Proposed Resist System Changes - Lucy

[Vayder]

Proposed Resist System Changes:


Use current Lucy data for pvpresistbase, pvpresistmax, and pvpresistcalc to determine pvp resists for all classic spells
Add +50% debuff bonus to all resist debuffs


With our powers combined we can be the hope and change this server needs!

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/egil/Bethechange.jpg

[SamwiseBanned]

You would think a melee would have to sacrifice some dps in order to become immune to cc. Not with these changes.

[Zereh]

Lucy does not contain "original" spell data.

Root: 2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

[Vayder]

You would think a melee would have to sacrifice some dps in order to become immune to cc. Not with these changes.

Only immune to root assuming no debuffs. Changes make debuffs matter. Changes make FR/CR/PR/DR matter.

Also melee are going to need some serious gear to avoid other forms of CC like Largarn's Lamentation which requires 197mr to be immune and assuming the Enchanter tashes you first you'll be needing 257mr.

[SamwiseBanned]

You can't argue facts with Nirgon because how he remembers EQ is the way it was despite being shown classic pvp posts from 2000-2001 that say otherwise

[Vayder]

Lucy does not contain "original" spell data.

Root: 2002-03-07 11:32 Initial Entry

Agreed, but neither does the current system.

[SamwiseBanned]

I guess Nirgons not classic argument doesn't apply when it's in his interest.

[Splorf22]

What exactly do those 3 numbers mean?

[SamwiseBanned]

who said anything about his wizard?

[SamwiseBanned]

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2029/mellowdowned.jpg

how the hell is this possible? a warrior tashed was not rooted with 125 mr on this server. clearly HB is exploiting because Destin gets first casted at 171 MR consistantly.

[Lucky]

voted no but honestly idk wut im voted on

[Vayder]

What exactly do those 3 numbers mean?

pvpresistbase = number you start with assuming you're equal level to caster
pvpresistmax = number you start with assuming you're max level below caster
pvpresistcalc = number you have to beat to fully resist the spell

For example, Winged Death:

pvpresistbase = -147
pvpresistmax = -170
pvpresistcalc = 134

You need 134mr to outright resist the spell. If same level as caster you start at -147 which means you need 281mr to outright resist. Which makes the spell essentially unresistable unless you are fully buffed and have a bard.

On the other hand, Wildfire:

pvpresistbase = 12
pvpresistmax = -47
pvpresistcalc = 136

You need 136fr to outright resist the spell. If same level as caster you start at 12 which means you need 124fr to outright resist. Which makes the spell possible to fully resist but difficult unless fully buffed and no debuffs have landed. However if you're 8 levels below the caster you start at -47 and need 183fr to outright resist which is really tough unless you have a bard and no debuffs.

[SamwiseBanned]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH2kMC7iDJg&feature=related

old holo vs Nihilum video of mass pvp. i dont see any one spamming root. btw why was amelinda actually standing there watching?

[Splorf22]

I am not sure your data means what you think it means:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1633&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1608&source=Test
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=190&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1696&source=Test

All of the high-level roots and stuns have a resistcalc-resistbase of over 100.

[Vayder]

I am not sure your data means what you think it means:

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1633&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1608&source=Test
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=190&source=Live
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellraw.html?id=1696&source=Test

All of the high-level roots and stuns have a resistcalc-resistbase of over 100.

Right, we're just talking plain old root at 51mr. As you've noted you're going to need to have higher resists ~120 or so to be immune to the better roots / CC spells.

[Nirgon]

281mr sounds about right to resist winged death lol that's awful high. Never saw anyone resist it ever in my days except some mobs.

Sam don't call me out outside of RNF pls kthx.

[SamwiseBanned]

I think the whole thing boils down to balance vs classic. I respect your desire to have a strictly classic server and I hope that works our for you.

[Dullah]

Thats the problem, you have no understanding of whats classic, or how well it was balanced. The people that made EQ were tweaking Rallos zek and the resist tables from beta. It wasn't the afterthought people like to pretend it was so they can still maintain their hardcore badass image while hiding on blue servers.

[SamwiseBanned]

if RZ had it right why is egg shaped pumice not in game as well as fear/charm pcs? if its classic its classic yet its not here and people arent QQing about it.

[Dullah]

Because egg shaped pumice were removed soon as people started catching on. I knew only a handful of people who even had them (myself included). Its 12 years later, and everyone knew about them from launch. The only reason they were left on live was because few knew about them or had them. You can't simulate something that was unknown after its known. You'd have to find a way to distribute them to only 5% of the population.

Your retorts are dull. You're just throwing as much shit against the wall as you can hoping something will stick.

[SamwiseBanned]

still waiting on your 171 mr root tests. balance greater than your vision of classic. i dont think its coincidence that this is a major concern for you now that you play a rogue instead of a conflag wand mule. im sure you have this vision of being the best geared rogue on the server, an unstoppable killing machine even, but its not going to happen :( you will always be known as the guild hopper who couldn't.

[jdklaw]

during live kunark era fire based spells were unresistable and never partialed, i remember this vividly and will argue with anyone to prove my point based on my unmatched memory

[Dullah]

still waiting on your 171 mr root tests. balance greater than your vision of classic. i dont think its coincidence that this is a major concern for you now that you play a rogue instead of a conflag wand mule. im sure you have this vision of being the best geared rogue on the server, an unstoppable killing machine even, but its not going to happen :( you will always be known as the guild hopper who couldn't.


Your bitterness, envy and passive aggression build with every post.

Likening things that were removed or nerfed (because of imbalance) to things that worked in classic EQ, like resists, is flawed logic.

[jdklaw]

your logic is flawed samwise

[Nirgon]

Red general = blue rnf

[jdklaw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvRRXcyX8w

[SearyxTZ]

Sam I am breaking my self-imposed hiatus from this board just to respond to you here.

"Balance versus classic"? Really?

I had written a LONG post articulating the differences of the two resist systems in that Trakanon thread, responding to Rogean. I ended up just nuking it but I'll give you the short form here.

This custom resist system is not even close to being better balanced than live was.

On live: monks and rogues were underpowered pre-epic/tstaff, and middle-of-the-pack once 60 and fully geared. Druids were one of the best (along with SK). I played all three classes on Tallon Zek, so I would know.

Here: Druids are stronger. They can land their retarded DD-root spells here. SKs are also stronger. Paladins, too. Yep... three of the best pvp classes on live were effectively buffed under this custom system. Monks and rogues? They're worse. The weaker classes were effectively nerfed. Classes like bards and enchanters? Their balance is even more polarized and rock-paper-scissors now. They can land things they couldn't before (WTYH, bard mez, etc), but can be rooted and stunned now. It's a mess. All it really does is introduce cheap unavoidable deaths if you happen to be on the wrong side of the random number generator.

I cannot emphasize how good it was for the gameplay to remove CC from the equation. In classic you HAD to be good at sticking to people with a melee to get kills. As a caster, you learned all the jukes and tricks with terrain and kept buffs up like levitate. To me this was much preferred over WoW-EQ where the pvp strategy is dumbed down to spamming CC on one guy. I don't want to play that. I used to drop in on entire raids on my live monk -- here I wouldn't even chance a 1v4 situation because there's a pretty good chance I'd get rooted and zerged if they're spamming a 1.5 second spell with a 10-15% chance to land.

If I was balancing a resist system I would use classic as the baseline + buff enchanter/cleric nukes. That's all that was ever needed.

I get what Null was trying to do in theory by "fixing" unused spell lines, but the fact is certain spell lines have no place in pvp. There was a reason Verant flat-out disabled fear + charm, and made any forms of CC nearly impossible to land unless the target was heavily debuffed. Since I doubt any of the custom designs for eqemu servers are being tested much internally, that 80/20 poll against it after 10 months of player testing is all the feedback necessary. I don't know if he still checks these forums, though. I sure wouldn't hold it against him for not doing so.

[SamwiseBanned]

im not in favor of those things, they were obviously imba. my point is eq classic dev team did not have everything right. resists are a tricky thing to tweak. compare eq lives start to this one. on this server everyone knew exactly what to get and where. you've taken every advantage you can gain on this server. you joined uprising to level so you could avoid the zerg then ended up joining the high end zerg. at one point Nihilum had the entire server on farm status when the numbered dwindled to 4 to 5 players on at night. to tell me the eq dev team 13 years ago balanced the game around a one guild server is crazytalk.

[SamwiseBanned]

Sam I am breaking my self-imposed hiatus from this board just to respond to you here.

"Balance versus classic"? Really?

I had written a LONG post articulating the differences of the two resist systems in that Trakanon thread, responding to Rogean. I ended up just nuking it but I'll give you the short form here.

This custom resist system is not even close to being better balanced than live was.

On live: monks and rogues were underpowered pre-epic/tstaff, and middle-of-the-pack once 60 and fully geared. Druids were one of the best (along with SK). I played all three classes on Tallon Zek, so I would know.

Here: Druids are stronger. They can land their retarded DD-root spells here. SKs are also stronger. Paladins, too. Yep... three of the best pvp classes on live were effectively buffed under this custom system. Monks and rogues? They're worse. The weaker classes were effectively nerfed. Classes like bards and enchanters? Their balance is even more polarized and rock-paper-scissors now. They can land things they couldn't before (WTYH, bard mez, etc), but can be rooted and stunned now. It's a mess. All it really does is introduce cheap unavoidable deaths if you happen to be on the wrong side of the random number generator.

I cannot emphasize how good it was for the gameplay to remove CC from the equation. In classic you HAD to be good at sticking to people with a melee to get kills. As a caster, you learned all the jukes and tricks with terrain and kept buffs up like levitate. To me this was much preferred over WoW-EQ where the pvp strategy is dumbed down to spamming CC on one guy. I don't want to play that. I used to drop in on entire raids on my live monk -- here I wouldn't even chance a 1v4 situation because there's a pretty good chance I'd get rooted and zerged if they're spamming a 1.5 second spell with a 10-15% chance to land.

If I was balancing a resist system I would use classic as the baseline + buff enchanter/cleric nukes. That's all that was ever needed.

I get what Null was trying to do in theory by "fixing" unused spell lines, but the fact is certain spell lines have no place in pvp. There was a reason Verant flat-out disabled fear + charm, and made any forms of CC nearly impossible to land unless the target was heavily debuffed. Since I doubt any of the custom designs for eqemu servers are being tested much internally, that 80/20 poll against it after 10 months of player testing is all the feedback necessary. I don't know if he still checks these forums, though. I sure wouldn't hold it against him for not doing so.

im not trying to troll you but if you think a monk taking out a whole raid is balanced you are mentally retarded. even surviving 4v1 is laughable and there is no way that is balanced unless you are talking about taking on 4 afkers. if that is truely end game classic eq pvp and that is what this server wants then im for it, i just dont want any part of godmode pvp.

also i have yet to see root spammed unless its to keep the fleeing opposition from plugging in a force on force situation. when FF/Nihilum fought in sol b, noone was mass CCing, everyone was nuking and moving. sure some occasions call for it but as far as two forces colliding head to head, root is not the opening cast.

[SearyxTZ]

Since this is really just the latest malcontent hot topic of the month on the red99 forums though I'd like to put out that the resist system is a very minor problem compared to the issue of not being able to find other players period unless you're 51+ and and in one of the two big guilds.

Roll up a new toon and you'll be able to count the total # of players you see from 1 to 30 on one hand. That's no bueno. I know it's an old archaic game at this point but it is a really hard sell onto anyone playing something more recent (say Guild Wars 2) when it's essentially a single player game. Vile had the right idea with his small scale server and low number of zones.

