned;724145]

Priority

Yellow Text - People want it, it attracts pvp, much lols will be had. The few things I took away from my LoZ experience was this. It really was fun and it even made grinding more enjoyable knowing someone is getting their asses kicked. Ultimately this game is for entertainment and no other feature entertains more than YT.

Resists - Must stay true to providing a balanced resist system over a classic one. Classic resists were built around the game being new and a lot of things where unknown/undiscovered. It was also built around a bigger population size and the availability of resist gear. No way in hell did they expect more than half the population to be decked out in blue diamond gear by Kunark. I am not saying the current system doesn't need a little tweak here and there but not at the expense of every melee being John Rambo with a few pieces of MR gear.


Secondary (please don't judge me, I am merely throwing things out there)

Leaderboard - I think leaderboard coupled with incentives is a great way to encourage pvp. Similiar to diablo II ladder, we would have "seasons." The person with the most kills at the end of the season would receive and in-game title he would wear until the next season is over then the next winner receives the title. Gives those solo pvpers something to work for.

One More Red Guide - One more guide/gm for red would be nice. Again nothing that would make me quit if it didn't happen but would definitely be appreciated by those who have waited days for assistance. Not that you aren't on everyday but its easy to miss Sirken by an hour or two multiple days in a row.

Increase PvP Rez Timer - The victors of a pvp encounter should be able to rez the dead (assuming they have a cleric ofc.) It would allow the victors to maintain zone control and reimburse the xp lost to their teammates. This will also encourage people to be civil so that should they lose a major battle, they can ask the victors to rez and scoot.


Would like to add Group Experience to priorities;
CrystalBlue has said this alot but it's very true
take all current 50-60 xp bonus and funnel that into a grouping bonus so 50-60 get 100% xp and lets say full group gets [100%+ (#of players in group x5)]+xp bonus(es)+ ZEMs

Would also like to add to controcersial: Item Loot
May I suggest running a beta were item loot is allowed, and then have all who played on beta VOTE to let item loot in and such. It would work like how it worked on RZ basically. and too keep the bluebs here maybe limit item loot to say 1-3 items depending on lvl range?

Also to Controversial: No drops being tradeable
Now this i KNOW is not classic and doesn't sound like any sense; but they had it on VZ/TZ and it kinda changed the economy abit; since lvl 1s could wear planar loot and therefore it drove prices of OTHER gears that were pricey if the said planar/no trade items were tradeable plummet and allow lowbies who are poor (like myself) to better gear themselves without having to be a raiding guild/person

AND would liek to add to Secondary: Hot Zones
Hot Zones would make this game=
easier to level with groups/friends
encourage PVP in zones
make unpopulated zones populated for a short time
in the 3rd point sense i would say change hot points bi weekly-monthly maybe even weekly?

[SearyxTZ]

More: translocators instead of boats. Soulbinders for melee. Consider books or just leaving the firepots open permanently.

Traveling between 120 zones is just as big of a problem as being spread across 120 zones. It takes hours to get anywhere if you're a melee, and finding a bind is a lot more challenging than it was on the active live servers where every city had a bunch of casters hanging around.


This is the root cause of basically everything people complain about: we don't have 400+ people playing here.

This server is nearly perfect for a normal population, but we only have a low population to work with.

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID9245/images/cutler_pix.jpg

[jdklaw]

More: translocators instead of boats. Soulbinders for melee. Consider books or just leaving the firepots open permanently.

Traveling between 120 zones is just as big of a problem as being spread across 120 zones. It takes hours to get anywhere if you're a melee, and finding a bind is a lot more challenging than it was on the active live servers where every city had a bunch of casters hanging around.


I'd encourage Sirken/Rogean/Nildog/whoever to just play on their box if it's possible to. Then they can adjust as they see fit.

I really hated the idea of Translocaters when I went from P99 to Legacy, but after awhile I realized how necessary it was. The emu community is small, the red emu community is even smaller, and the fact that its PvP eliminates any remaining possibility of someone willing to help with anything unless their same guild (and with Kunark doubling the zones + Kunark evac policy ugh)... so, ya add it.

Soulbinders is kind of pushing it, but I guess you could use the same argument, except part of EQ is trying not to die hours away from your bind point. If you had translocaters you really don't need soulbinders.

Definately no to books.

[Sirken]

I'm sensing some trolling in this anti-trolling thread.

yea me too.




stop talking to each other in my thread. i dont want to read your opinions on other peoples' ideas. or how stupid somebody is.

Suggestions / Ideas or STFU


ill be back after the bears game.

[jdklaw]

yea me too.




stop talking to each other in my thread. i dont want to read your opinions on other peoples' ideas. or how stupid somebody is.

