Vayder & Nirgon want to get along. Use Lucy data for all spell resists?

[Vayder]

Enough of the moaning about numbers we don't have access to. Can we all just get along and rally under the banner of using current Lucy resist values for every classic spell?


Makes everyone immune to root at 51mr while still making casters viable although they'll have to use different spells than the ones spammed currently:


Necro
Lifetaps - essentially unresistable
Fire Line - essentially unresistable
Cessation of Cor - need 197 dr to be immune
Envenomed Bolt - need 175 pr to be immune
Scent of Terris - need 181 pr to be immune

Shaman
Malo - unresistable
Bane of Nife - 197pr to be immune
Pox of Bertox - 197dr to be immune

Wizard
Lures - essentially unresistable

Magician
Mala - unresistable
Malosini - 197mr to be immune

Enchanter
Tashanian - unresistable
Rapture - essentially unresistable
Asphyxiate - 197mr to be immune
Largarn's Lamentation - 197mr to be immune
Cripple - 181 mr to be immune

Druid
Winged Death - essentially unresistable
Breath of Ro - 181 fr to be immune

[SamwiseBanned]

Here is a chart for 'Root'. You can ignore the low and high partial lines, since they don't have any bearing on roots.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7751891/root_chart.jpg

And here is the results of 20,000 simulated casts against 120MR:

Spell Name: Root Resist Mod: 25
Casts: 20000 Full Hits: 0 Partials 2305 Resists: 17695
Resists Percent: 88.47% Average Partial: 38.18
Average Damage: 0.00

+ Vayders post =

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/JieXiang007/Combat-Arms_20.jpg

[Nirgon]

Scent of Terris, right there lol. That shit was about impossible to land. 181 to be immune lulsies.

I'm reading the rest of your values and drumming my fingers here...

Where'd you get the values for root and snare being 51? I mean that does sound about right. I could land roots on people who were literally completed naked and ungeared on classic, except warriors who'd get naked resists pretty well..

This list doesn't look terrible as above... just keep in mind there were pvp resist calcs that are completely different from pve resist calcs.

I'm not saying the fire/cold and everything in between is PERFECT here either. But it's not glaringly broken. If the major problems like the ones we keep harping on are fixed? Yeah I'd be more interested in really getting down to the nitty gritty.

I used immobolize as an example when I was given some classic resist values and logic when I asked someone who had that code. Let me see what it said and follow up.

[Vayder]

Where'd you get the values for root and snare being 51? I mean that does sound about right. I could land roots on people who were literally completed naked and ungeared on classic, except warriors who'd get naked resists pretty well..

This list doesn't look terrible as above... just keep in mind there were pvp resist calcs that are completely different from pve resist calcs.
.

As per title of thread - Lucy data. All numbers using pvpresistbase, pvpresistmax, pvpresistcalc.

[Vayder]

For example, Root:

pvpbase: 50
pvpmax: 33
pvpresistcalc: 101

So assuming even level you'd need 51mr to be immune or assuming max level difference you'd need 68mr.

[SamwiseBanned]

Just logged on my naked lvl 40 Bard. He has MM drum. With Elemental Rhythms + Guardian Rythms, I went from 25 MR to 129. So with 0 MR gear I have over a 90% chance to resist root. Had a few pieces of MR gear which a lot of best in slot pieces do, my MR would easily be over 160. Throw a GMR and im 200+ MR without even trying. Are you saying there is absolutely no point in this?

[Nirgon]

Here is the true to life, honest to God, exact fucking value and calcs for Immobolize and how the calculations should be determined. What I don't have / probably couldn't get is the algorithm that generates their "roll to hit" -- I don't know the seed for the random or .. really too much in that department. This is exactly how it functioned:

Undisputable:


Spell: Immobilize (39)
ID: 132
Resist: Magic, 0 (standard resists apply)
PVP resist(base): 50
PVP resist(max): -5
pvpresistcalc: 101

result for lvl 39 enc vs. lvl 49 Player:
calc is 101
base is -5
result : does NOT lands, 101 is number to beat but has no resist... so the target is deemed 95 resist points (-5 due to level difference)

1.) target is 10 levels lower, -5 is their starting point. so they would need a 106 Magic resist to outright resist the spell
2.) target is 10 levels higher, 50 is their starting point, they would need a resist of 51 to outright resist the spell.


This makes sense to any classic player too. I didn't make these numbers up, I can post them for other spells. Shit, they might even match Lucy, I haven't compared. What it also proves is that level does in fact have a lot to do with how successful spells are to land.