[SearyxTZ]

im not trying to troll you but if you think a monk taking out a whole raid is balanced you are mentally retarded. even surviving 4v1 is laughable and there is no way that is balanced unless you are talking about taking on 4 afkers. if that is truely end game classic eq pvp and that is what this server wants then im for it, i just dont want any part of godmode pvp.

It wasn't godmode. I usually died (and rarely ever killed anyone in a full raid, it was more just for show / disruption), but not because of someone spamming root onto me. They had to actually do more than just click one spell icon while drooling on their keyboard.

[SamwiseBanned]

I fail to see your survival being any higher if the raid decided to all nuke instead of root. would you rather take 4 roots with a 1/10 chance to land or 4 ice comets?

[SearyxTZ]

4 ice comets


it has a cast time

[SamwiseBanned]

im not in favor of those things, they were obviously imba. my point is eq classic dev team did not have everything right. resists are a tricky thing to tweak. compare eq lives start to this one. on this server everyone knew exactly what to get and where. you've taken every advantage you can gain on this server. you joined uprising to level so you could avoid the zerg then ended up joining the high end zerg. at one point Nihilum had the entire server on farm status when the numbered dwindled to 4 to 5 players on at night. to tell me the eq dev team 13 years ago balanced the game around a one guild server is crazytalk.

[tokso]

Here: Druids are stronger. They can land their retarded DD-root spells here. SKs are also stronger. Paladins, too. Yep... three of the best pvp classes on live were effectively buffed under this custom system. Monks and rogues? They're worse.

you're high as fuck if you think any melees are bad in kunark, whether root is landing 2% or 0% of the time. ESPECIALLY monks.

[SearyxTZ]

and yet this server seemingly balanced against it, unless the goal was to give the guild with the zerg numbers an even greater advantage by allowing them to land cc spells on the 1 guy to their 10


Like I said earlier you can't even chance a 1v3 here because your ability to escape or outmaneuver anyone is severely diminished

[SamwiseBanned]

and yet this server seemingly balanced against it, unless the goal was to give the guild with the zerg numbers an even greater advantage by allowing them to land cc spells on the 1 guy to their 10


Like I said earlier you can't even chance a 1v3 here because your ability to escape or outmaneuver anyone is severely diminished

Not with high MR. again I have never landed Root on Feen, Tehruoh, Wakawaka, or Hughman. I don't even try now. waka is not even a warrior, he just had high mr. some honorable mentions are Ordaga (I think ive rooted once) and Chewie (rooted twice.)

[SearyxTZ]

you're high as fuck if you think any melees are bad in kunark, whether root is landing 2% or 0% of the time. ESPECIALLY monks.

I played both classes. A long tstaff proc opens up possibilities, but let's not consider class balance based on one item.

Winged Death alone is half of a monk's total HPs. The cast time on nullify magic is enough to get hit with starfire/wildfire (or drifting death). I went through that song and dance too many times to count. A Monk's pvp potential was always limited to either catching stupid people in tight indoor corridors or getting lucky with a tstaff proc and popping innerflame.

Why is this more lenient resist system better? Were pure melee overpowered in either old world or kunark? Because I'm pretty sure they were a joke in old world and passable-with-the-best-gear in kunark.

[SamwiseBanned]

Thats the problem, you have no understanding of whats classic, or how well it was balanced. The people that made EQ were tweaking Rallos zek and the resist tables from beta. It wasn't the afterthought people like to pretend it was so they can still maintain their hardcore badass image while hiding on blue servers.

again did the Dev team 13 years ago balance the game around todays population that knows what to get and where? all day you've talked about the magic first root and provided 2 partial logs. never providing accurate level range between you and the caster or your MR. all i wanted was some kind of evidence that you consistently get rooted first cast with 171 mr that you have claimed. i am sure youll find another way to reply without answering anything ive asked.

[SamwiseBanned]

I played both classes. A long tstaff proc opens up possibilities, but let's not consider class balance based on one item.

Winged Death alone is half of a monk's total HPs. The cast time on nullify magic is enough to get hit with starfire/wildfire (or drifting death). I went through that song and dance too many times to count. A Monk's pvp potential was always limited to either catching stupid people in tight indoor corridors or getting lucky with a tstaff proc and popping innerflame.

Why is this more lenient resist system better? Were pure melee overpowered in either old world or kunark? Because I'm pretty sure they were a joke in old world and passable-with-the-best-gear in kunark.

if you are trying to balance everquest around 1v1 encounters you are doomed to fail.

this isnt wow. the game was not built around every class being equal. a rogue can barely solo a blue mob but should fair well against 3 players?

despite the rogues lack of durability, he still tops most dps charts. same goes for pvp, he may not take down a group of players but when you throw him into group pvp encounters, he becomes a dps monster especially since rogues/monks arent a priorty target when there are casters running around. you have to look at balance from all sides not just being a solo ganker.

[SearyxTZ]

What are you talking about dude, haha. This resist system pushes it towards WoW and away from classic EQ. I think that was sort of Null's intention.

I respect him but I personally hated WoW PvP when I played it (warrior.... auto-charge to target, use 92342 forms of CC, kill guy in three seconds). What I liked about classic EQ is how not like WoW it was, with some fights lasting 10+ minutes and tons of manual movement/chasing/juking involved.

[SamwiseBanned]

ive seen zero examples of root breaking mass pvp. ive also been in 0 pvp battles where root was the deciding factor of who won.

[SearyxTZ]

Also a rogue couldn't "fare well against 3 players", but he wouldn't eat an automatic death to a cheap spell that keeps him in one place with 0 chance of escape since he's not going to be channeling his pumice stone cast through anything. That's the difference.

On live the rogue would die only to good players who were able to stick to him.

Here he dies to bad players who spam root and get lucky with the resist rolls.


Should ask Gloinz how he feels about it since he's actually doing this exact scenario at 50+ against Nihilum. Probably dies a lot even though he shouldn't.

[tokso]

I played both classes. A long tstaff proc opens up possibilities, but let's not consider class balance based on one item.

Winged Death alone is half of a monk's total HPs. The cast time on nullify magic is enough to get hit with starfire/wildfire (or drifting death). I went through that song and dance too many times to count. A Monk's pvp potential was always limited to either catching stupid people in tight indoor corridors or getting lucky with a tstaff proc and popping innerflame.

Why is this more lenient resist system better? Were pure melee overpowered in either old world or kunark? Because I'm pretty sure they were a joke in old world and passable-with-the-best-gear in kunark.

so now it's outdoors 1v1s that are the problem? I thought it was the 5v1s where everyone spammed root?

everyone doing endgame (pretty much everyone since this server has like 80 pop) is going to be in those "tight indoor corridors". you seriously must be playing a different game than I am if you think melees are only "passable at best".

[Nirgon]

On live I had some very, very scuffles that coulda gone either way. They ended up with one of us zoning or completely eating shit if we got greedy.

Thorf comes to mind. He even left me his account when he quit. I ended up moving it to legends when that came out, playing it to 65 and 300+ AA and raiding some.

Reefman the Assassin chasing me with his fucking primal bow was another fun example. If I didn't have my epic, Jesus.

[SamwiseBanned]

ive seen zero examples of root breaking mass pvp. ive also been in 0 pvp battles where root was the deciding factor of who won.

[SamwiseBanned]

What are you talking about dude, haha. This resist system pushes it towards WoW and away from classic EQ. I think that was sort of Null's intention.

I respect him but I personally hated WoW PvP when I played it (warrior.... auto-charge to target, use 92342 forms of CC, kill guy in three seconds). What I liked about classic EQ is how not like WoW it was, with some fights lasting 10+ minutes and tons of manual movement/chasing/juking involved.

the thing is there is pretty much CC immunity here, you just have to work for it. i dont see how this is a problem on a game that has been out for 13 years. there is no unknown or new gear to find. its all in the wiki. quit comparing the population in 99 to the population now.

[SamwiseBanned]

exactly what was considered balanced for the playerbase 13 years ago cannot be balanced for todays emu community.

[tokso]

the thing is there is pretty much CC immunity here, you just have to work for it. i dont see how this is a problem on a game that has been out for 13 years. there is no unknown or new gear to find. its all in the wiki. quit comparing the population in 99 to the population now.

^

all there is, is MASSIVE exaggeration about how much root actually lands and some dumb theorycrafting about how that will affect pvp, when pvp is in fact fine.

(or as fine as shitty EQ pvp can be)

[SamwiseBanned]

notice Destin remains quiet when valid points are brought up. well at least it shut him up.

[SearyxTZ]

so now it's outdoors 1v1s that are the problem? I thought it was the 5v1s where everyone spammed root?

These two things aren't mutually exclusive.




all there is, is MASSIVE exaggeration about how much root actually lands and some dumb theorycrafting about how that will affect pvp, when pvp is in fact fine.

(or as fine as shitty EQ pvp can be)

Except it's not. It's not "better balanced" than classic was, and only 20% of people who voted in the poll favor it.

I agree this is being exaggerated, though. Quirks in the resist system didn't stop me from playing here. Most people would just deal with it / avoid playing the classes which are adversely affected by it.

Bigger population-stifling problem == 1-50 game being devoid of player interaction. This server is a really hard sell on casuals. It has its core hardcore contingent though, so whatever.

[SamwiseBanned]

if this was such a broken mechanic why have only 14 voted? i think people are hesitant to commit towards easier cc immunity because this change will benefit Nihilum more than anyone. all those melees with CoF and other best in slot gonna roll around like John Rambo being cc immune with LITTLE sacrifice to dps/hps. tbh i would love to see the system reverted to said changes and watch what happens to pvp or the server population for that matter.

[Dullah]

notice Destin remains quiet when valid points are brought up. well at least it shut him up.

At this point, I'm almost certain you are presently high on crack. What more is there to say?

[SearyxTZ]

Sam I don't think it would do anything for server population.


Start a new character and you'll see why server population is what it is.

Overthere on TZ was 90 people in the zone. Overthere here is 2 people in the zone. EQ's pve was centered around grouping with other players, its economy based around lots of players being in one zone, and its pvp dependent on being able to actually find other players to attack.

/guildwar on blue would be more classic red than this box is

[Dullah]

Thats the problem, you have no understanding of whats classic, or how well it was balanced. The people that made EQ were tweaking Rallos zek and the resist tables from beta. It wasn't the afterthought people like to pretend it was so they can still maintain their hardcore badass image while hiding on blue servers.
Your bitterness, envy and passive aggression build with every post.

Likening things that were removed or nerfed (because of imbalance) to things that worked in classic EQ, like resists, is flawed logic.
Sam been down for the count since this...

now he just keeps popping at his bind here attacking me tho I'm trying to let him LNS.

[SamwiseBanned]

At this point, I'm almost certain you are presently high on crack. What more is there to say?

yup avoids responding to valid points

- you claim balance was obtained during classic era but suggest we use lucy spell data from 2002 post luclin. you also mean to tell me that meta game today is the same it was 13 years ago. there is no way the devs 13 years ago balanced resists around what the current population knows, especially when one guild went uncontested for MONTHS.

- ive been in zero mass pvp battles where root tilted the battle one way or the other.

- ive seen zero proof of you 171 mr claims to being first casted consistently. I have however seen ss and empirical data suggesting otherwise.

and now Destin will begin zone hopping.

EDIT: i think you might be confused on how balance for resists might be obtained. surely the availability of mr gear for the average player was considered. do you at least agree with that logic? or do you think the numbers were completely made up on the spot?

[Dullah]

Every single argument you make is putting words in my mouth or embellishing on what I say. I never once said shit about Lucy, though I'd take anything closer to classic than the present system. Do a search, lucy was never said in any post I've made.