Suggestions / Ideas or STFU


ill be back after the bears game.

I made a good contribution and u deleted it, can we get some rulesets regarding what we can and cannot talk about plz, because mine was a non trolling response to supreme, when his comment is insighting trolling.

I provided a constructive agreement and recommendation as well as peacefully disagreeing on a topic. I thought that this is what this thread was designed for?

[Sirken]

I made a good contribution and u deleted it, can we get some rulesets regarding what we can and cannot talk about plz, because mine was a non trolling response to supreme, when his comment is insighting trolling.

I provided a constructive agreement and recommendation as well as peacefully disagreeing on a topic. I thought that this is what this thread was designed for?


as i said, anything that isnt a suggestion / idea to improve the server, gets deleted. if i hit a suggestion that wasnt previously said, i really am sorry. please repost it so i can take a look.

[gloinz]

yea me too.



Suggestions / Ideas or STFU


ill be back after the bears game.

heres a suggestion: keep football on monday and sunday where it motherfucking belongs

fuck the man moving football to everyday of the week

[Melveny]

Just popping in to say hello and Sirken is the best.

Good day.

[Tradesonred]

Being able to quickly solo or powerlevel someone to 60 does nothing to help the population as a whole. Hot zones would be cool for multiple reasons, but only tweaking group bonus will help restore the spirit of the game which is player interaction and accomplishing team driven goals.

So leaving stragglers behind who need to take up forever to catch up to where 90% of the pop is a better idea ?

[Dullah]

So leaving stragglers behind who need to take up forever to catch up to where 90% of the pop is a better idea ?

Only you could misinterpret increasing group bonus as a way a way in which to, somehow, alienate or leave someone behind.

Bravo sir.

You have become better at stupid (250).

[BellowingBrute]

Give Sirken a chance here. This is the first time HE has asked these questions, so this is unrelated to other staff asking them before.

[Aerist]

Only you could misinterpret increasing group bonus as a way a way in which to, somehow, alienate or leave someone behind.

Bravo sir.

You have become better at stupid (250).

Destin please realize that increasing group bonus IS a good idea when there is enough of a playerbase TO ACTUALLY GROUP. you do realize that a full group on r99 at the current population with no boxing would account for roughly 5 to 10 percent of the total playerbase online per group. No to mention of those actually in range to group with each other, are KOS to each other in different guilds, so that 5 to 10 percent is actually more like 15 to 20 percent of the possible unguilded playerbase. The people online are not all in nihilum, which obviously would benefit most from a group bonus due to its large number of members.

Its a numbers game, and right now the numbers don't justify modifying grouping.

[Dullah]

Theres some truth to that, but its not like you can't find someone to group with at almost any level. Perhaps not a full group, but the idea I think would be to make it more appealing to search out a partner rather than to just solo your way to 60. Those at the lower levels will still have a crazy good bonus which almost trivializes the first 20 or so levels as it is.

[Aerist]

I agree incentive to group is a plus, but i think the focus on the server should be having the entire player base near or around the same level to promote such grouping.

I also do like the idea of character transfers from blue to red

[CrystalBlue]

I agree incentive to group is a plus, but i think the focus on the server should be having the entire player base near or around the same level to promote such grouping.

I also do like the idea of character transfers from blue to red

Which is why there is already a low level xp bonus that scales down as you get higher.

Thats the only individual xp bonus that is needed, anything more and people will just continue to solo which results in 50 percent of the players (the non solo classes) quitting early, and 25 percent of the soloers quitting later (due to bordem after all that soloing).

The player retention rate in regards to xp has to be tackled from both sides. People need a reason TO group (xp bonus) and a reason NOT to solo (no bonus associated with it).

The draw and desire to solo is HUGE. Its just so much better and more convinient. No waiting on others, afk when you want, go where you want, 100 percent of the cash/loot is for you,etc.etc.etc. Even if what I suggest comes about some people will still solo just because of the above.

The idea of transers or "free level 60s at char creation" is just collectivly throwing in the towel and would greatly cheapen the server.

Anyone remember that server sony launched where you started out lvl 51 with 50 AAs? lol how fast that became a ghost town with the finaly 7 people playing BEGGING to be merged with another server, it was scary/funny. Think it was called Trakanon? Total joke server.

[SamwiseBanned]

added /testbuff to my suggestions list on first page

[Pudge]

i actually really like the blue character transfer/copy idea. as long as no gear

[Graahle]

added /testbuff to my suggestions list on first page

Yesss. EQ Live's test server has this feature and it's just great.