Now before you say "where's the randomness!".. the above *only* shows what level to deem "no this spell can never land on me as many times as you cast it". If you don't meet those values, you can still attempt to pass saving rolls. As I outlined above, I don't how how that works exactly ... but I do have this. If you don't meet that exact value:


with the exception of unresistable spells, in PVP there is a 10.5% chance to resist the spell if you do not meet the saving value.
conversely there is a 5.25% chance of the spell landing anyway.
with damaging spells the power of them or "how hard they hit" if they land is directly correlated to how close they came to the number. minimum of 25% dmg.

so if the spell lands it does at least 25% dmg (partial resists).
if 75%+ of the "to beat" number is reached and the spell lands then 25% dmg is incured.

these partial resists come in 25% of spell dmg, 50% and 75%


Before Samwise or Trollborn chime in, I'd invite any classic player to come in here and say "no that sounds horribly wrong" or "no! it should never be the case that a certain value makes it so a certain spell can't land!"

This is how it worked kids. I'm not interested in retarded opinions. I'm interested in people who I know played on the classic pvp servers to try and knock this down.

The above completely destroys any thing you or Null are going to post about "resists are fine because I have 128 mr and can still get rooted". That shit is real dumb son. I'm not saying Null is dumb and I appreciate his efforts to put an actual system in the game, it's something I'm sure took him a while and he did his best. What I've supplied here (oh and yes I can get more) is the guide lines for him or whoever picks up his work to implement a classic PvP system.

You're welcome!

[SamwiseBanned]

so pushing your MR past 120 was completely useless in classic?

[Vayder]

Just logged on my naked lvl 40 Bard. He has MM drum. With Elemental Rhythms + Guardian Rythms, I went from 25 MR to 129. So with 0 MR gear I have over a 90% chance to resist root. Had a few pieces of MR gear which a lot of best in slot pieces do, my MR would easily be over 160. Throw a GMR and im 200+ MR without even trying. Are you saying there is absolutely no point in this?

If we use current lucy values for everything it makes debuffing far more valuable. While 200+ seems invincible once you get Mala'd and Tash'd if you then get malo'd you're looking at -163mr. So you're 200mr is no longer even root immune much less other more difficult spells to resist.

[Nirgon]

Depends on the spell.

[Nirgon]

To answer your question more directly Sam? For some spells? Yes to resist them you didn't need any more than a certain amount (of course given levels in between).

[Nizzarr]

Along with these, the pvp +50% on resist debuffs should be added. so lvl 57 tash removes 60 instead of 40 and lvl 60 malo removes like 90.

Perfect pvp resists there!

[CrystalBlue]

Along with these, the pvp +50% on resist debuffs should be added. so lvl 57 tash removes 60 instead of 40 and lvl 60 malo removes like 90.

Perfect pvp resists there!

Did not happen till late Velious, Nirgon would not aprove.

RIGHT Nirgon?

[Vayder]

Along with these, the pvp +50% on resist debuffs should be added. so lvl 57 tash removes 60 instead of 40 and lvl 60 malo removes like 90.

Perfect pvp resists there!

Agreed, that's what I was using in my response to Sam earlier. I thought +50% to debuff was in here already is it not?

[Nirgon]

Actually I think it was a needed element for some classes.

If I had to play by P99's rules? It would go in during Velious.

If you want what I thinks sense? Put it in with the other resist fixes.

Wizard has no meaningful unresistable debuffs either :(. Why would I want this!

[Nirgon]

Think makes sense*

:P trying to work too.

[Vayder]

Actually I think it was a needed element for some classes.

If you want what I think makes sense? Put it in with the other resist fixes.


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxmFwkUFQp2LcygPo5iuVLhnJZY57lY DXb5ifyZmOLKlpuUt6svA

We're making this happen! Forces are coming together under the banner of current Lucy resists for all classic spells. With all our forces combined we can be the hope and change this server needs.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii74/egil/Bethechange.jpg

[Nirgon]

I dunno if it's going to happen or not, but I did get excited when Rogean mentioned he'd take a crack at it.

And yeah anyone who comes to the light and wants a classic Everquest server can instantly become a pal regardless of past offenses.

[SamwiseBanned]

So a rogue running around with epic and once piece of MR gear should be immune to root. Don't believe it, dont remember it that way, and further more there are no written accounts of it.

[Vayder]

So a rogue running around with epic and once piece of MR gear should be immune to root. Don't believe it, dont remember it that way, and further more there are no written accounts of it.

Assuming you aren't tashed, mala'd, malo'd, denon's bereavemented, curtailing chanted, etc.

[hagard]

So a rogue running around with epic and once piece of MR gear should be immune to root. Don't believe it, dont remember it that way, and further more there are no written accounts of it.

I used to have a twink low lvl rog on live and at 120mr I was damn near immune to all mr spells, so yes

[jdklaw]

Makes everyone immune to root at 51mr lols

[SamwiseBanned]

Makes everyone immune to root at 51mr lols

[Vayder]

You know you could like use a debuff or maybe cast a higher level spell than root...

lulz (did I do that right?)

[SamwiseBanned]

Duress you are too far gone to be saved. The moment you went from Vayder to Duress, I knew the pixels had already taken your soul. RIP Vayder, you will be missed.