You're lying, you rooted me and nizzar in the same fight, with your bat spam stunning nizzar preventing him to pumice. Also forced me to wand myself (and your pet after) to survive. Stop lying.

I never ever said root lands consistently at 171mr. I said there a problem with resists, and it seems to be worst with first casts. I've been rooted dozens of times first try with 110+ mr, with as HIGH as 171mr.

You mention Hughman, and never rooting him. Talked to him a week ago. Says when he returned few weeks ago, he was still getting rooted with his mr (which was highest on server). Guess what, he hasn't logged on since we had that conversation...

[SearyxTZ]

all those melees with CoF and other best in slot gonna roll around like John Rambo being cc immune with LITTLE sacrifice to dps/hps.

A Monk has to sacrifice virtually all +HP items just to get 120 MR. I usually had less HPs in my resist gear than shamans did.

My PoP-era monk was only running around with 145. Check it http://eq.magelo.com/profile/378704


The classic system would be better for new players competing against Nihilum and going into outnumbered situations. That goes without saying. Root landing means you're dead game over in anything but a 1v1.

[SamwiseBanned]

1. you voted yes to the proposed 2002 lucy changes, i assumed you voted yes because you were in favor of them.

2. that situation was different, I had a hasted/buffed pet and was completely out numbered. my game plan was to run around and divide you up while pet did some work. I dont think I used one nuke that whole battle because I was prepare to re-charm. more than half the battle i was just running around avoiding Nihilum casters until I was finally rooted at the spot in my SS. you never wanded my pet unless you did it after I died because it was still charmed as Northwest or some shammy killed me.

3. again you claim this and that but provide no proof other than 2 incomplete logs that fail to show level range and your MR. If you CAN roll with 171 mr then do so and root will no longer be a problem.

4. to be fair ive only attempted to root hughman when i was in my 30s/low 40s. i dunno I guess Tehruoh has some hacks because im not sure if hes ever been rooted.

[SamwiseBanned]

DESTIN: i think you might be confused on how balance for resists might be obtained. surely the availability of mr gear for the average player was considered. do you at least agree with that logic? or do you think the numbers were completely made up on the spot?

what factors do you think went into balancing the resist system 13 years ago?

[SearyxTZ]

Going back to lurking now. Godspeed + may your neckbeards shine brightly in norrath.

If I come back to this after GW2 gets stale I will roll a druid or wizzie and torment melees so I don't have to be the guy talking about classic resists.

[SamwiseBanned]

DESTIN: i think you might be confused on how balance for resists might be obtained. surely the availability of mr gear for the average player was considered. do you at least agree with that logic? or do you think the numbers were completely made up on the spot?

what factors do you think went into balancing the resist system 13 years ago?

since Destin is down for the count, I am asking all of you. What factors were considered when balancing pvp resists? If the knowledge and availability of resist gear was a factor, would you not think it would be different 13 years later when everything is written out on a wiki?

[Dullah]

Balance was EQ classic resists. It was fine. I enjoyed playing all classes.

[SamwiseBanned]

What made EQ classic resists balanced? again you fail to say anything relevant to the questions or points i brought up. Would you not think that the availability of resist gear (both knowledge of where to get the resist gear and the ability to camp it) for the average player played a part in determining the resists? Surely they didnt just come up with random numbers and it was good to go.

[Dullah]

In my 1400 posts, no less than 200 of them have been about resists. Do a search.

[SamwiseBanned]

lol Destin can't think of a way to turn this around. probably asking Nizzar what to do. winning :)

[Dullah]

You are bind rushing, with a pile of your corpses at your feet. Fortunately you can't delevel past 1.

I'm not going to be trolled by some cracked out dude with ADD who is too lazy to read what I've said for the last year. Just in the last few pages, Searyx has already reiterated what I've said in numerous posts.

Step away dude, you are just embarrassing yourself.

[Renk]

Unless I've missed something, so far it seems like Samwise is the only one to do any significant testing on this server and to consider how several actual pvp battles have gone here, rather than theory/old-memory/hyperbole.

[Nizzarr]

What testing is there to do?

I need 140 mr to achieve 95% resist rate as a monk, to this day -- I still need to equip a shield of rainbow hues to achieve that. I needed 51 mr to resist root in classic eq.

I dont like this instagib version of everquest where every nukes lands for full unless you have 20 pieces of resist gear equipped. I dont like to be rooted/snared/mesmerized/stunned by people 8 levels lower than me when I have twice as much MR as the needed classic equivalent.

Fact is, theres no melee on this server. Only a select few who had access to the really good gear are sticking around. Everyone else is running "non classic" wizard 3sec nukes that were "easily" resisted back on classic.

Vayder or nirgon, pull out some numbers for draughts while you're at it.

Want a tip against rogues and monks? Damage shields and dont stay in melee range. move out of the way. I heard if you run, I cant catch you.

[mitic]

while we are at it, t-staff 8-sec stun is unresistable in pvp. monks wtfpwn any other class right now, thank you!

[Smedy]

wizards gon hate

hook me up with tstaff pals, i am suffering badly atm, trance sticks are SHIT in pvp and no one gets fooled that it's actually a trance stick and not a tstaff im holding anymore.

[Dullah]

Ya, in the few rounds of attack you get off on a caster in pvp, the random t-staff proc is definitely reliable. A caster could survive about 10 rounds of a t-staff before killed, which means when fighting a monk you might be lucky enough to see it proc once every 5 fights.

[Haul]

I played both classes. A long tstaff proc opens up possibilities, but let's not consider class balance based on one item.

Winged Death alone is half of a monk's total HPs. The cast time on nullify magic is enough to get hit with starfire/wildfire (or drifting death). I went through that song and dance too many times to count. A Monk's pvp potential was always limited to either catching stupid people in tight indoor corridors or getting lucky with a tstaff proc and popping innerflame.

Why is this more lenient resist system better? Were pure melee overpowered in either old world or kunark? Because I'm pretty sure they were a joke in old world and passable-with-the-best-gear in kunark.

Why is everyone dogging this post, sounds alright to me :cool: I agree too a smart druid owns a monk. Especially with Nature's Touch.

[Haul]

What testing is there to do?

I need 140 mr to achieve 95% resist rate as a monk, to this day -- I still need to equip a shield of rainbow hues to achieve that. I needed 51 mr to resist root in classic eq.

I dont like this instagib version of everquest where every nukes lands for full unless you have 20 pieces of resist gear equipped. I dont like to be rooted/snared/mesmerized/stunned by people 8 levels lower than me when I have twice as much MR as the needed classic equivalent.

Fact is, theres no melee on this server. Only a select few who had access to the really good gear are sticking around. Everyone else is running "non classic" wizard 3sec nukes that were "easily" resisted back on classic.

Vayder or nirgon, pull out some numbers for draughts while you're at it.

Want a tip against rogues and monks? Damage shields and dont stay in melee range. move out of the way. I heard if you run, I cant catch you.

Ya, but back in the day achieving 50-80 mr was difficult without buffs. Items are much more attainable and well known now. I think things are pretty good atm. :D

[SamwiseBanned]

95% to resist root, so roughly 1 in 20 roots will land. explain to me what is going on that allows a caster to spam root 20 times in a row. assuming you are just standing there not dispelling/interrupting that's about 40 seconds of cast time. please dont tell me you are allowing a caster 40 seconds+ to spam 20 roots.

o lawdy the exaggeration here is getting redic. also the last time i interrupted a melee dispelling off his root was never.

I love how each one of your responses manages to say nothing relevant to whats being discussed. You aren't running for office so no need to dodge questions or change the subject. I brought up a simple point. If the availability of resist gear was a factor when balancing resists (and it was), common sense would dictate that resists would need to be tweaked 13 years later when there is no unknown and one guild has been uncontested for months on end. The meta game changes constantly and so games are always re balancing, patching, ect. EQ is no exception.

[Haul]

agreed, shouldn't have to cast root that much

[SamwiseBanned]

the best part is these guys actually have the MR to resist roots but for some reason they dont and then QQ about getting rooted. being immune to CC > 20 extra damage on backstab from stacking STR instead of MR. all a melee needs is a few clicking (JBoots being main one), a weapon, a haste item, and mr.

[Vayder]

Vayder or nirgon, pull out some numbers for draughts while you're at it.




Draught of Fire - 112fr needed
Draught of Ice - 123cr needed
Draught of Jiva - 123mr needed

[mitic]

Draught of Fire - 112fr needed
Draught of Ice - 123cr needed
Draught of Jiva - 123mr needed

at even cons?

[Nirgon]

Yeah those might be just about correct. I know trying to sling at someone who had a full set of diamond gear it was pretty stupid to use anything but lures.

Why do you think we put such a high emphases on dispels? Or landing druid frost for fire spells? Why do you think I like a no drop based system so much? Especially in Velious it became almost futile to try and land things besides lures on people with their Kael armor.

*Immune* to draughts/star fire etc at 120s resists... hum~. Well don't forget, again, on draughts etc there's the -10 resist factor for wizards. I'd hafta check things like stuns which should be as lower or maybe even lower than root. If that lucy data says a stun immunity is 100+ magic... then probably not right. But so far, it matches other classic data I've had pulled. I feel like star fire and wildfire started becoming literally a non factor around like 140 resist with a few landing but not immune. This is a lvl 60 against a level 60. I bet since I did play on an item loot server, and most people did run around in no drop... the caps for spells would be suprisingly low to my eyes given the raw data.

[Nizzarr]

It's not only about roots, its about everything that does crowd control. Anything that removes and or hinder my characters movement,vision or abilities should not be that hard to resist.

These resists actually hinders PVP as a whole -- I will never engage 2 casters or anything combination of caster/melee on my monk. I will run, everytime. Even if they suck ass and drool on their keyboards, they can still root or snare me and im dead.

It's how mostly everyone feels about it too. Its no fun to go into PVP and know that one single CC lands and you're pretty much dead.

Stuns are also worse than roots, I think you need 200 mr to have 95% resist. 140 is like 75%.

I need a GBS and a shield of rainbows hues and gmr to hit 200mr.

[Smedy]

monk with hues shield and gbs is classic dog don't trip

[Nirgon]

GBS ain't hard.

Hues... them shits was a bit rare. Maybe on blue server they have those to go around to monks... but on live that shit wasn't all over the place on pvp servers. Then again, Kunark and vanilla flew by and everyone didn't know everything out of the gate. We didn't have people farming resist sets and shit on day 1 (or charming fire giants and shit either..).

[Vayder]

Stuns are also worse than roots, I think you need 200 mr to have 95% resist. 140 is like 75%.

Lucy data has clr/pal line of stuns at 71mr to be immune. Most stuns are in a similar range with the notable exception of Largarn's Lamentation.

Not sure what the resist rates are like currently here. Again, would need to test.

[Nirgon]

Heh stuns got owned to shit, maybe the chance to resist scaled to 99% very very very quickly and a true immunity was 71. Or that particular line in PvP started at like 75% chance to resist and scaled from there quickly? Something like that. I'd say snares had a way better chance than stuns on resist rate.

[SamwiseBanned]

It's not only about roots, its about everything that does crowd control. Anything that removes and or hinder my characters movement,vision or abilities should not be that hard to resist.

These resists actually hinders PVP as a whole -- I will never engage 2 casters or anything combination of caster/melee on my monk. I will run, everytime. Even if they suck ass and drool on their keyboards, they can still root or snare me and im dead.

It's how mostly everyone feels about it too. Its no fun to go into PVP and know that one single CC lands and you're pretty much dead.