[Dullah]

i actually really like the blue character transfer/copy idea. as long as no gear

I also think char copied to lvl 50 would be great for helping people find groups, meet people, and battle for the content on red. At 60 people wouldn't need to group, would probably just log in for a few to gank. Having to level up would give them an objective.

[Sirken]

ok so it seems the thread is just about wrapping up, ideas are being repeated or seconded. not really anything new being suggested.

so. i'm going to lock the thread for now, and get back to all of you, either in this thread, or a new thread, after i sound these off on the rest of staff and get their input on them as well. this will not be an overnight process. however, i WILL be getting back to you.

thank you to everyone that wants to make the server a better place, and thank you for all the well written and well thought out ideas.

<3
Sirken

[Sirken]

i stand corrected


Got to the thread too late but here's my input.
Create an XP bonus for those of us who've gotten older and have wives and jobs.
A cooldown bonus. If I haven't logged in for X amount of hours, then when I log in, I get Y amount of time at a higher XP bonus that expires.


That thread got locked pretty quickly so I hope it's ok to add something to it here. This might also be relevant to blue.

I wish that you guys utilized the motd's and/or some special form of notification for staff-to-player communication more often(not broadcasts or things that can easily be missed), for example to notify people about the existence of the feedback thread, as it is important to the future of the server, and isn't just the usual day-to-day forum chatter which not everyone is interested in or even able to keep up with. If someone didn't watch the forums closely the last few days, they may have missed it. Currently, it feels like the forums give undo weight and power to those who have excessive time/desire to spend on forums and those who often seem to like to hear themselves talk a lot (more notably on red with the egos and trolls abound, I'm sure you're familiar with it). As someone who tries not to get involved in the petty wars of words very often, I just want to make sure those with busier lives and the non-forum-lurkers are kept in the loop too, since they are probably ones who aren't trashing up the server as much anyway.

Other than that, I would have seconded some(but not all) of people's ideas in the thread, but sounds like you've had your fill of that. Personally I like PVP as an interesting social dynamic, and kinda like things not being catered to the kill-kill-smacktalk crowd via yellow text and such, but I realize a lot of people are calling for that stuff so maybe it's inevitable.

Thanks for everything you do!

[Yukahwa]

The only problem with a Cooldown EXP bonus is that I can see a decent amount of players only logging on and using the bonus, and then logging off until it returns.

Staff to player communication is one of the most important things I'd like to see changed, as Renk said.

[Nirgon]

I think all of the classic people left minus a guild (encompassing one or two of these remaining people) who doesn't want spawn variance.

These fast xp, YT enabled, broken mechanic boxes don't survive.

Best thing was no MQ.

Often, for games that finally turn it around? It's too late. Look at Warhammer.

[Autotune]

Red needs this.

Add 2 (possibly 3) items.
1) an item that increases XP gained by up to 15%
2) an item that increases coins dropped by up to 15%
3) (if possible) add an item that increases you drop rate chances by up to 15% on items.


Allow them to be picked up from class trainers every week.

Allow people to loot them from corpses and turn them in for random rewards (or turn their own in for rewards)

These items would have different level ranges to help combat exploitation/abuse. So the item given to a lvl 10 would have crappier rewards compared to a lvl 50 item turnin. Allow the items to also stack based on bracket levels, allow 4 to be turned in at once to a different npc for a chance at rarer items and make it so the items cannot be banked.

Next add in xp/loot hot spots that change every 2 weeks. (probably been discussed)

I think Blue has the classic people on lockdown and red just needs it's own style. Right now, red has no Style, it's just blue with a seriously tiny player pool that is over saturated with assholes.

There has to be something to entice people to play on it.

[jdklaw]

exp boost on pvp loot interesting

[Greegon]

Red needs this.

Add 2 (possibly 3) items.
1) an item that increases XP gained by up to 15%
2) an item that increases coins dropped by up to 15%
3) (if possible) add an item that increases you drop rate chances by up to 15% on items.


Allow them to be picked up from class trainers every week.

Allow people to loot them from corpses and turn them in for random rewards (or turn their own in for rewards)

These items would have different level ranges to help combat exploitation/abuse. So the item given to a lvl 10 would have crappier rewards compared to a lvl 50 item turnin. Allow the items to also stack based on bracket levels, allow 4 to be turned in at once to a different npc for a chance at rarer items and make it so the items cannot be banked.

Next add in xp/loot hot spots that change every 2 weeks. (probably been discussed)

I think Blue has the classic people on lockdown and red just needs it's own style. Right now, red has no Style, it's just blue with a seriously tiny player pool that is over saturated with assholes.

There has to be something to entice people to play on it.

good idea, except for maybe turning them in for items. but i like it.

[LizardNecro]

Dunno if this is too late for the thread, but my thought is:

Hard coded teams:
Hard coded teams (where you cannot xgroup, xbuff, xheal, xrez) are key to encouraging pvp and encouraging grouping. You are incentivized to help people on your team. pvp is also encouraged because you can't raid/group with the other team, so you don't have to worry about burning bridges with future friends. Sullon Zek style hard coded teams (but make it so that each team has access to all classes)

[SamwiseBanned]

Dunno if this is too late for the thread, but my thought is:

Hard coded teams:
Hard coded teams (where you cannot xgroup, xbuff, xheal, xrez) are key to encouraging pvp and encouraging grouping. You are incentivized to help people on your team. pvp is also encouraged because you can't raid/group with the other team, so you don't have to worry about burning bridges with future friends. Sullon Zek style hard coded teams (but make it so that each team has access to all classes)

i agree, it would really make this server unique. ffa has always been the least populated eq pvp servers. SZ was the greatest server of all time (discord was pretty badass tho.) it would offer something other than whats out there already (LoZ, Zek)

[Samrothstein]

Teams would require a relaunch I think.

[Nirgon]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3680

Finish this.

Make it mandatory.

[Cwall]

mite b cool

[SearyxTZ]

Two teams (evil / good) makes the most sense given both the existing city structure of the game (ie: FV outpost and OT outpost) and the history of classic teams servers. Both Vallon Zek and Tallon Zek evolved into this two team structure (even though it was actually 3 teams versus 1 team).

Needs players to be in the same zones or doesn't work, but then again that also applies to FFA. Territory/zone control is a foreign concept when everyone has entire zones to themselves because there's 100+ zones and little incentive to be in the same ones outside of chasing the best loot at the high end.

It's always been unfortunate that virtually every red emu server copied the least popular classic red server which had the most problems and the least amount of pvp (Rallos Zek).



It would not require a relaunch. If Rogean is trying to familiarize himself with classic red EQ, then that is as good of a starting point as any: which of those server rulesets worked best (popularity), and why did they work? How can I make that foundation work with what I have available to me (~5-10% of live server populations)? What design considerations should be made to compensate for that difference?

[Nirgon]

least amount of pvp (Rallos Zek)


Yeah ok. There wasn't a day I didn't have several PvP fights on RZ, that includes on alts. SZ? LOTS of time solo xping in Highkeep, no pvp.

As far as teams:

Searyx planning on making Iksar monk? Or would you roll human to be the "lone wolf"?
Not to mention almost every shaman is going to be evil..

Do you realize if you split this current or even the population at launch up what it would look like? Again, it would be a solo fest... people dropping off etc. This kind of population doesn't support a teams server, even if it is a cool ideal to hold.

I'd stand for a teams remake because people might actually come back and play it, but then again, with the reasons listed above... there just isn't a population to support it.

[Aerist]

Two teams (evil / good) makes the most sense given both the existing city structure of the game (ie: FV outpost and OT outpost) and the history of classic teams servers. Both Vallon Zek and Tallon Zek evolved into this two team structure (even though it was actually 3 teams versus 1 team).

Needs players to be in the same zones or doesn't work, but then again that also applies to FFA. Territory/zone control is a foreign concept when everyone has entire zones to themselves because there's 100+ zones and little incentive to be in the same ones outside of chasing the best loot at the high end.

It's always been unfortunate that virtually every red emu server copied the least popular classic red server which had the most problems and the least amount of pvp (Rallos Zek).



It would not require a relaunch. If Rogean is trying to familiarize himself with classic red EQ, then that is as good of a starting point as any: which of those server rulesets worked best (popularity), and why did they work? How can I make that foundation work with what I have available to me (~5-10% of live server populations)? What design considerations should be made to compensate for that difference?



The teams concept has been and will always be the most debated argument at least in regards to what type of pvp server it should be.

Let me be the first to say while i would LOVE the implementation of a teams concept, let us not forget that the actual teams concept didn't last long on live other than sullon zek. VZ and TZ were both team based but people will find a way to group with who they want to, thus cross teaming began.

So what you are really saying is you want a server like SZ (the lowest pop server of the pvp servers at their respective primes).

While I would love a clear set "these are your enemies", it also gives you the "these faggots are your allies deal with it" atmosphere.

If we were pushing 200 to maybe even 300 actual players it would be possible if we had 3 to 4 guilds on each side, however the current population doesn't support it. if we got 75 people on usually, and you split that in half to about 37, then split that even more so into level range, you literally will be soloing your way to 60

Shody

[Nirgon]

Fun concept but no pop to support it.

[SearyxTZ]

VZ and TZ were both team based but people will find a way to group with who they want to, thus cross teaming began.