Stuns are also worse than roots, I think you need 200 mr to have 95% resist. 140 is like 75%.

I need a GBS and a shield of rainbows hues and gmr to hit 200mr.
Sorry you feel entitled to being unstoppable against multiple casters but this isn't counter strike. You've admitted you run around with 100 mr then whine when you get rooted. You have the gear to be immune, you are either just being lazy or get off on seeing big numbers in melee dmg. The main people pushing this are two casters who recently rolled melee. Nirgon and cwall don't even play here and haven't pvp in months. Vayder aka duress is new to this server and pvp. He jumped ship to Nihilum after leveling up in VV. meanwhile Nizzar engages kunark dragons that aren't supposed to be in game without a care in the world. I guess the not classic argument doesn't hold up when's it's not in favor of what you want.

[SamwiseBanned]

GBS ain't hard.

Hues... them shits was a bit rare. Maybe on blue server they have those to go around to monks... but on live that shit wasn't all over the place on pvp servers. Then again, Kunark and vanilla flew by and everyone didn't know everything out of the gate. We didn't have people farming resist sets and shit on day 1 (or charming fire giants and shit either..).

Exactly. This server is a different animal and requires further balancing. Go towards the light bro

[Nirgon]

Samwise the thing is, I DID PvP here for months. I spent a ton of time in game and especially when there was a booming population. A lot the PvP was pretty good too, don't get me wrong. But when it came to big group vs group stuff, being root spammed and blown up was just something that couldn't keep me here. Having Emumu cast 5-6 darknesses in a row and 3 stuck at 120-140 MR here was just stupid as shit too.

I was told the entire time "just get some more magic resist and things will be A-OK no worries". Well after I got my tcrown and the first charge of a root net hit me, things were *not* OK. =)

You need to watch your shit here with turning these threads into heavy RNF material. Cwall didn't play as much as the hardcore Holobeards among the group for sure, but he and Vile definitely waned off even more in play time listening in to our chattering. Not that we had any problems killing people here and maintaining an awesome KD ratio... but, truth be told, they were hoping for a more classic EQ experience.

If you want me to come out and say fighting a tstaff monk is going to be a lot harder in a classic system where they don't have to worry about risking items? Yeah, no shit. But if I fight one outdoors and they don't have bags of golem wands? I still like my odds.

Go towards the light bro

I am the light bro.

[Tycko]

Samwise and friends are calling to keep "custom" resists.
Nirgon and friends are calling for "classic" resists.
These two groups will never see eye to eye.

So we are going to have to put up with "custom" resists until Null decides to change it to "classic" if ever.

Each system has it's pros and cons but I am in favor of "classic" because this whole project was based on making it as close to original as possible.

[Nirgon]

Also? If Sam is going around saying he can hardly land root on anyone? What's the problem? Just nail it down as hard fact. The classics and the customs alike can be happy with that.

Not to mention? I think they might appreciate the play style a lot more.

I don't think item loot would *kill* the server either if a classic resist was in place either. Personally if you look at how low those values are for immunity on some lines? You'll see why I think resist gear should be *risked*. If you can't get spam rooted reliably? It can't be THAT hard to bag gear unless a mega concentrated gank slams you.

[CrystalBlue]

Sam I don't think it would do anything for server population.


Start a new character and you'll see why server population is what it is.

Overthere on TZ was 90 people in the zone. Overthere here is 2 people in the zone. EQ's pve was centered around grouping with other players, its economy based around lots of players being in one zone, and its pvp dependent on being able to actually find other players to attack.

/guildwar on blue would be more classic red than this box is

When people "start new characters" over and over again like you and fail to break level 40 one year into the box, then yeah its just gonna be you perpetually by yourself in Oasis of Marr.

Get 51+ and come to KC if you want pvp. Expecting everyone to sit around with you in gfay "pvping" one year into box is asking for too much.

[Cholk]

Samwise and friends are calling to keep "custom" resists.
Nirgon and friends are calling for "classic" resists.
These two groups will never see eye to eye.

So we are going to have to put up with "custom" resists until Null decides to change it to "classic" if ever.

Each system has it's pros and cons but I am in favor of "classic" because this whole project was based on making it as close to original as possible.



Its more like anyone who can cast root wants to keep it, most melee want to take it away. Nirgon is different, he wants classic resist to pave the way for item loot. I smell to much propaganda in this whole thread.

[Nirgon]

Searyx and Holo try having a civil discussion.

Look who are the ones turning it into RNF.. who were the bad guys here again? =P

I think classic resists might happen but item loot won't so far into things. No hidden agenda there, I want it and would try to ask for it... but I don't have high hopes. I think you guys could learn to appreciate no drop stuff and more of a risk/reward based pvp system.

[SamwiseBanned]

For me it's classic resists vs balanced resists. No one spams root against known geared people. Root is not spammed during mass pvp. Root is not the deciding factor in mass pvp. Do you guys think when balancing resists 13 years ago, the devs had anything like our server in mind?

[CrystalBlue]

monk with hues shield and gbs is classic dog don't trip

Every Nihilum Monk has a rainbow shield, oh and a t-staff.

So when they become immune to "all spells that hinder movement and/or sight" what should be the balance check on them?

I'm glad people are posting these other numbers about at what resist rate you basically become immune to spells according to Lucy. I hope it opens up the eyes of the druids/wizards/shaman/etc to see how much of their spellbook will become 100 percent useless and insta-resistable if our resist system was set to match that.

"but high resists are so hard to get!"

lol on our 80 pop server we will ALL be running around with best in slot before the year is done. (especially Nihilum, but they are already mostly all best in slot. Of course theres VP in a month or so. Some tasty weapons and resist gear in there...... I hope all your helpless and useless casters enjoy it when the Nihilum monks/rogues/SK's etc. come out of VP and WTF eat you all alive lol)

But of course meeles so bad on our server, only balance will be to make 95 percent of all casters spellbooks useless in pvp!! Please think of the poor meele!!!!!

lawl

[heartbrand]

To quote the prophet Gongshow: "cwall is a nonfactor baddie"

[heartbrand]

Every Nihilum Monk has a rainbow shield, oh and a t-staff.

So when they become immune to "all spells that hinder movement and/or sight" what should be the balance check on them?

I'm glad people are posting these other numbers about at what resist rate you basically become immune to spells according to Lucy. I hope it opens up the eyes of the druids/wizards/shaman/etc to see how much of their spellbook will become 100 percent useless and insta-resistable if our resist system was set to match that.

"but high resists are so hard to get!"

lol on our 80 pop server we will ALL be running around with best in slot before the year is done. (especially Nihilum, but they are already mostly all best in slot. Of course theres VP in a month or so. Some tasty weapons and resist gear in there...... I hope all your helpless and useless casters enjoy it when the Nihilum monks/rogues/SK's etc. come out of VP and WTF eat you all alive lol)

But of course meeles so bad on our server, only balance will be to make 95 percent of all casters spellbooks useless in pvp!! Please think of the poor meele!!!!!

lawl


at least the exp is so bad as to make no one want to play them =p

[SamwiseBanned]

Yup these guys aren't looking at the big picture. Glad I'm not the only one who cares more about server health and balance than gearing up an unstoppable melee to make a name for myself on an emulated EQ server

[CrystalBlue]

Hues... them shits was a bit rare. Maybe on blue server they have those to go around to monks... but on live that shit wasn't all over the place on pvp servers. ..).


lol you really do have NO idea what is going on , on the server do you? This is why I told you to log in and then maybe open your mouth about what should happen.

In a few short months they will all be running around in the +15 save to all Phara Dar robes too.


"but change resists everyone!!"

you fool, you have no idea what you are asking for

[Tycko]

Every Nihilum Monk has a rainbow shield, oh and a t-staff.


This statement is false.

[Nirgon]

Luckily you can't use the tstaff and shield at same time so cool out sir.

And stop blowing things out of proportion, let's keep shit honest.

[CrystalBlue]

Samwise the thing is, I DID PvP here for months. .


Months and months ago, before Null tweaked snare/root/whirl.

Go into the light bro. You have no clue what you are talking about as far as what is best for the server.

[Nizzarr]

server health = three times as many wizards online than the number of rogue monk and warrior combined. Notice the non-plural use of rogue monk and warrior. Because whenever nihilum isnt raiding its what it is.

[Nirgon]

I'm being told that regarding the bug fixes I'm putting up for blue (that would effect things here) too. Defense of invis pulling etc and that I have no idea what I'm talking about. /shrug

I think I know what's going on brotha.

[SamwiseBanned]

Nizzar and Destin dodging a simple question I've asked repeatedly. If the availability of resist gear for the avg player was a factor in balancing eq pvp 13 years ago, how the hell can you argue that things today don't need to be modified.

[heartbrand]

server health = three times as many wizards online than the number of rogue monk and warrior combined. Notice the non-plural use of rogue monk and warrior. Because whenever nihilum isnt raiding its what it is.

But Nizzarr... wouldn't adding item loot fix that? TROLOLOLOL, nirgon so dum

[Nirgon]

Have you noticed none of the NPCs here have ever said

"Time to die %t!" -- especially common if aggro'ing a town guard.

Yeah I catch things like that playing.. most people don't. That's one you might be able to agree with.

Where's the patch notes! Oh it wasn't broken on live.. just here :).

Heartbrand what is your problem dude lol. Does my interest in item loot make your jew senses go crazy?

[CrystalBlue]

This statement is false.

<monk xyz> got his shield last week, which one is still missing one that still plays?

And I know they all have t-staffs.

[SamwiseBanned]

This is a low populated pvp server. Of course melees will be the least populated demographic. Resists have nothing to do with it.

[Nirgon]

^ Neither did guard assist which I said we should wait on, uh right? Other resident genuises were in the feelings of "no its fine lol just release it now now now now". Boy am I sorry anyone listened to them.

The VZTZ crowd thinks tstaffs were a 1 in 1,000,000,000 drop rate, that's why you see these comments Trollborn. Kind of like how they hit the ceiling when they find out 51 magic resist was enough to ignore root.

[SamwiseBanned]

Nizzar and Destin dodging a simple question I've asked repeatedly. If the availability of resist gear for the avg player was a factor in balancing eq pvp 13 years ago, how the hell can you argue that things today don't need to be modified.

Must be wearing a lot of agi gear to keep dodging this question.

[heartbrand]

Because advocating item loot on an 80 pop server, where nihilum already has an incredibly large item / number / level advantage is dumb as fuck. I've tried hard to build something, a second guild, something that can raid accomplish things etc., and it's been hard given the pop / discrepancy of gear and level and what not but it's working. There's been so more civility on this server lately, LNS being honored, trash talk being toned down a bit, less asshattery in OOC and shit. You know what would kill all of that? Item loot. A bunch of nihilum members in full no drop gear raping the rest of the server and taking their loot. You want to see people rage quit and not log on again? You want to see this server return to the 30 pop it had, 90% of which was nihilum? Put in item loot.

I thought you want to encourage PVP. Item loot will just mean everyone carries gate pots @ all times, hugs zone lines, and never goes within three zones of possible PVP. It's bad enough with the exp loss on PVP death. This is not Rallos Zek. There are 80-100 people playing here, many of whom are not hardcore PVPers and will not stick around to see their items looted one by one.

[Nirgon]

In an item loot system? I'd be happy as fuck to be a 59 rogue with a serpent tooth (pre epic) or vox spear.

You don't think people would camp out in ninja places to try to log in during a pull and gank tanks for dragon haste and shit? Give people something to do rather than kill them for 3% of their xp and then get corpse camped themselves? Heh.

Risk vs reward = fun

I think of people learned to bag their gear and the correct resist system was in place, you'd be fine with it.