Hardcoded blocks crossteaming. It could be argued -- and I'm not making this argument -- that having the option to crossteam made things more interesting/dramatic.


If we were pushing 200 to maybe even 300 actual players it would be possible if we had 3 to 4 guilds on each side, however the current population doesn't support it. if we got 75 people on usually, and you split that in half to about 37, then split that even more so into level range, you literally will be soloing your way to 60


Most of the server being in one guild is not a better scenario than forcing there to be at least two competing guilds at any given time + giving casuals a clearer path of where/who to group with.

This has been a constant problem with FFA servers, going all the way back to 2008 with my own guild on VZTZ. Since there is no regulation whatsoever, one guild always rises to the top.

Casuals leveling up here rarely pvp from what I've seen (and didn't on Rallos Zek either), because it is inherently more risky to pvp in a FFA environment and ruin your chances of getting a group.

On teams, you fight the other team. Your zones are your zones.

On any FFA server, you do not get the same sense of ownership over any of the zones. You never had to protect your territory, home cities, dungeons, etc, because none of it is defined under a FFA ruleset.




Actually -- Sirken, how much context do you want here? Is this post out of line? Just saying "teams" isn't really useful feedback without the context of why we'd want teams. I understand you don't want people to debate or shit up this thread, though.

[Aerist]

I will say this, while I still don't think hardcoded teams would change the server much, Seary you got a good point about creating an interesting atmosphere with the whole good/evil thing. Although quite honestly I'd be more apt to go all out and do SZ style with 3 hardcoded teams. GO NEUTS

[mostbitter]

I'd like to see the experience penalty on pvp death removed

[CrystalBlue]

Teams dont mean a damn thing when we can all have 30 free accounts each with toons on all/every team under the sun.

Now if they (the admins here) only allowed one account per individual player (checked with tieing accounts to phone numbers or something or other), then it could be a good thing.

Even without teams I wish they'd tie everyone to one account w/ phone number (or whatever). Bring some accountablility to the game.

[Potus]

Remove the exp penalty on pvp. It scared away a lot of people and probably still does.

[runlvlzero]

A possible way to fix hardcoded teams would be a book you could turn in to pick your team.

Maybe Red, Blue, Green

Maybe make it so once per month or every so often you could change teams if you wanted to turn in a fresh book. But not let people do it faster then that.

Maybe make an interesting quest to obtain a fresh book to pick a fresh team.

This gives everyone a chance to pick their hardcoded team at the start and their not locked in for life. It gives an event pvp can focus around if people so choose to try and stop people from switching teams etc... make it require group pvp to do. This way one person can't easilly flip around constantly harrasing the server it would require organization and teamplay (which is fun).

This is if people were serious about hardcoded teams. It would be neat, even if rogean launched a fresh beta of it. Just an idea of an alternative solution I felt like it should be here just in case.

The con, its basically the same as the guild system now and probably would end up lopsided. Maybe give teams a max limit of players based on total server population, first in first served. How this would adjust for quitters I don't know. Overall it could be bad if implemented on this server already in progress. Another possible solution to this would be a max team size of 20, so a new team was created once the first 20 players turned in their books, this is to highly restrictive IMO and kind of kills the fun of EQ while it fits in with a "quake deathmatch" style of teamplay.

Perhaps I should be updating one of my older threads, but while I dont like the idea of safe zones much, you could pick a 1-20 dungeon and make it a safe haven for new players. It might entice more blue players to try out the server if they could feel like they could xp safely for a few more levels, and this would mean you wouldnt have to do it to the whole server. Runneye-eye for example, or script it to rotate between blackburrow, runneyeye and CB. This would also be very neat and allow pvp to happen in these places at "some times". You could even pick places like guk and nejena for the rotation and cap the safety at level 20, so once people dinged 21 would face pvp even if the zone was a safety for 1-20. If it wasn't to hard to code, you could code it for 1-15 levels in the random dungeon. Those first groups to me seem to be were I met allot of players and got into the server. Maybe add a random newb zone to the list to concentrate players. Help them get a one time transport and bind nearbye.

Most of the above is a fancy way of /testbuff but I still like the idea of a generic testbuff, i think it did allot to bring new blood to test, and also /testcopy without items or plat, but open maybe only once in a while to stop people from continually copying. I favor those two ideas the most of all the stuff mentioned here. It was copied chars (from fennin ro i believe) that allowed us to competatively create a new raid org on test. But then it killed the box later when it was FFA for copying at anytime with gear from FV and other servers. People would farm gear on FV to bring over to test. I think the big killer there though was people would come over with gear far better then anything even the earlier copies had brought that was not attainable through the current raid orgs on test.

Overall crazy ideas IMO but I thought they were worthwile to think about and share with the creative minds.