[Nizzarr]

This is a low populated pvp server. Of course melees will be the least populated demographic. Resists have nothing to do with it.

The melee retention could be greatly improved with classic resists. Thats troublesome isnt it? thinking there could be more people on the server by changing the resist system.

[Vayder]

I'm glad people are posting these other numbers about at what resist rate you basically become immune to spells according to Lucy. I hope it opens up the eyes of the druids/wizards/shaman/etc to see how much of their spellbook will become 100 percent useless and insta-resistable if our resist system was set to match that.


Do I have to post this again?

Necro
Lifetaps - essentially unresistable
Fire Line - essentially unresistable
Cessation of Cor - need 197 dr to be immune
Envenomed Bolt - need 175 pr to be immune
Scent of Terris - need 181 pr to be immune

Shaman
Malo - unresistable
Bane of Nife - 197pr to be immune
Pox of Bertox - 197dr to be immune

Wizard
Lures - essentially unresistable

Magician
Mala - unresistable
Malosini - 197mr to be immune

Enchanter
Tashanian - unresistable
Rapture - essentially unresistable
Asphyxiate - 197mr to be immune
Largarn's Lamentation - 197mr to be immune
Cripple - 181 mr to be immune

Druid
Winged Death - essentially unresistable
Breath of Ro - 181 fr to be immune

And that's not even taking into account the effect of debuffs. As in maybe, just maybe, a PVP server should emphasize tashing and maloing players like we do NPCs. Nor is it taking into account the ability to pumice off resist buffs.

So for instance, your precious root which you say will become absolutely useless:

If an enchanter is trying to Fetter a player in pvp that player needs 123mr to be immune. If the enchanter pillages and tashes the player would need 183mr to be immune. Now who in the world is going to be rocking 183mr unbuffed?

What the change does is make pvp tactics worth something. You might actually need to pillage GMR and perhaps cast tash before you start spamming spells.

[heartbrand]

The melee retention could be greatly improved with classic resists. Thats troublesome isnt it? thinking there could be more people on the server by changing the resist system.

Honestly the biggest reason there aren't more melees is because the pop is so low it can't sustain enough viable groups for them to all EXP in. I've seen quite a few melees rage quit and reroll in my day, and that's what it boils down to, not resists. Having said that, I think resists do need to be fixed.

[Nirgon]

Bards have decent debuffs as well. It's not just the enchanter/shaman show.

[Nizzarr]

Must be wearing a lot of agi gear to keep dodging this question.

and how is it more available? can you explain this to me? are the drop rates better?

People know where shit drops? well this goes for everyone sir. Are you telling us that casters dont know where the good things drop but the melees does?

[SamwiseBanned]

The melee retention could be greatly improved with classic resists. Thats troublesome isnt it? thinking there could be more people on the server by changing the resist system.

I assure you if there was constant groupage there would be more melees. Again you dodge the real issue which is balance. If you are truely concerned about melees then how about you offer free pls? I promise you people will take you up on the offer and roll melee

[heartbrand]

1-50 isn't the issue for melees, anyone can buy some quick PL, it's the 51+ grind, the fact there's only so many chanters and clerics to go around, etc.

[SamwiseBanned]

and how is it more available? can you explain this to me? are the drop rates better?

People know where shit drops? well this goes for everyone sir. Are you telling us that casters dont know where the good things drop but the melees does?

Exactly everyone knows where everything drops and for months one guild farmed the entire server without being contested. I don't think classic resists we're balanced on what this server has become.

If you truly wanted balance you would have split Nihilum in half when it was just you guys on the server. BalancE > all

[Nizzarr]

I assure you if there was constant groupage there would be more melees. Again you dodge the real issue which is balance. If you are truely concerned about melees then how about you offer free pls? I promise you people will take you up on the offer and roll melee

Whatever I do will not change anything. I can pl a rogue to 50. sweet. that rogue gets killed by droolers casters over and over and quit.

Sweet. Sorry cant help you get 140 mr, Dear rogue. Enjoy the dirtnaps provided by unresistable spells.


What I can do though is lobby for a better/balanced resist systems. Which in turns makes melees more viable. Which in turns, makes people want to play more melees.

Again dont take extremes, Extremes isnt what new players/non-top end players on this server are living. I`m lucky and any melees in nihilum is lucky enough to have all best in slot raid gear for the most part, yea we'll do ok in the current resist system but joe buddy isnt as lucky.

[Nirgon]

The melee retention could be greatly improved with classic resists. Thats troublesome isnt it? thinking there could be more people on the server by changing the resist system.

Right.

And Heartbrand was smart unlike others who quit. A lot of people made human warriors and shit as their first characters, he made a mage. Personally I think you have to be dumber than a box of rocks to do that and those people can blame themselves. Further on that thought, you can't blame the system for people doing that.

[SamwiseBanned]

My first toon on here was a warrior when population was close to 200. Ogre warrior with no groups around Guk so I traveled to faydark by boat. Once I got to gfay it took 2 days of logging in and out before someone would bind me. After finally being bound i spent the next 2 days lfg off an on. Finally I said fuck it and rolled a druid

[SamwiseBanned]

Whatever I do will not change anything. I can pl a rogue to 50. sweet. that rogue gets killed by droolers casters over and over and quit.

Sweet. Sorry cant help you get 140 mr, Dear rogue. Enjoy the dirtnaps provided by unresistable spells.


What I can do though is lobby for a better/balanced resist systems. Which in turns makes melees more viable. Which in turns, makes people want to play more melees.

Again dont take extremes, Extremes isnt what new players/non-top end players on this server are living. I`m lucky and any melees in nihilum is lucky enough to have all best in slot raid gear for the most part, yea we'll do ok in the current resist system but joe buddy isnt as lucky.

Pl my rogue to 50 and I'll play hIm exclusively.

[Nirgon]

Right and you making that warrior is a result of population / groups. Nothing about the resist system is good for starting melees. I made a cleric twink with hollowed bone bracers, 7mr bracers, etc etc and had a red con mage's pet land roots on me every time at around 80ish mr. I can't imagine if I was a melee dealing with that. You'd be fucked.

Yes, Nizzar's monk is going to be better off. But so would I playing guerilla warfare with Bundy as a bard + wizard. We could do so much more.. like not have to worry about getting snared/rooted and virtually insta gibbed.

The same minds that came up with the classic trilogy came up with this resist system. Not to mention, there was an entire server with a population of more than red + blue combined that didn't think "PvP sucks in this system".

If you think PvP is just entirely a side thought in this game? There were 4 (5 with discord) servers with pvp and the most memorable and grand scale GM events were about it. They even got down to super minor things like which items and tactics were and weren't allowed. They apparently cared a whole lot.

[SamwiseBanned]

Weird I've never had Mage pet root land me when i just had enduring magic. That being said I havent seen a Mage use earth pet over air in pvp since feb.

[heartbrand]

I dunno I just don't get rooted on checkraise with any level of consistency. Just not experiencing this issue. Other resists though are a different story.

[Nirgon]

Sam and to other critics thinking I'm trying to destroy the server with my wishes for item loot... there's so many better ways to shit things up. Why would I go for something so unlikely to be implemented if that was my intent? : /

I could post gore gifs and shit from a thousand proxies like Cast did if I wanted to drive people away. Or post logs of things the heads here have said out of context from months/years ago.

Trust me?

I dunno I just don't get rooted on checkraise with any level of consistency.

Right, so I don't see all the fuss. It only helps lower level/lesser geared melees not get completely fucked. It relieves frustration of gear choices and gives guerilla fighters (esp newer ones) at least a chance.

[SamwiseBanned]

Resist gear is obtainable either by camping stuff your self or farming whatever u can for plat. Getting xp on a non twink melee solo is not.

[CrystalBlue]

The same minds that came up with the classic trilogy came up with this resist system.


Those minds did not envison half the servers meeles running around in rainbow shields and phara dar robes either (and every other best in slot resist gear item), which will soon be the case. How do you think Trakanon was beat with 26 and the other kunark raidmobs with sometimes less? Shitty resists?

***** please


Those minds were also constantly adjusting the system behind the scenes. Stop pretending they had a perfect system and knew what they were doing flawlessly.

I'm convinced you have a secret directive from Cast to deep-six the server. This lunacy you are pushing on our 80 pop server coupled with item loot can mean nothing less.

[Nirgon]

Stop pretending they had a perfect system and knew what they were doing flawlessly.



No u.

And I won't stand for you blaspheming the classic Everquest trilogy. I will go Swampmad on your ass.

[CrystalBlue]

I dunno I just don't get rooted on checkraise with any level of consistency. Just not experiencing this issue. Other resists though are a different story.

I heard through a grape vine that you killed a famous enchanter yesterday, 1v1 is this true?

BUT I THOUGHT THE RESIST SYSTEM MADE YOU A FREE TARGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You were rooted the entire fight and blinded/stunned/etc, right checkraise????


Nirgon so clueless.

[heartbrand]

The only thing interesting about item loot is the nihilum app who kills someone mid raid and loots their cloak of flames and then gate pots out. Otherwise it's a terrible system that will discourage PVP, make the Zerg guilds bigger, kill out anyone else who isn't a part of those guilds, increase griefing, more rage quitting, etc etc

[Nirgon]

Trollborn, I'm hardly clueless. Again, resorting to ridiculous statements and extremes to have a discussion.

[SamwiseBanned]

I'd say 90% of the melees who quit before max level did do because groups were far and from between. To make matters worse new clerics and enchanters are soloing through the first 40 levels. I cannot count the number of times I've seen a cleric who preferred soloing unrest to grouping including myself at times. I remember stasis saying if his buddies didn't carry him to 50 he would not have made it.

[CrystalBlue]

Oh i forgot Nirgons favorite spell, whirl.

you were WHIRLED the entire fight too checkraise.. RIGHT?????????? I mean you were just a baby helpless to that caster I bet.

lawl, Nirgon so clueless.

[Nirgon]

Right, I agree. This isn't just a melee vs caster discussion from me. For a lot of people involved? It is. If you're in that boat, you haven't thought everything through.

I was definitely spam whirled when I played. That's as bad or worse than fear being usable in PvP. I hope that spell is useless now.

[CrystalBlue]

I'd say 90% of the melees who quit before max level did do because groups were far and from between. To make matters worse new clerics and enchanters are soloing through the first 40 levels. I cannot count the number of times I've seen a cleric who preferred soloing unrest to grouping including myself at times.

This is the 100 percent truth.

Frankly, those "group support" classes just solo more times then not, especially in the lower end game. This is why I keep pushing the xp bonus to be made into a group bonus, the bigger the group the higher the xp bonus.

This will get the clerics out of unrest, the druids away from specters, and the enchanters away from wtf ever they charm solo and into groups.. making friends and building in-game relationships that KEEP people playing.

Its a huge issue and deserves far more attention then all these other issues combined. Its a shame its so ignored and neglected.

/inc another 30 solo classes who solo to end level and then quit and /inc another 30 meeles who solo to 15, cant find groups, and quit. rinse/repeat

[Nirgon]

Those soloing support classes have that option, its classic mechanics and maybe they should be more team focused on their goals... like I hear you guys preaching as a guild motto. I predicted this one coming too :P.

[CrystalBlue]

Those soloing support classes have that option, its classic mechanics and maybe they should be more team focused on their goals... like I hear you guys preaching as a guild motto. I predicted this one coming too :P.

Grouping bonus IS classic.

Double (and more at lower levels) xp bonus even for soloers.. is NOT.


I thought you'd support this Nirgon, but I guess it would interfere with your solo raptor quads.