[Nulak]

Well, keep it classic. IF Red must die, fine i don't want to play World of Warcraft.
So, imo

-Yellow text seems popular and i can understand that, +1 here
-Exp penalty on pvp, 100% agree with this, for sure it'll bring more pvp around and maybe blue ppl will try Red.
-Vallon Zek type team (Evil vs lightie) (Risky feature for Red right now)

[Nirgon]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=82941

+

item loot

+

4 level pvp range across the board

=

good

[Sirken]

been busy, but your prayers are not falling on deaf ears i assure u.

<3

[Rushmore]

been busy, but your prayers are not falling on deaf ears i assure u.

<3

good to hear. In a perfect world you would announce any changes ahead of time and maybe a poll just to be absolutely sure the core player base you have want it.

[Haul]

reroll server with item loot / or reroll server with teams imho

[mitic]

priority #1: one time transfer from blue

lots of blue players are sick of the FTE rule and I think guilds as a whole would come over to red

#2: YT, no hybrid penalty etc

if #1+2 is not (at least partially) doable by the staff then #3: wipe it

there is just one way or the other nilbog/rogean. please stop ignoring your red population!

[Nirgon]

Get through all the fixes posted, take your time no rush (not trolling).

After everything is all patched up, see where we are with population and start taking some kind of serious community vote or an IRC pow-wow.

It's true that it's not fair to the raiders to wipe a box. It's also not fair to people who paid blue stuff to get red stuff.

But months down the road, we may be having a different talk. Things just got off on a real bad start. I'd say the only thing to pull it back together would be some kind of unanymous vote, special in game/forum titles handed out to the last people playing etc and a restart only if they all agreed on it.

The unwashed masses really don't know what's good for them. They will be happiest with a fully classic RZ type server.

Personally? Yes a 3,000 pop SZ style box would be fantastic but it's not a reality.

[hagard]

any update on this shit sirken??

[Sirken]

any update on this shit sirken??

compiled a long ass list of ideas that were submitted here by the players, made it readable and coherent, and sent it off to Nilbog and Rogean this morning when it was ready. we didn't do anything with it over the weekend because there was an emergency that i can't talk about, so don't ask about it. aside from that, everyone is busy, but i'm hoping to have feedback from them before the weekend. as soon as i do hear from them, i will share their thoughts/ideas/opinions/concerns with the community, and we will take it from there.

compromise doesn't mean everybody is going to get everything they want. but i'm fairly certain there's a middle ground that will keep the server within the vision the staff has, while also ensuring the majority of the players will have even more fun playing on the server.

as i said in a previous post, i'm busy, so i'm not going to respond to every post, or post every day. but i WILL read every post as time allows.

thanks everyone for your continued patience, it's appreciated.

<3

[Sirken]

There is nothing to update, nothing has been patched in or discussed visibly on forums.

Smells like the thread Amelinda made like 5 months ago that never actually materialized in to anything even though we discussed shit for like 50 pages.

Love Sirken, but we've seen how this goes over a dozen times.

A+ response

/sigh

this ENTIRE thread consists of being "discussed visibly on forums." and of course there's nothing to patch, it was just a few days ago that i updated to say we've been busy but have not forgotten. and 4 days later you shit up my thread with this? you don't let things like common sense or logic dictate your responses, and i like that. way to break away from the herd.

[Sirken]

:( :( :( :(

sorry u are sad

[Nirgon]

So far so good with Sirken, it's been a while too. Hopefully he gets all the tools he needs to continue doing his thang.

[Sirken]

Why delete? That post wasn't rude or disrespectful in any way.....

wasnt suggestions either. was just a long QQ list of things that make u sad

[Nirgon]

So far so good with Sirken, it's been a while too.

Observation.



Hopefully he gets all the tools he needs to continue doing his thang.

Suggestion.


do you two really think these are appropriate debates to be having in this thread? You're directly attacking the staff each time you do it, so I'll just report each post and have Sirken or Ambrotos forum ban you where you belong

First day here knows everyone by name.

[Gustoo]

Very important PVP change that is very easy that I always forget to complain about since beta.

/con to player should result in the following

Red = player too high to engage
Yellow = player higher than you but pvpable
White = player exact same level as you
Blue = player lower level than you but pvpable
Green = player too low to pvp

I never know who i can engage as it is. At least not right away. I don't look at mob names to see if they are in PVE range, why would it be different for players?

For PVP I don't think light blue should be part of the procedure. Was light blue even classic?

[Nirgon]

The whole range/in range thing..

It was very common on live for me to see a blue player and try to staff of temp flux them to test if they were in range.

As far as when light blue was added as a con.. I don't know but it definitely didn't exist at launch. There were just green con npcs that would give xp (small amount) sometimes, later light blue came in. Not sure on a date.

[hagard]

Thanks for keeping us in the loop sirken

[Woodcon Valor]

after i get something a lil more concrete from Rogean, i'll divulge a bit more information on which way we are leaning.

if it turns into a bitch/whine/cry fest, ill delete this thread, and the discussions will simply be terminated. do not try to strong arm the staff into getting what you want. it will not work.

Great communication here thanks sirken! Let that be a warning to you forum trolls who try to pressure the staff, it isn't working here it NEVER has so keep all the posts positive :)

see you on the battlefield

[Tycko]

I would suggest a hardcore forum moderator if there are practical candadites willing. Every staff post in correlation with a troll account just reminds me why little productive work gets done every day.

[Nirgon]

Thank you Sirken for investing constructive time and putting up with all this. You set a good example as a staff member.

[Ladytron]

Great to see some server discussion! I however am only running on a phone with wifi so cant play :(

I do agree with a few ideas such as,

my phone blows can't go down the post to finish forgive me I'll fix later

Leaderboard/yt for leeaderboard kills

There must be something we as the people and staff can do to code something that regulates feign death

[Tune]

hot zones

[Nimoorhs]

sirken for world leader

[Giovanni]

1) Two teams good and evil. Team are based upon the sum of your evil and good deity factions. Switching teams is possible but it would involve trashing your home city factions while raising factions of the other side (red wine & bone chip quests etc). This will also prevent high elves from raising faction with grobb and killing people at bind while still remaining on the good team.

2) Leader board

3) Zone control map highlighting which teams control which zones.

4) Characters give experience when killed in pvp. The amount of experience is based upon the kill streak (see leaderboard) that the slain character had going. (i.e. killing Solidus or Lethdar is worth more experience than killing Mellowyellow). Characters with no kill streak give no experience to discourage farming alts (leader board will help as well as people want to maintain their position on top).

5) Hot zones implemented. Hot zones would be defined as zones controlled by the other team. The group of high elves looking to grind for the night would be rewarded substantially by grinding deep within enemy territory (guk) versus safety (crushbone).

6) Binding - Territory control is enhanced by only allowing players to bind in their good or evil faction cities (kelethin or grobb for example) or neutral cities (queynos or freeport). This includes casters. When slain characters respawn at bind fully geared.

7) Encourage players to group with team members via exp. No one wants to group with hybrids.

[Aerist]

I think we really need to consider doing more marketing again

[Autumnbow]

If the population would increase, I would happily play here. Teams good/evil would be nice, and so would allowing blue characters to transfer. They did the leveling once already, most people would not want to do it again. It would be really interesting to see entire blue raiding guilds transferring over; they might want to just for less competition.

[Sirken]

just a brief update,
spoke to Nilbog, in the process of talking to Rogean.

both have been busy as shit, as have I.

as soon as i get a response from Rogean, i promise to share what suggestions are possible, not possible, and whether or not the staff feels these changes work within what they want for the server, and why, or why not.

again, i know its not a very speedy process, and i thank you all in advance for bearing with us.

-Sirken

[xblade724]

Priority

Neutral text - Rallos Zek's best patch, which was VERY early, made it so that if they are in +4/-4 levels, you are white con. This prevents people roaming just aiming for light blues and destroying them with no chance. This brings some risk/reward into play, to see if you'd like to take a chance. This gives low levels a chance to do something against someone many levels above, and an entire spellset above, where it would normally be an obvious loss. Creates some critical thinking skills as well.

Resists - Good god, yes.

Secondary

Leaderboard - Would be badass

One More Red Guide - Nice.

Controversial

GM Intervention - We've all played this game long enough to know what exploits are manageable and what is punishable. GM intervention SHOULD stay, if possible. This game would be broken without limited rules.

Enable /testbuff - /Sign. We've played thru the game like crazy already, we all know that the game kicks off at lvl 20 opening up possibilities, just give it to us and we'll be happy. That'll also save more QQ about XP buffs, altho I personally would like the pre-kunark xp back and I'll QQ about that nevertheless.

Bring back the pre-kunark xp buff - Levels are still slow, dead slow, even at 200%, so you won't notice too much difference except ..oh i don't know, a higher population? People don't want to start at lvl 1 with nothing. No incentive to come here. A combination of test buff and xp boost = population + satisfied peeps.