I detect that Cast agenda in you surfaceing again.

[heartbrand]

This discussion from people who don't play here is lol. Yesterday we had some six v six PVP in seb. Was me, a wizard, sk, chanter, Mage, cleric vs cleric monk chanter wizard necro chanter. You would think from this discussion I was rooted the entire fight, mezzed and whirled. Except that didn't happen once. Btw the only people to survive? Monk and warrior. Intredasting

[SamwiseBanned]

I'm not preaching anything. You say there are no melees because the current resist system is jacked. Why would you two (destin/Nizzar) knowingly switch to melees if there are major balance issues in your opinion. I guess you guys are taking one for the team?

[CrystalBlue]

very inredasting, but your SK died?

OMG IF HE WAS ONLY SPELL IMMUNE LIKE NIRGON PREACHES!!!!!!!!!!!

I bet he quit the server 5 mins after that pvp.

[SamwiseBanned]

Lol whirl was fixed a long time ago. Just proves Nirgon had no idea on the current state of the server.

[CrystalBlue]

Lol whirl was fixed a long time ago. Just proves Nirgon had no idea on the current state of the server.

So true, from many of the things he has said in this very thread, he has NO clue what the situation is like on the ground here.

[SamwiseBanned]

People who quit because they were rooted with low mr would have probly quit anyway. The funny thing about all this is casters can be just as easily rooted as melees if not more. Casters sacrificing wis/int/mana gear in favor of mr are more crippled than melees who sacrifice str/hps. Once a caster is oom he's as good ad dead, melee however is unlimited dps. I've definitely been on the receiving end of roots more than I've rooted people.

[SamwiseBanned]

Also root is usually used to escape a melee or stop one from plugging. Never have I opened with root when I was on the offense. Usually a nuke or dispel. Tbh these stories of being chain rooted and killed be melee assist train have never happened on this server.

[Vayder]

Other resists though are a different story.

Truth

[SamwiseBanned]

Please tell me more about your mass pvp experience on this server. Have yet to see rootspam as a group or raid tactic in even number battles. Ofc people are going to try to root a melee or anyone for that matter from fleeing to plug but that has nothing to do with trivializing pvp.

[Nirgon]

There's a grouping bonus that is classic, sure. But that doesn't mean you can't make more xp duo'ing.

I don't think you know how classic xp distribution systems work.

Who says I won't quad burning woods instead of the over camped raptors? If I have to gate out from raptors due to a gank, that's kind of a super pain in the ass waiting for the boat again.

You're a very narrow minded person and most people think you're an idiot for it. I'll clue you in on this one. Consider the whole "rerolling" forum accounts from Trollborn thing after posting a good bye and obviously being the same person. Do you think anyone at all takes you seriously?

I said *I hope* whirl has been fixed. And you keep mentioning like its some suprise to everyone that I haven't logged in for quite some time. Why do you feel like you have to emphasize this to people given I say it frequently? Thanks for bringing us that massive revelation. Btw Nirgon hasn't logged in for several months! Here's another shock! Lot's of other people haven't either!

[CrystalBlue]

There's a grouping bonus that is classic, sure. But that doesn't mean you can't make more xp duo'ing.

I don't think you know how classic xp distribution systems work.



Currently there is a double xp (more then double xp at lower levels) flat xp bonus in place. Not Classic.


It would do more good divied up into an enchanced group bonus based on size of group.

Sure you can still go quad raptors, or duo or wtf ever you want. But it would HELP to encourage people to /gasp group and form in-game relationships on this server.

true/false?

My "nirgons working for cast" senses are tingling.

[SamwiseBanned]

There's a grouping bonus that is classic, sure. But that doesn't mean you can't make more xp duo'ing.

I don't think you know how classic xp distribution systems work.

Who says I won't quad burning woods instead of the over camped raptors? If I have to gate out from raptors from a gank, that's kind of a super pain in the ass waiting for the boat again.

You're a very narrow minded person and most people think you're an idiot for it. I'll clue you in there. The whole "rerolling" forum accounts from Trollborn thing after posting a good bye and obviously being the same person. Do you think anyone at all takes you seriously?

I said *I hope* whirl has been fixed. And you keep mentioning like its some suprise to everyone that I haven't logged in for quite some time. Why do you feel like you have to emphasize this to people given I say it frequently? Thanks for bringing us that massive revelation. Btw Nirgon hasn't logged in for several months! Here's another shock! Lot's of other people haven't either!

The point is whirl/root spam doesn't happen but you seem to think it does. Changes have been made that you have yet to experience. Log in, experience some pvp, then develop an opinion instead of theorycrafting from the bench.

[Zereh]

DR/FR/CR/PR are all scaled in same way as MR and yet not one peep is heard about any of them being broken.

[SamwiseBanned]

DR/FR/CR/PR are all scaled in same way as MR and yet not one peep is heard about any of them being broken.

Apparently root is killing more people than nukes/dots

[Nirgon]

Currently there is a double xp (more then double xp at lower levels) flat xp bonus in place. Not Classic.



I've also stated time and again that I was totally against such a massive xp bonus. I said that it would help the lowbie population and it certainly did for a while. You even got some recruits out of it.

[CrystalBlue]

last time i logged on this shit box i fought some druid and some ranger in unrest for a while and they literally just rooted me over and over

resisted maybe 2 out of 7 times

p.s. i had somewhere between 80 and 90 MR

yeah im sure. were you wearing your high resist patchwork leather, or your super resisto cloth shirt?

http://i.imgur.com/wSAiW.png

[SamwiseBanned]

last time i logged on this shit box i fought some druid and some ranger in unrest for a while and they literally just rooted me over and over

resisted maybe 2 out of 7 times

p.s. i had somewhere between 80 and 90 MR

Sorry you didn't survive a 2v1 encounter /gasps. In all honesty I bet you didn't even have that much mr. SS or it didn't happen. Funny you fought that combo because I fought mayor and goku for hours. Rarely did their roots land at 72 mr. I was more concerned with arrows going through walls.

[Nirgon]

The point is whirl/root spam doesn't happen but you seem to think it does.

So why are you so against these changes?

Mellow link that afk Cwall picture again please. We love it so much.

I have some goodies of you bro (and its not afk in Grobb or wtfever that Lulz thing you have is), I'll post them in RNF when I get home :). Some real suicide watch material.

[CrystalBlue]

I've also stated time and again that I was totally against such a massive xp bonus. I said that it would help the lowbie population and it certainly did for a while. You even got some recruits out of it.

You did not address my question.

Would that bonus do more good as it is now (druids get to 50 faster, non-soloers quit by 15) or as a group based bonus that gets larger the bigger the group is?

Which helps to foster community and relationships more?

My nirgon is a Cast agent senses tingling off the charts.

[SamwiseBanned]

Take the amount of MR given in these posts and subtract it by 40 to get their actual mr.

[Nirgon]

Maybe a group bonus would have been better.

I think your problem is more to do with people in your guild being greedy. The solo bonus, get this, helps new people out a lot who can't find anyone to group with. Hard to imagine for you I'm sure.

If you think a group bonus would help more? Okay. Like you say, I don't log in and I'm certainly not in your guild to see how much you snub each other.

[SamwiseBanned]

So why are you so against these changes?

Mellow link that afk Cwall picture again please. We love it so much.

I have some goodies of you bro (and its not afk in Grobb or wtfever that Lulz thing you have is), I'll post them in RNF when I get home :). Some real suicide watch material.

These changes are not needed. Sure the current system could be tweaked a little but if you think 50 mr should make you cc immune you have no idea how easy this is to obtain. No sacrifice to dps is not balanced

[Nirgon]

How about wanting to wear other resist pieces than just maxing MR in every slot to prevent something stupid like root..

I think I know how easy it is to obtain 50 magic resist, I also know that's how a classic system worked. It was great, I played it a lot.

[SamwiseBanned]

Who has the best geared melees on server who are already immune to root if they actually wear there pvp gear? I guess it'll take Nizzar to wipe a raid for people to get a clue about balance.

[Nirgon]

Yeah 1 monk is going to wipe a raid (without a train).

I think I'm done arguing with you two.

[Nirgon]

Yeah and they're complaining about how bad it is to start a melee here too lols.

(They complain about me being an item loot proponent wizard but check out the druid and enchanter right here)

More like selfish interests trying to force people to group for their own benefit. Need to work on respect and a team mentality.

[SamwiseBanned]

Item loot will kill server that's why I'm against it. If I thought it would bring numbers I'd be for it. My Druids gear is shit, I would only have to gain from item loot. Again server health and balance is greater than my own personal vision of eq classic. If it were up to me this server would be hard coded teams with SZ ruleset

[SamwiseBanned]

Also with item loot you'll have less pvp to the death and more bag your shit and run.

[mindsculptor]

I can't believe how much push there is to make mr spells even more worthless. Unless I am fighting some at least 2 levels lower than me my mez/whirl/root almost never land even after I tash them. I tried to mez a yellow con naked caster who I stripped and tashed yesterday and was resisted all 4 attempts.

[Nirgon]

If the SZ rule set went in? I, like everyone who isn't a true moran, would go team evil. Because we know who will be the overpopulated team, crowd the best dungeons and therefore completely control raid targets.

Sure you'd have the hipster "goods/neuts"... but lols.

Maybe I could be proven wrong but, safe money is on no.

You are probably afraid to lose your items, understandable... but there's lots of great no drop gear to be had and Nihilum isn't poop socking fear respawns in full force by any means.

It creates a fun element of risk and reward. Yes people will be ganked. If they lose something of value? Well there's the risk. Maybe they kill someone for an item in their time playing too and its all OK. Maybe they can't kill anyone and this is just completely terrifying for them.

To the above enchanter, do you know how good mana sieve / theft of thought are? Do you think its more mana efficient to drain a healers mana through that method or by trying to win the nuke/heal war?

Not to mention enchanters are awesome w/ item loot enabled. You'll get real fights out of people in gear and smoke the scaredy cats.

Mez did feel classic here I have to say, but maybe I'm wrong.

[SamwiseBanned]

If the SZ rule set went in? I, like everyone who isn't a true moran, would go team evil. Because we know who will be the overpopulated team, crowd the best dungeons and therefore completely control raid targets.

Sure you'd have the hipster "goods/neuts"... but lols.

Maybe I could be proven wrong but, safe money is on no.

You are probably afraid to lose your items, understandable... but there's lots of great no drop gear to be had and Nihilum isn't poop socking fear respawns in full force by any means.

It creates a fun element of risk and reward. Yes people will be ganked. If they lose something of value? Well there's the risk. Maybe they kill someone for an item in their time playing too and its all OK. Maybe they can't kill anyone and this is just completely terrifying for them.

To the above enchanter, do you know how good mana sieve / theft of thought are? Do you think its more mana efficient to drain a healers mana through that method or by trying to win the nuke/heal war?

Not to mention enchanters are awesome w/ item loot enabled. You'll get real fights out of people in gear and smoke the scaredy cats.

Mez did feel classic here I have to say, but maybe I'm wrong.

I am not sayin SZ would be any different than here. I mean Nihilum is basically Ruin however maybe poopsockers like Zereh/Arzak (High Elves) and others might have kept their race choices. Here one guild can literally recruit the entire server (came really close at one point.) But I am not going to argue teams because it has nothing to do with balancing resists. Youll probably never get our item loot and I'll never get a hard coded teams server :(

edit: now that i think about Nihilum playerbase, the majority certainly isnt evil. perhaps a balanced SZ server could have been had here :)

[CrystalBlue]

How about wanting to wear other resist pieces than just maxing MR in every slot to prevent something stupid like root..

I think I know how easy it is to obtain 50 magic resist, I also know that's how a classic system worked. It was great, I played it a lot.

Did you have a rainbow shield, phara dar robe , a crown of rile, and full lussterous on live classic?

No? then stfu, you have no clue what is up on this server and what hell you would unleash if you made half the meeles on the server (the ones all in Nihilum) even stronger.

[Nirgon]

No.. no.. I didn't, not personally. But I did have things like an epic and mana robe. Epics seem pretty comparable to the VP weps. That black rock maul might be pretty overkill, but then there's the Tantor's Tusk in Velious so. Going on VP versus Velious..

There was some VP loot floating around on RZ, didn't seem to bother me because...

I did play during Velious! Lots! I gotta say the loots were pretty good from Sleepers Tomb, deep Kael, and ToV. But what do I know about anything according to you right :)?

[CrystalBlue]

If the SZ rule set went in? I, like everyone who isn't a true moran, would go team evil.


I was on the neutral team on SZ AND a meele.

Some of us like a challenge. Get on my level.

[gloinz]

Did you have a rainbow shield, phara dar robe , a crown of rile, and full lussterous on live classic?

No? then stfu, you have no clue what is up on this server and what hell you would unleash if you made half the meeles on the server (the ones all in Nihilum) even stronger.

the cool thing bout classic resists vs melees is running away/juking like barry sanders makes them useless still

[CrystalBlue]

No.. no.. I didn't

But I did play during Velious and I gotta say the loots were pretty good from Sleepers Tomb, deep Kael, and ToV. But what do I know about anything according to you right :)?

Server is in Kunark. So yes, you dont know what is up here. Arent you the one who insisted that resist debuffs debuffed wtih a 70 percent bonus on live just the other day?

Its true, you DONT know anything about anything. plz stfu and let the knowledegeable ones talk.

[SamwiseBanned]

not sure what Velious has to do with the current resist system and gear distro. did RZ comprise of a guild with more than half the server population farming up eq classic without being contested?

[Nirgon]

Trollborn, I fought people in full suits of Kael armor with primals.

Sorry you're in tears regarding this late breaking news. Calm down some.

Yes I was able to kill them as a wizard. Who knows how though? I must have super powers.


He's saying big loots will unleash havoc. I felt fine.

I raided on a classic pvp server, very hardcore. More than I can say for the two people jumping down my throat and jumping to wild, baseless conclusions.

[SamwiseBanned]

You mean the class best built for ganking ganked someone? Please tell me more. I bet you enjoyed manaburn too and considered it fair and balanced.

[Nirgon]

No, I didn't play much into Luclin on the wizard.

Again, jumping to wild baseless conclusions. The tears must be welling up.

Click my sig for the dates I played. I'm sure they pretty solidly conclude that I know what I'm talking about.

The epic wizard in my forum avatar is winking at you right now.

70 percent bonus on live just the other day?


Eh, I admitted I was wrong when I checked back on it. Grats on reading a patch note, you know everything now. Could have fooled me after my run ins with Mellowyellow when I was playing here though. I thought to myself, this guy has no idea what he's doing.

[CrystalBlue]

You are dead wrong about the gear situation on this server.

"a little bit of VP gear floating around on rallos"

lol you fool, go ask the blue server how much VP gear they got floating around, and now imagine how long it will take Nihilum to start looting that stuff on alts here on our 80 pop server.

"oh rainbow shield is rare!"

lol fool, I can count on one hand the number of nihilum meeles that DONT have it.

"oh but I fought people in velious gear!"

Great, tell us all about it when velious hits.

And you have the nerve to want "classic" resists and spell immunity? Yeah so half the meeles on this server (the nihilum half) become 100 percent resistant to all things arcane.

"but i killed folks on classic!!!"

yeah, you cherry picked scrubs in noob gear on a 2k pop server on live. on a wizard, great job. Try that here. Actually thats why you dont bother to log in. Come try to gank a nihilum meele and tell me how it goes. Try some more after they become immune to all CC like you want them to be lolz. Talk about griefed off the server in record time.

That would be your fate, son.

[SamwiseBanned]

Do you really think your online rpg resume from 13 years ago gives you a free pass to talk nonsense? I am not impressed that you hold former pixels on a pedestal. If you cannot grasp the fact that the metagame from 13 years ago on live and the metagame played today on r99 are vastly different then you cannot be helped nor can you come to a conclusion/solution to how resists should be balanced.

[Nirgon]

I wouldn't call a lot of the people I killed scrubs lol. Velious loot is superior to VP loot and I was fine in a classic system. Nuff said.

[mindsculptor]

To the above enchanter, do you know how good mana sieve / theft of thought are? Do you think its more mana efficient to drain a healers mana through that method or by trying to win the nuke/heal war?



ToT is amazing, but in group v group pvp I feel I should try to provide some CC. I am not really complaining about the current system, if mez/root landed easily then I agree it would make casters too powerful, but the fact is that they do not land easily at all. In fact it is so hard to land that Nirgon thinks I am an awful chanter for bothering to cast mez instead of just mana draining folks.

My point is just that it is already very hard to land mr based spells we do not need greater resists. I also am against a magic number that makes you immune. Resists do not work like this in PvE, you can have best in slot magic resist gear for every slot and there is still a small chance that a dragon will fear you. There should always be a positive gain to increasing your resists in my opinion. I accept that there should be diminishing marginal returns on this, but it should never be zero. Perhaps asymptotically approaching zero, but never actually be zero.

[Nirgon]

People in full resist gear are supposed to be hard to cc. Thus why I think resist gear should be a risk for an advantage.

Buff stacking and charm can work on mobs. Is beed. happy to share if you are interesy

[SamwiseBanned]

People in full resist gear are supposed to be hard to cc. Thus why I think resist gear should be a risk for an advantage.

Buff stacking and charm can work on mobs. Is beed. happy to share if you are interesy

People in FULL resist gear should be hard to CC. not being immune to CC with a tranix crown an 1 MR ring.

[SamwiseBanned]

A 40 bard with good instruments can easily give you an additional 100mr and selos for that matter. GMR adds another 55 plus you base 25 MR. So without a single piece of resist gear you can sport around 180 mr. yes its situational but its something you could easily take advantage of. you are trying to balance MR around 1v1, melee vs druid, outdoor situations which is redonkulous. btw Nihilum has 3 main bards that I can think of at the top of my head. Dekadenz, Punk, and Tune. Where the hell are these guys when Nizzar and Destin are getting greifed by root, I have no idea, but clearly they have the gear and the players to run around with CC immunity.

my fav part about the root/cc problem is there are counter measures beyond MR that can be taken as in pumice/crim pots, wands, and a novel of pvp tactics that can keep you from getting "mass rooted"

[Nirgon]

But you say it never lands anyway. Kinda stuck now aren't ya?

[Nirgon]

You really couldn't tell I was introducing a hypothetical situation? This makes me sad.

[CrystalBlue]

Everything you've said in this thread is hypothetical.

When you've actually logged in (in the last 6 months I mean) and become part of this community, plz post your findings/opinions.

[SamwiseBanned]

Nirgons entire arguement is based on theorycrafting and what he remembers to be classic and therefore "balanced"

But you say it never lands anyway. Kinda stuck now aren't ya?

who is this directed to? hard to follow ya man. one minute you are talking about quading raptors he next minute about velious loots. ADHD is strong with this one (not saying thats a bad thing).

[Nirgon]

Nice stretch trollborn, I expected you to say that. Unfortunately for you the classic item loot and resist systems weren't hypothetical or just thrown together and an afterthought.

Sam you say root never lands then you defend this change so strongly.

Guys, it isn't just me. Zyrino, Kringe, Destin and others are all classic players and agree with me. This isn't some system that I invented. It worked. If you think enchanters suck in pvp consider how useful melee haste buffs are or being able to fear pets? I'm done arguing with the two of you.

I'll log in for some classic EQ here when it is classic EQ here.

[SamwiseBanned]

Lolwut I said root doesn't land on people who actually weAr mr gear in pvp (tehruoh, wakawakA, ect). I never said it doesn't land but with my 72 mr I resist it more than half the time. Everyone is exaggerating it here not to mention the magic first cast theory based on 2 partials logs from destin. I'd be nice if this thread provided empirical data, SS, you know facts instead of tall tales discussing the balance issues instead of the "not classic" areguement

[Tycko]

This discussion from people who don't play here is lol. Yesterday we had some six v six PVP in seb. Was me, a wizard, sk, chanter, Mage, cleric vs cleric monk chanter wizard necro chanter. You would think from this discussion I was rooted the entire fight, mezzed and whirled. Except that didn't happen once. Btw the only people to survive? Monk and warrior. Intredasting

Since your trying to use this information to emphasize a point. I wanted to clarify a few things on this particular PVP engagement. The two survivors left in sebilis were a cleric and monk. The warrior survived by using a gate potion when he had frogs on him.

Not very "intredasting" if you ask me.

[SamwiseBanned]

So a sub 55 grp of red dawn zoned into seb. cleared to a group of 57+ nihi and killed you all/ kiched you out?

eehheeee

Was mass root involved?

[heartbrand]

Since your trying to use this information to emphasize a point. I wanted to clarify a few things on this particular PVP engagement. The two survivors left in sebilis were a cleric and monk. The warrior survived by using a gate potion when he had frogs on him.

Not very "intredasting" if you ask me.

The cleric had to gate in the original encounter after being near death and came back @ the end when it was only me and you. Yes, I had PVE aggro so I had to leave @ that point of time. I'd also point out that our members were in their low 50's, the cleric had 20m and the enchanter, Arbie, was actually completely OOM, but yet Cocaine / Zozo / Action / mindsculptor or whoever, all were dirtnapped, fallen forced to flee. Anyway, the only point in even mentioning the encounter wasn't to get into a dick measuring contest, but to point out that with all of that CC that you guys had, I amazingly was not rooted or mezzed the entire fight.

[Yukahwa]

If resists were classic, ie immune to root at 50-60 mr, it would be kinda cool.

=

What the world? In olden days, if you had 100MR unbuffed, you were in decent shape as a level 10 rogue PK for backstabbing sitting casters at orc hilll.

50-60 was never adequate. Its what you ran with as a poor guy (2X 7svm bracers, bloodstained mantle, DRT and a shiny brass shield if you weren't dual wielding. It was certainly not enough to be anywhere near good to go. It was a good effort and might be enough to get you to a zone line.

Resists seem a little funny here, but things were never that easy.

[Nirgon]

Bitter pill to swallow.

Esp when I saw that and realized I would have to come forward, say it and agree with it.

:/

Root was in fact a non issue against players with any kind of resist buffs/gear in a classic system. It is known.

[Tycko]

The cleric had to gate in the original encounter after being near death and came back @ the end when it was only me and you. Yes, I had PVE aggro so I had to leave @ that point of time. I'd also point out that our members were in their low 50's, the cleric had 20m and the enchanter, Arbie, was actually completely OOM, but yet Cocaine / Zozo / Action / mindsculptor or whoever, all were dirtnapped, fallen forced to flee. Anyway, the only point in even mentioning the encounter wasn't to get into a dick measuring contest, but to point out that with all of that CC that you guys had, I amazingly was not rooted or mezzed the entire fight.

The point here is you don't have the facts, so stop putting out false information on our forums. The cleric didn't gate. That is why you accepted LnS, also funny that you don't want this to be a dick measuring yet your tone indicates otherwise.

[SamwiseBanned]

Unfortunately the 20+ posts I've read from safe house and wayback machine suggested mr have ranged from 100 to 140 minimum

[runlvlzero]

Vanilla WoW PvP Emulator >>>> THAT WAY...