Fix bards (possibly already fixed, not sure. I'm still waiting to come back

[Feniggles]

Sirken always a good guy

[tehruoh]

How about a sweet halloween event :)

gotta get dem Flamecallers (or whatever it was)and Rune Bladed Sword of Night son!

red can settle its own disputes over camps via pvp~

[Dragonzord]

Rogean/Sirken/Nilbog,

Set aside 1-2 hours of your time for a moderated IRC session with the red playerbase. The powers that be (you guys) should probably be on some kind of voice comms so you can answer questions unitedly. Either make it so that people can't talk unless they have the floor or keep messages down to 1 per 2 minutes. Basically players will take turns asking questions/making suggestions then you guys return with a response. This forum tagging isn't going anywhere and this kind of shit needs to be done in real-time. If this is asking too much, perhaps it's time to reevalute your commitment to the project and possibly talk about letting someone else take the steering wheel.

Samwise Sam Samual Sammy Samsam Gamgee of Rivervale and Destoryer of the foul troll Trollborn/Arzak
Kefka Palazzo <Nihilum> and proud applicant of Transcendence Gaming
Tommy Oliver - Green Ranger with the power of the Dragonzord

[Nixus]

Sirken, I'd like to have your babies.

[Humerox]

There's nothing wrong with red as it is now.

Resists aren't perfect but they're adequate. Item loot isn't going to happen. YT would be ok because global /ooc is in.

[Old_PVP]

Everything good has already been suggested somewhere else in this thread. Make the server closer to either a Rallos Zek or Sullon Zek type ruleset.


EXP LOSS/TEAMS

If there is exp loss with pvp, then add teams. People are here for the pvp, not to grind back boring PvE exp. Exp loss in pvp is a big turn off early on, and it causes new people to quit more often than not. Teams provide a little extra security at the low levels with zone control and allies to group with, and keeps new people here just long enough that they get invested in their character. Sullon had exp loss with exp bonus in PvE, but teams are also required for this model to work I think.

ITEM LOOT

Whether it is a FFA or team based server, I think item loot is a great mechanic in order to keep people in line. I know this is an unpopular idea to many people, but there are a ton of benefits to item loot, that believe it or not are all healthy to a pvp server.

1.) It allows the underdogs of the server the potential to make a difference and affect the top guilds.
2.) It adds an extra edge of excitement and thrill to the game that you would not get otherwise.
3.) There is no pvp adrenaline rush that compares to possibly losing some of your gear.
4.) It cuts back on overpowered twinks.
5.) It allows undergeared, lower level players to band together and employ guerrilla warfare tactics to devastating effect, and actually cause serious consequences and monetary loss to otherwise untouchable people.
6.) Keeps the economy in check, no longer will droppables, rare or common, be ridiculously overpriced.
7.) Bragging rights, and we all know half the fun of pvp is the trash talk, both before and after.

YELLOW TEXT

This has already been mentioned a ton of times, and would be a great addition. It would make the server feel more alive. Make an option to filter it though for the people who don't want to see it.


Yeah so basically I want to see teams or item loot, with or without exp loss (depending on teams).

Just the 2 coppers of an old pvper.

[PopoTheGreat]

First, not to sound like a brown nose, but as a new EQ player, I appreciate the idea that the GM's are actually listening.

That being said, something I think would help with the balance, and possibly cut down on the corpse camping/greifing, is to allow casters to come back from a PvP death at something more than 0% mana.

When a caster is slain by another player, especially if they're killed near their bind (which does happen, though not as much as people complain about), they're put at a serious disadvantage, requiring them to med, sometimes for a rather long time, before they can join the battle, or even have a chance to invis, or shadowstep, etc, to get away, whereas a melee character can get up from a PvP death, and immediately leap into the fray once again.

Again, I've only just started playing EQ about a month ago, and this is admittedly my first server, but I enjoy the shit out of this server. The people are mostly good people (despite the forum posts to suggest otherwise), and the server has my immersion factor to 11.

Sadly there's no way to actually prevent bind camping, other than to plug, but that's just part of the game.

[Sirken]

this will not come easy for most of you as you feel some sense entitlement, or that you really are special/important.

this is not to everybody,

as i have said before, i have spoken with Nilbog. and i have sent the same topics of discussion to Rogean with my own and Nilbogs opinions attached. that doesn't mean Rogean is going to simply stop everything hes doing to rush out non classic features in an attempt to ensure the happiness of a bunch of loud mouthed, ungrateful kids with a disgusting sense of entitlement.

all it means is that Rogean is now aware of what the players want, and he knows how Nilbog and myself feel about those topics, and so it gets dumped on his plate with everything else.

that does NOT mean the things u want get bumped to the front of the line.

but please by all means, keep on acting the same way, and see if it yields different results.

ill be closing this thread, and ill update it after Rogean gets back to me. ive never given an exact date because i dont have one. when it comes back to me, i'll share it with you.

until then, have fun and good luck!