Perfectly balanced, resists dont even matter at all, CC doesnt last long enough and is on a terribad CD. Also you can be one shotted just like here. Go play a rogue there and you will be able to just kidney punch and cheap shot your way to victory.

[Nirgon]

http://narwhaler.com/img/xm/l/ha-ha-ha-laughing-spiderman-XMlxX5.jpg


No item loot there either.

UO PvP and Rallos Zek lasted a month before item loot destroyed them, maybe just even a week or two.

[runlvlzero]

http://youtu.be/GGZmAHOLr_U <<< fixed shows you how to connect to the shard

This wonderful let's player was on this UO shard which i'm pretty sure is still going strong. Full item loot. Player crafting matters...

The nets are still rife with things like this. Though I never played UO so i havent a clue.

[Nirgon]

http://shadowbaneemulator.com/

[runlvlzero]

http://shadowbaneemulator.com/

Oh damn lol i'm impressed this project is still going i logged in and there was like 2 people on it like a year ago. I see lots of working links on the main page... thats always good

[Dullah]

ITT: a lot of people who have no classic experience, arguing against classic. Then a lot of people who have no experience on this server, arguing in favor of the poor resist system here.

"I never get rooted." "I never root people."

Thats because you don't play. I have more time played in the last 3 weeks than you probably do in the last 9 months combined. Of course you have no idea how things really work on this server.

[Nirgon]

http://youtu.be/GGZmAHOLr_U <<< fixed shows you how to connect to the shard

This wonderful let's player was on this UO shard which i'm pretty sure is still going strong. Full item loot. Player crafting matters...

The nets are still rife with things like this. Though I never played UO so i havent a clue.

Not only will I play here again if there are fixed resists and item loot is added (and xp loss removed), I will make one of these videos for this server.

In said video I will track down and slap the black out of Mellowyellow and Samwise for their insolence.

[tokso]

ITT: a lot of people who have no classic experience, arguing against classic. Then a lot of people who have no experience on this server, arguing in favor of the poor resist system here.

"I never get rooted." "I never root people."

Thats because you don't play. I have more time played in the last 3 weeks than you probably do in the last 9 months combined. Of course you have no idea how things really work on this server.

I play and root has rarely ever been a factor in any high level pvp encounter I've been in, on this server.

[SamwiseBanned]

ITT: a lot of people who have no classic experience, arguing against classic. Then a lot of people who have no experience on this server, arguing in favor of the poor resist system here.

"I never get rooted." "I never root people."

Thats because you don't play. I have more time played in the last 3 weeks than you probably do in the last 9 months combined. Of course you have no idea how things really work on this server.

Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one. Play better.

[Kringe]

ITT: a lot of people who have no classic experience, arguing against classic. Then a lot of people who have no experience on this server, arguing in favor of the poor resist system here.

"I never get rooted." "I never root people."

Thats because you don't play. I have more time played in the last 3 weeks than you probably do in the last 9 months combined. Of course you have no idea how things really work on this server.

Also Nulls sample size as quoted shows it against the spell *Root* itself.. Not against Engulfing Roots or anything along the druid/ranger root line.. Which in itself should be "more resisted" because of the dmg component, but here it lands way more than it should/ever did on live.


I'd love to see Null's same sample size with that root line tested.

[Nirgon]

Look out for Kringe (http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Kringe), I bet he misremembers how root worked too.

[SamwiseBanned]

You are talking to Destin lol

[SamwiseBanned]

Delicious tears from RZs B team. Got griefed off the server by root lol

[Kringe]

Nah cause my first toon... http://ralloszek.stephans.org/rz/playerhistory.php?player_name=Rigamortiz

Was never around during classic...

[Nirgon]

ITT classic end game pvp players laughing at Samwise and his little Safehouse post.

[SamwiseBanned]

Delicious tears from RZs B team. Got griefed off the server by root lol

[Kringe]

Delicious tears from RZs B team. Got griefed off the server by root lol

Tears from a Kid whom never played classic and clearly can't read what the front page of the own Emu Server he is playing on states..

I will post this for you..


Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward. Project 1999 is a free to play Emulated Everquest Server giving Players the opportunity to experience Classic EQ Once again, starting with the original 3 continents and a max level of 50, with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be. Project 1999 is the best and most popular classic Everquest experience.


Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999

I dont see where it says Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999



Thats what we all came here to do...

[SamwiseBanned]

How far did whining like a little bitch get you on RZ. Play better kid.

[Kringe]

How far did whining like a little bitch get you on RZ. Play better kid.

To the top... even was an orginal founder of Ascending Dawn.... Clearly no one remembers you in any shape or form from ANY PVP server anywhere....

Move along little bluebie... next?


Shhh.... Grownups are talking right now in this thread... Not young bucks who never actually played in 99..

[jdklaw]

Tears from a Kid whom never played classic and clearly can't read what the front page of the own Emu Server he is playing on states..

I will post this for you..


Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward. Project 1999 is a free to play Emulated Everquest Server giving Players the opportunity to experience Classic EQ Once again, starting with the original 3 continents and a max level of 50, with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be. Project 1999 is the best and most popular classic Everquest experience.


Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999

I dont see where it says Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999
Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was when NULL remembered it to be in 1999



Thats what we all came here to do...

well played

[Nirgon]

Samwise I dont know if anyone put in more time in classic EQ on Rallos than Kringe.

By Velious he had several raid geared 50 chars.

He main tanked for the one of the guilds that killed Sleeper, and the most progressed guild on the server.

You are fucking dumb lol.

[SamwiseBanned]

except they stated a custom resist system from the start. cant believe root bested the founder of AD. I heard RZ was a joke of a pvp server but I figured people on sz were just trollin. I dunno anymore.

[SamwiseBanned]

Samwise I dont know if anyone put in more time in classic EQ on Rallos than Kringe.

By Velious he had several raid geared 50 chars.

He main tanked for the one of the guilds that killed Sleeper, and the most progressed guild on the server.

You are fucking dumb lol.

cool sounds like a TON of pvp was had. You know feelings are hurt when RZ B team start stroking each other off. Bested by root lol

[Nirgon]

Of all the things not classic, the biggest thing that comes to my mind is not knowing wtf is going on.

I never even seen these items before let alone know they existed.

I miss feeling helpless and lost.



Haha oh my sides

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgQ7sgbMwhzovGTCOqaYFjSiupvrMh2 XqHDZOAIsxyE4tORFP9FVRMqLvm0w

[SamwiseBanned]

http://memecrunch.com/meme/99MJ/kringe/image.png

poor Kringe out of his element.

[Dullah]

Not even a good troll.

It wouldn't be "root" that bested him, because he doesn't even play. If anything, it would be Null that bested us all by imposing his unclassic system on us that imbalances what was already well balanced by the professionals over there at Verant.

[Kringe]

http://memecrunch.com/meme/99MJ/kringe/image.png

poor Kringe out of his element.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/99MX/samwise/image.png

Fixed this for you..

[SamwiseBanned]

Keep cryin like a bitch. PKing RZ's B team is pretty entertaining. Any other RZers wanna join the graveyard?

[Kringe]

except they stated a custom resist system from the start. cant believe root bested the founder of AD. I heard RZ was a joke of a pvp server but I figured people on sz were just trollin. I dunno anymore.

pvp server
pvp server
pvp server


I heard Samwise ..

Erollisi Marr Blue Server
Erollisi Marr Blue Server

Was where you could be found.... I will definitely take your experience from Erollisi Marr Blue Server over mine on Rallos Zek PVP Server anyday...

[Nirgon]

I miss feeling helpless and lost.



http://memearchive.net/memerial.net/3856/you-mad-bro-he-mad-son.jpg

[SamwiseBanned]

If only there was a way to resist root or somehow dispel it.

[SamwiseBanned]

http://i.imgur.com/bwzm7.jpg

[Nirgon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBe45Ep--kQ

Lord Nirgon in it for a few seconds. about half the resistance, maybe less.

BTW, for some reason the videos look like better quality than my gameplay lol


Aw didn't know you held me to such a high standard before. Did me telling you were wrong about classic resists hurt your little feelins? I think it did.

[SamwiseBanned]

I commend you for not exploiting dragons with your guild but you are far from right when it comes to balancing resists.

[Kringe]

except they stated a custom resist system from the start. cant believe root bested the founder of AD. I heard RZ was a joke of a pvp server but I figured people on sz were just trollin. I dunno anymore.


except they stated a active developer from the start
except they stated a bug fix system that actually was fixed from the start
except they stated listening to the community would be helpful from the start
except they stated blah blah blah. from the start

I see a trend here.... None of which was followed whatsoever...

And whos the one crying? Lol gtfo here..

[SamwiseBanned]

dude you are crying that someone let you play everquest on their server. lol someone put this kid in some pampers.

[Dullah]

Guy that never accomplished anything in EQ live, nor here, continues to troll about mechanics of a game without previous or even present experience with which to make the first educated suggestion.

The joys of red99 forums.

[Tycko]

How far did whining like a little bitch get you on RZ. Play better kid.

Not RnF, keep it civil. Seriously

Half the problems we have on this server come from people acting like 12 year olds.

[SamwiseBanned]

Guy that never accomplished anything in EQ live, nor here, continues to troll about mechanics of a game without previous or even present experience with which to make the first educated suggestion.

The joys of red99 forums.

Never considered the things I did on video games as accomplishments but more power to ya. When you decide to talk about balance instead of the good ol days lemme know.

[Kringe]

dude you are crying that someone let you play everquest on their server. lol someone put this kid in some pampers.

Crying... there's a distict different in "crying" and "addressing" issues that need/should have been addressed....

I suppose if we could purchase Skins, or Champions with Rogean Points this server would be alot different..

Free Server pun was intended...

[SamwiseBanned]

Cool when you want to discuss balance lemme know.

[tokso]

I like the parts where anyone implies EQ pvp was balanced and/or skillful, under any system ever, live or emu.

[gloinz]

I like the parts where anyone implies EQ pvp was balanced and/or skillful, under any system ever, live or emu.

i know chess isn't skillful either u can just memorize every possible combination of moves and win

[SamwiseBanned]

Good.

I ultimately trust you and Null to give us a good PvP server.

Null is not some jackass bluebie - he knows what he's doing with the resist system. And since I've played more red than 99% of this forum, here's the reality check for the handful of vocal whiners: a strictly-classic resist system is utter shit. Degree of severity dependent on the era (Kunark was the closest to "balanced"), and gives Hardcore Neckbeard Raid Player an overwhelming advantage because he spent 90 hours in the planes getting Blue Diamond Everything.

It's a shitty, unfair system. Melees get screwed initially. And then Rangers, Enchanters, Clerics all get fucked once everyone breaks the MR hard cap.

Custom resist system: deal with it.

[tokso]

i know chess isn't skillful either u can just memorize every possible combination of moves and win

the game where melees pretty much only have auto attack and casters cast so slow they can alt tab and browse the forums while casting a spell. definitely the pinnacle of skill here.

[Nirgon]

Is that why some guy in just plane of hate gear and a gator smash maul won the blue shaman botb? Because there's no skill involved?

[Nirgon]

Not RnF, keep it civil. Seriously

Half the problems we have on this server come from people acting like 12 year olds.

Don't mind Sam, he's lost and scared and has no idea what is going on.

[tokso]

can you try explaining the skill involved instead of citing some example with no explanation? the ridiculous RNG and lack of options in this game don't leave much to skill. gogo auto attack.

[Nirgon]

See if you can find the shaman botb video on blue. I don't want to explain everything about EQ PvP :(. Someone beat all the guys from blue in VP gear.